When will the restrictions be lifted?

[socca]

Any re-opening attempt will be an experiment. It would be handy to have access to high-quality data in order to be able to determine whether the experiment is a success or a failure. Why? Well, if the experiment is a failure, remedial action can be taken in a timely manner to reverse course before further damage is done.

I currently don't have access to high-quality COVID-19 data. The summary stats on the CDC website are of exceptionally poor quality (it's impossible to properly interpret the "number of positive cases" and "number of deaths" data without knowing the number of tests performed, conditions under which tests are performed, protocols for reporting data to the CDC, etc.) I hope that someone in a position of authority has access to good data!

 

[audreyh1]

I just saw some data yesterday showing a big spike in deaths from pneumonia in Florida around mid-March. Most everyone believed, until recently, that influenza was the major cause of most of that pneumonia; but now, many doctors feel that it could have been COVID-19 in many of those cases. No COVID-19 testing was done on the vast majority of those folks, so we'll never know for sure.

A mid-March spike in pneumonia would be very, very suspicious. How did they not already know there was community spread?

 

[JustCurious]

Death rates are going up in Florida so our governor is opening up the state . In the interest of no politics I will not say what I feel about our governor .

For what it's worth, I live in Florida and I think the state should be opened up.

 

[JustCurious]

I think the definition of "civil liberties" is going to change over the next few months.

I hope not.

 

[JustCurious]

That’s completely out of context.

You’re misquoting my reply to a post where a Jacksonville Mayor had reportedly lifted (voluntary) restrictions and people were asked to follow social distancing practices on beaches, and some didn’t. Social distancing is a reasonable suggestion, mostly unenforceable so essentially voluntary - no one had their civil liberties taken away by force of law.

Perhaps I misquoted your reply and if I did, I apologize. I do not have an issue with you, my issue is with overreaching government officials who issue orders telling people that they must stay home and telling people that they cannot be within 6 feet of other people. I don't think there is any such thing as a "voluntary restriction," either I am allowed to do something, or I'm not. I understand that even if the government issued a "social distancing" order it is mostly unenforceable, but I object to the order in the first place. I don't want to be subject to arrest for being within six feet of someone.

 

[ejman]

I have no problem with the government issuing "reasonable guidance," but I do have a problem when the government imposes their "reasonable guidance" on me by force of law and takes away my civil liberties.

So when your exercise of your civil liberties causes your neighbor to die from a disease you carry is that ok?

 

[razztazz]

So when your exercise of your civil liberties causes your neighbor to die from a disease you carry is that ok?

HA!, They'll call it the price of freedom or some such. Or, hey, how about "creative destruction"? Or, he shouldn't have been there?

 

[bolt]

Not what I said at all, you are speculating. I said it really has not affected us at all, and it has not. Went grocery shopping as normal yesterday, and picked up prescriptions as normal.

+1
Sweden's mandated choice has been one of informed liberty: Not 'advised' lockdowns and similar ever changing multi-state mandates to qualify for federal emergency grants left at the discretion of individual state "authorities".
Its all become about reimbursement/money/grants/etc. imho

A date you ask?
- Soon I hope, do what one can to take care!-

 

[dixonge]

I have no problem with the government issuing "reasonable guidance," but I do have a problem when the government imposes their "reasonable guidance" on me by force of law and takes away my civil liberties.

And yet your civil liberties might get a lot of other people killed. Where do we draw the line? This is really all about the 'harm principle'

"the only reason to restrict the action of another individual is to prevent harm to others"

If your 'liberty' involves spreading a deadly virus my way, heck yeah, I'm all in favor of the government using the force of law to prevent that.

https://www.libertarianism.org/media/around-web/harm-principle

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harm_principle

 

[Ready]

I have no problem with the government issuing "reasonable guidance," but I do have a problem when the government imposes their "reasonable guidance" on me by force of law and takes away my civil liberties.

Reasonable guidance only works well when everyone is reasonable. What exactly are you proposing you want Florida to do? Open everything up and go back to normal and just let the virus rip?

 

[Pellice]

The Florida guinea pig experiment continues:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8233139/Crowds-continue-pour-Florida-beaches-reopening.html

For what it's worth, it does look like most people are standing and walking, not sitting. It also looks as though the 6 ft apart rule is not particularly strictly observed.

Data should be available:

In some cases, the state provides information down to granular levels, such as emergency room admissions for cough-related symptoms and the demographics of the state’s 23,000 cases. On the state’s interactive dashboard, people can find out how many people in their county have been admitted to the hospital for COVID-19 and how many confirmed cases exist in their ZIP code, although the latter is of questionable accuracy.

Jacksonville's county is Duval. The dashboard is here:
https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/96dd742462124fa0b38ddedb9b25e429

It really does seem like an experiment.

 

[blueskyk]

I can say this with a great deal of certainty because it has already begun. In Utah, restrictions limiting access to state parks to residents of the county in which the state park is located was lifted yesterday. Utah has a population of about 3.2 million with about 2400 COVID cases and 23 deaths, the majority in the SLC area.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Even though we have restrictions, we are not like other countries where folks are getting fined and ticketed for going out to certain places, at least not in our area. Yes some business' are closed, those who eat out a lot a slightly inconvenienced, but in general it does not seem to be that restrictive.

If we need something for the house, we go to Lowes or HD, as we always did. If we need food we go to the Market, as we always did, if we want to go for a drive, we do, as we always did, if we want to do a Costco run, we do, as we always did (We do call ahead to see if there are lines, the afternoon is the best time for our Costco about 1pm. Most all other items are purchased on-line anyway. We have an excellent stock of content downloaded to our media players, as we always did. OK, so we chat to our local friends and neighbors from about 6' away, in stead of over a glass of wine in one another's home, and do not go to or host gatherings, but that is only a minor inconvenience.

We choose not to go to the dentist, doctor or hospital for our own sanity, but dentists are still open, at least here. Our Pharmacies call the docs offices when a prescription needs refilling, no shortages yet. We miss getting our teeth cleaned every 3 months more than any other inconvenience, but are taking better care of them, we will worry about it more in a year.

I think there are a lot of folks who like to complain for the sake of it. Others simply do not like being told what to do, but we say "Get Over It", we have. Other than a few rebels in our area most people respect the social distancing rule and tend to wear masks, those that do not, we avoid like the plague, oh well, perhaps it will clean up the gene pool.

 

[ER Eddie]

Our governor said restrictions will start to be eased in a week. I'm in MS, so not one of the hard-hit states. He said we need to bear with it for one more week, then we'll start on the road back to normality.

 

[Tiger8693]

I read where a man was arrested in front of his 6 year old daughter for being out in public playing catch with her. If this continues, protests will increase and intensify. They need to be careful about "how' they enforce for sure.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

I read where a man was arrested in front of his 6 year old daughter for being out in public playing catch with her. If this continues, protests will increase and intensify. They need to be careful about "how' they enforce for sure.

I must admit that would be way OTT, but we really do not know all the circumstances or details, like a lot of stuff we hear and read. We only seem to get the info that makes things look / sound worse than what they really are. Like videos on line that only show the "Potentially" bad part, which if seen in their entirety could be very innocent. The ball could have been hitting passers by for all we know.

I stay close to my DW when chatting outside and we do our gardening as normal.

 

[aiken]

So when your exercise of your civil liberties causes your neighbor to die from a disease you carry is that ok?

If my neighbor is part of a high risk group, shouldn't he/she be sheltering and avoiding contact with people?

 

[Midpack]

Reasonable guidance only works well when everyone is reasonable. What exactly are you proposing you want Florida to do? Open everything up and go back to normal and just let the virus rip?

That’s where the unbridled civil liberties bunch goes silent...

 

[MichaelB]

The conversation is getting a bit mean-spirited. let's all remember this is a time of high stress and we're among friends.

 

[Aerides]

I read where a man was arrested in front of his 6 year old daughter for being out in public playing catch with her. If this continues, protests will increase and intensify. They need to be careful about "how' they enforce for sure.

While that did happen, the park they were playing in was closed, and the man in question refused to produce ID when requested.

The man was held for ~10 mins in the cop car, and then released. And the PD apologized publicly the next day, pledging to complete an internal investigation. So hopefully this was an isolated overreach, and likely, one that was used as a cautionary tale to many PD's across the country.

 

[Midpack]

I read where a man was arrested in front of his 6 year old daughter for being out in public playing catch with her. If this continues, protests will increase and intensify. They need to be careful about "how' they enforce for sure.

While that did happen, the park they were playing in was closed, and the man in question refused to produce ID when requested.

The man was held for ~10 mins in the cop car, and then released. And the PD apologized publicly the next day, pledging to complete an internal investigation. So hopefully this was an isolated overreach, and likely, one that was used as a cautionary tale to many PD's across the country.

Sigh...

 

[Dtail]

The Florida guinea pig experiment continues:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8233139/Crowds-continue-pour-Florida-beaches-reopening.html

For what it's worth, it does look like most people are standing and walking, not sitting. It also looks as though the 6 ft apart rule is not particularly strictly observed.

Data should be available:



Jacksonville's county is Duval. The dashboard is here:
https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/96dd742462124fa0b38ddedb9b25e429

It really does seem like an experiment.

Indeed, well FLA is somewhat overcrowded anyways.....

 

[Gumby]

Life Lesson # 2378 - If you go through life looking for reasons to be offended, you will always find them. I really lament our descent into a culture of constant outrage.


(applies in general, not just to this instance)

 

[Tiger8693]

While that did happen, the park they were playing in was closed, and the man in question refused to produce ID when requested.

The man was held for ~10 mins in the cop car, and then released. And the PD apologized publicly the next day, pledging to complete an internal investigation. So hopefully this was an isolated overreach, and likely, one that was used as a cautionary tale to many PD's across the country.

Let's hope that was/is the case...

 

[USGrant1962]

Life Lesson # 2378 - If you go through life looking for reasons to be offended, you will always find them. I really lament our descent into a culture of constant outrage.


(applies in general, not just to this instance)

Yes, the word outrage used to mean something. Now you see it daily on news feeds and it simply means "something I don't like" and the press agrees with me.