Emotional Support for Recent Early Retirees

DogGone

Recycles dryer sheets
Joined
Mar 25, 2019
Messages
96
So, I’m not even a year into ER in my early 50s. Things were going great... now this.

Even after the drop, my SWR is about 2.8% and lower when kids leave and SS/pension kicks in.

I’m good still right? A bad sequence of returns can be absorbed?

I’m sure there are many new retirees here who need a hug.
 
Stay the course.
Remember that the 4% SWR guidance for retirement readiness is based on the worst scenarios in history, which include the 60's stagflation, the great depression, etc.

Another reference is the 2000 year retiree was hit with the stock market losing monies for 3 years at the start of retirement, plus another bear market in 2008 and from a historical sequence of market performance, this retiree is still doing fine and especially fine if the WR% is 3%.

I retired 2.5 years ago and the net portfolio increase is under 5%, so SORR is still very much in play.
Take a deep breath and continue enjoying life.
 
Not RE yet but still planning 2020.... 100% equities. Went through the dot-com and 2008 which gives a lot of perspective (and were a lot more fun since I was in accumulation mode!). SWR rate calculations take into consideration lots of ugly years from the past.


Better yet, for some more perspective after this crazy bull we had, pull up a longer chart and look back to where the market was at this level last...we are about where we where in October. How did you feel in October? Why should you feel different (I forget what the doom and gloom scenario was then but I'm sure there was some reason the market was supposed to crash)? What is known about COVID-19 is priced into todays prices (along with a lot of speculation).



Certainly, when times are rocky, it is good to look at your spending and if it makes you feel better, defer some of the discretionary. Doing so may help if you feel that you need to "do something" as spending is something in your control so you don't do something silly (and costly) with your investment strategy because of something outside of your control (short term market performance).


Breathe in, breathe out, turn off the news and don't look at your portfolio.... enjoy your day... Some of us have to w*rk today! (for a bit longer)


FLsunFIRE
 
I know the feeling, I retired in 2007. I did try and put off any big discretionary purchases for a while.

I figured I’d cut back before I would go back to work.
 
Not RE yet but still planning 2020.... 100% equities. Went through the dot-com and 2008 which gives a lot of perspective (and were a lot more fun since I was in accumulation mode!). SWR rate calculations take into consideration lots of ugly years from the past.


Better yet, for some more perspective after this crazy bull we had, pull up a longer chart and look back to where the market was at this level last...we are about where we where in October. How did you feel in October? Why should you feel different (I forget what the doom and gloom scenario was then but I'm sure there was some reason the market was supposed to crash)? What is known about COVID-19 is priced into todays prices (along with a lot of speculation).



Certainly, when times are rocky, it is good to look at your spending and if it makes you feel better, defer some of the discretionary. Doing so may help if you feel that you need to "do something" as spending is something in your control so you don't do something silly (and costly) with your investment strategy because of something outside of your control (short term market performance).


Breathe in, breathe out, turn off the news and don't look at your portfolio.... enjoy your day... Some of us have to w*rk today! (for a bit longer)


FLsunFIRE



Yes agree with FLsunFIRE! I focus on the income and not on my paper net worth.............
 
So, I’m not even a year into ER in my early 50s. Things were going great... now this.

Even after the drop, my SWR is about 2.8% and lower when kids leave and SS/pension kicks in.

I’m good still right? A bad sequence of returns can be absorbed?

I’m sure there are many new retirees here who need a hug.

3 years in, 60. My WR this year was 2.7% and I do not feel threatened at present.
 
I was laid off in 2008 and decided to call it retirement. This was during the great recession, stocks were plummeting, financial institutions collapsing, the big auto makers were in trouble, every day seemed to bring more bad news and it was kind of scary. But I stuck with it, and have been living entirely off of my savings ever since. My investment portfolio is now more than twice what it was when I was laid off. My only regret is not having retired sooner!
 
Yeah, you're good. We all get lulled into almost a decade of great returns, start to think corrections and bear markets are a thing of the past. Statistics predict you're good. Stay the course. What ya gonna do? Go back to work? Now's the time folks close to the edge of SWR might want to pull the reins in a bit on discretionary but other than that, it's all OK. I gave up even glancing at the the coronavirus threads quite a while ago.
 
We just retired 2 months ago. Great timing! :facepalm:

In all seriousness, although I don't like to see the market dive like this, I'm not losing sleep at night over it - yet! We have 3 years of cash saved so that we don't have to draw on equities during a down market. That certainly helps quite a bit. Also, we can withdraw from our bond fund in DH's 401K if needed, and it's holding its own so far. We also have a low withdrawal rate overall, thanks to DH working longer than really necessary, expecting a pension & SS in the future, and living way below our means.

I have the jitters, but not too bad. It is what it is and we planned the best we could. Focus on what reassures you. And thanks for starting this thread!
 
Just run FIRECALC to see all the corrections that have taken place showing 4% WR was 95% safe. Just look at what the market did before and after 1987, 2000, 2008-09 and how those who did nothing fared. Odds are you’ll be fine based on your WR etc., some/many here who retired just before 2008 can tell you...
 
I’m at 70% Equities and was about to go to 50% Equities.... do I still do that? At this pace (futures down another 3% before the bell) the market is going to do it for me.
 
We have 3 years of cash saved so that we don't have to draw on equities during a down market.

This is our strategy too. We're holding a a bit more even, and that's our fully loaded spend - which will have less travel this year...Much as I hate to the total numbers decrease, it's not a loss until you sell it as one.
 
Stay the course.
Remember that the 4% SWR guidance for retirement readiness is based on the worst scenarios in history, which include the 60's stagflation, the great depression, etc.

Another reference is the 2000 year retiree was hit with the stock market losing monies for 3 years at the start of retirement, plus another bear market in 2008 and from a historical sequence of market performance, this retiree is still doing fine and especially fine if the WR% is 3%.

I retired 2.5 years ago and the net portfolio increase is under 5%, so SORR is still very much in play.
Take a deep breath and continue enjoying life.

Good advice. I'd also add that it definitely helps to focus on percentages, rather than dollar amounts. I had hit a new peak on February 19, but 9 days later, was down about $224,000. For comparison, that's about what I lost, peak-to-trough, during the Great Recession! But, on a percentage basis, back then I had lost about 51%. This time, it was only around 11.4%.

As for that 2000-2002 period, I've run numbers based on my actual returns, to see how I would have fared, if I had retired at the end of 1999. It was shaping up to be a failure cycle for me for sure, at 4%. At 3%, it was below the original amount as of the end of 2019, but still on a good track to make it to the end of a 30 year retirement.

BUT, I recently realized a few flaws in my calculations. First off, since I'm still working, I've been invested a lot more aggressively, so I got hit harder during those downturns. If I was retired, I would have been invested a bit more moderately. Also, my overall balance back then was much smaller, so additional investments, depending on the time of the year, time of the month even, had some sway over those actual returns.

For instance, at the end of 1999, my portfolio was only $37,135. By the end of 2000, I was up to $57,238. BUT, I had sunk in another $22,566 over the course of the year, so those additional investments definitely had some sway.

By the end of 2001, I was up to $59,592. But I had invested another $22,606. And I distinctly remember investing a pretty big amount in March/April of 2001, when the market was actually up. In fact, I hit a new all-time high that May. But, when things crashed, that chunk that was invested near the high probably hurt me, percentage-wise.

If I was already retired, I wouldn't be adding more money to the portfolio, unless I got an inheritance. So, that would probably lessen the percentage drop I actually took during that timeframe.

By the time the Great Recession came around, I had a much larger portfolio. I was around $422K when it peaked in October 2007. In all of 2008, I added another $30,732, so that wasn't enough to sway the overall percentage as much.

And now, I had peaked at around $2.048M as of February 19. There's no way any additional investments that I make have that much pull, over the percentage. I max out my Roth IRA, but I do that by pulling from an after-tax account, so that's just a transfer, not a net investment. With my contribution and the company match, I'll probably put around $24K into the 401k.

So, I have a feeling that if I was retired, and we had a direct repeat of the 1999+ cycle, I would do better than my calculation had suggested.
 
We’re not even in a bear market! What’s all the fuss?
Okay, I felt like I got a gut punch early on when things first went south, but if you look at it as percentages, it really isn’t all that bad.
 
I’m at 70% Equities and was about to go to 50% Equities.... do I still do that? At this pace (futures down another 3% before the bell) the market is going to do it for me.

Twice my AA was tested and found over optimistic. From 80/20 to 70/30 finally to 60/40.
Both times when I realized I was more aggressive than I was comfortable with I waited it out till the S&P was back to the high then changed my AA. That worked out and I'd suggest you try to hold off too. Why sell when it's already down.
As to the OP, I like to look at how many years of expenses are covered by cash, cds, and high quality bonds. At 70/30 and a 2.8 WR you're probably set for 10 years+. Try not to sweat it.
 
Some posts here seem off? When stocks fall (relative to other asset classes), re-balancing would suggest buying more stocks. But when stocks fall, most people are (historically wrong for the long run) inclined to reduce their portfolio stock allocation - that's the opposite of any "re-balancing." Faced with a market pullback, that's more likely panic selling and changing AA.
 
We’re not even in a bear market! What’s all the fuss?
Okay, I felt like I got a gut punch early on when things first went south, but if you look at it as percentages, it really isn’t all that bad.

It's likely far from over, though. Like the OP said I believe he's a new retiree like me so sequence of return risk. If you've been retired awhile, no problem. Also I know a lot of people are really well off here so nothing fazes them. Those of us that are a little more lean retired have to worry a bit.
 
It's likely far from over, though. Like the OP said I believe he's a new retiree like me so sequence of return risk. If you've been retired awhile, no problem. Also I know a lot of people are really well off here so nothing fazes them. Those of us that are a little more lean retired have to worry a bit.
Worry fine, perfectly understandable. But then what?

I wasn't retired in 2008, but I distinctly remember wondering when the pullback would end. Thankfully I'd been through 1987 and 2000 fully invested, and knew not to panic. Lessened the worry in 2008, and now...we've been through this many times. Best to you.
 
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We have 3 years of cash saved so that we don't have to draw on equities during a down market.

This is our strategy too. We're holding a a bit more even, and that's our fully loaded spend - which will have less travel this year...Much as I hate to the total numbers decrease, it's not a loss until you sell it as one.


I am doing a similar strategy. I did not choose to retire until I had enough cash saved so that I would not be forced to sell equities before I decided to take SS. At retirement it was about 6 years. But we have been spending less that we thought (and we have been trying to blow that dough :)) so at this rate some might say we have "too much" cash. But in times like these, having "too much" cash is a comfort. :)
 
We’re not even in a bear market! What’s all the fuss?

^^^ This.

After a long bull market, people get complacent and think it will keep going up forever. When experienced investors like the late Bogle told people to temper their expectation, they said he did not know what he was talking about. He never did say to sell, only to not expect double-digit returns year after year.

I still have plenty of stocks, and still keep my eyes peeled for opportunities. Not yet buying though.
 
It's likely far from over, though. Like the OP said I believe he's a new retiree like me so sequence of return risk. If you've been retired awhile, no problem. Also I know a lot of people are really well off here so nothing fazes them. Those of us that are a little more lean retired have to worry a bit.

Yeah, there probably will be more turmoil before this is over. I had actually hit my FI number earlier in the year. While I'm still working, which helps dampen the blows, I was hoping to pull the plug around April 2, 2021. So, depending on how rough this patch is, I might be tempted to push that back.

While that's not nearly as rough as being just-retired and seeing the market get shaky, it's still got me a bit annoyed.
 
As to the OP, I like to look at how many years of expenses are covered by cash, cds, and high quality bonds. At 70/30 and a 2.8 WR you're probably set for 10 years+. Try not to sweat it.
+1
I'm at 50/50 and have enough cash, CD, short term bonds to ride ot the next 7 years before looking at intermediate our bond funds for funds. In 7 years I'll be 70 and just starting my SS.

OP you are fine, it's just the first correction we've had lately. Is this the first since you gained your freedom? Relax, your plan is going to be tested or perhaps your belief in the plan is being tested? I had a lot of anxiety about retirement after I did it. In hindsight I believe anxiety is optional.
 
We retired 19 months ago. I haven't touched my portfolio. I follow a bucket strategy approach with our Vanguard IRA's, and have ~5 years of cash that I will withdraw from during this turbulence.

I may do a Roth conversion in the next few days - if could just see where the bottom is. ;)
 
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