Why on Earth are People Still Hoarding Toilet Paper etc.?

[braumeister]

What I want to know is why there is a COIN shortage?!?

That one's easy. We know exactly where they all are.

 

[Amethyst]

Scrooge McDuck may have hoarded a lot of them, but other people joined him this year by staying home and not spending/turning in their coins at the bank.

We didn't contribute to this shortage, as we barely use cash and I'm not sure if I could rub two quarters together in a pinch.

That one's easy. We know exactly where they all are.

 

[ERD50]

What I want to know is why there is a COIN shortage?!?

Well, the first hit from my search engine says it is a supply problem:

https://www.lewistownsentinel.com/news/local-news/2020/08/why-is-there-a-coin-shortage/

And I suspect that may be the answer to the OP question. He's assuming it is hoarders, but it could very well be supply. I imagine it is difficult for factories to fully staff with the precautions that are in place - some people won't even want to risk it, and might just quit.

And as was mentioned, some of the products have shifted from one type to another, and factories may not be able to or don't think it is profitable to convert. The example I heard of was that many commercial places use those big rolls of TP, and that takes different equipment from the home-sized rolls.

Back to the coins, I'm not sure I follow their reasoning - if fewer retail transactions mean fewer coins being returned, wouldn't that mean fewer coins being used as well? Hmmm, OK, if it was even, the retail places would not need to return coins, they would just cycle as many in as out? Not sure I follow the life-cycle of a coin.

edit/add: another example from a current thread:

https://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f27/toilet-paper-but-no-root-beer-105243.html#post2475500

Root beer shortages, maybe due to aluminum can shortages, because more people drinking at home use cans vs the bulk supply (syrup/concentrate + soda water on demand) at restaurants.

-ERD50

 

[RobbieB]

It's all about the fear. Lotta fear out there. And scared people are dangerous people. My wife is already planning to expand our "prepper pile" of paper products, canned goods, pasta, rice and cleaning products out in the garage for the upcoming "flu" season. She thinks that between the flu and the covid people are going total savage.

I don't think it's going to get that bad and I don't worry as much as she does. But I can identify with paper run 2.

Amazing.

 

[rk911]

not seeing any sign of TP hording here.

 

[omni550]

What I want to know is why there is a COIN shortage?!?

Because places that typically collect a lot of coins (parking meters, laundromats, etc.) aren't running at full-scale due to covid, so they aren't bringing in their coins to the banks.This means the banks don't have rolls of coins to give out to stores, etc. Vicious cycle ensues.

omni

 

[harllee]

Maybe this is a good time to get rid on the penny like so many other countries have done.

 

[Telly]

Maybe this is a good time to get rid on the penny like so many other countries have done.

Might as well. "A penny for your thoughts" hasn't worked out too well lately. And I think only elderly (eek!) people say "I need to spend a penny"

 

[Telly]

TP, PT, hand sanitizer, root beer, etc.etc. have been fully stocked here in NTX for months. The one item that is NOT available, no how no way, is pump-spray cleaners like 409, Fantastik, and the like. I'm surprised stores have gone this long leaving the shelf space open for it. The other item that is rarely available is disinfectant wipes. I saw one about a month ago in Walmart, saw two in a Kroger about two weeks ago. Neither would work on Covid-19.

 

[Elbata]

I can understand wipes and TP for the classroom. But at home, I haven't used TP for years: https://www.amazon.com/】Handheld-To...t=&hvlocphy=9031584&hvtargid=pla-908215931908

 

[Sunset]

Yikes! I have not even thought about paper products lately. I just checked my inventory--I am down to a couple of weeks of toilet paper and only 2 boxes of Kleenex. I better start the hunt.

Costco has a sale on Kleenex packages this month. I got my pack of 10 boxes, so we are good for 6 months or more.

 

[wrigley]

Paper products haven't been an issue here since May. Costco fully stocked for quite a long time with the exception of Chlorox wipes.

Paper products are fully stocked here as well.........at 2 1/2 times what they cost 6 months ago!


Mike

 

[Amethyst]

Supply certainly factors in. Even my irrigation/sprinkler system tech says they are having trouble getting supplies, because the factories are short-staffed here and in China.

Evidently root beer is not the only soda in short supply https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/11/business/dr-pepper-shortage-trnd/index.html

Aluminum cans are scarce too. Just hope my LaCroix Passionfruit Essence Sparkling Water doesn't go out of stock

Well, the first hit from my search engine says it is a supply problem:



-ERD50

 

[BigNick]

Maybe this is a good time to get rid on the penny like so many other countries have done.

When the Euro was being designed, there was a long debate over whether the smallest coin should be 5c or 1c.

The split mostly came down to whether a country already had a 0.01 or 1.00 smallest coin in its old units; for example, there was a pfennig/penny coin for 0.01 German mark, and 1 peseta in Spain, each worth about half a US cent, so those countries wanted to have €0.01 as an option. Some people were already suspicious that retail prices would rise "under cover of the Euro changeover", and didn't trust the proposed rounding-off mechanism. In the end, Germany's weight in the debate was what swung it, and now we have 1, 2, and 5 cent copper coins. The 2 is easy to confuse for both of the others.

Meanwhile countries like the Netherlands, Finland, and Austria had abolished their pennies many years earlier, as in most cases 1.00 of their main currency unit was already quite a lot less than a Euro/dollar, but not 100x less as in Spain (or 1000x less as in Italy). The Netherlands' guilder was actually close to a German mark, but they had got rid of pennies many years previously because they were expensive to make (the stereotype of the Dutch being thrifty is true). In all of those countries, people had been used for years to the idea that when your total bill ended in .01, .02, .06, or .07 it was rounded down, and otherwise up.

On the other other hand, France had had 5c rounding for decades (1 franc was worth about $0.15, so 0.05 francs was worth a penny), but had no problem with the new 1-cent coins --- perhaps because they were quite close to the old smallest coin.

Today, the 1- and 2-Euro cent coins are never found, and may not even be legal tender, in at least the Netherlands and Finland. (Their own central banks make the legal tender laws, although the currency itself is run from Frankfurt.) I have found myself in shops in the Netherlands wanting to spend a few coins and having them refused, even in multiples of 5c.

This is all becoming moot as COVID-19 is accelerating the move to debit card (especially contactless) transactions. By the end of 2019, 90% of retail transactions in Sweden and the Netherlands were done by card; I've seen seen ATMs in the Netherlands with slightly plaintive notices saying "Please take some cash out, it might come in handy". Here in Spain we can pay up to €50 contactless and €100 with tap-and-PIN (no need to put the card into the slot on the reader), which is good for contact avoidance as the clerk doesn't handle your card, and I can tap in the PIN with a corner of the card. I don't think I've paid cash more than 5 or 6 times since March.

 

[USGrant1962]

The WSJ has an article today (paywalled) that suggests lean manufacturing is primarily to blame. From the article:

The scarcity is rooted in a decadeslong quest by businesses at all levels, handling many different products, to eke out more profit by operating with almost no slack. Make only what you can sell quickly. Order only enough materials to keep production lines going. Have only enough railcars for a day’s worth of output. Stock only enough items on a shelf to last till the next batch arrives.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-arent-there-enough-paper-towels-11598020793

 

[athena53]

Some of the posts I see elsewhere are from people anticipating a second wave of COVID as people go indoors for more things during colder weather. Last time I bought TP was March 20- I'd returned from a trip the day before and had no idea how much I had at home but I was at Costco and bought a 30-roll pack. It turned out I had about 6 rolls left from my previous purchase and then I got a 4-pack as part of a marketing survey from e-Rewards in July. So, I'm still well-stocked.

Oh, yeah- the latest Costco circular had a few "doomsday prep" food packs on sale. One, which I think was 180 days for 2 people, was $3,700.

I think multi-person households might have more worries about running out- I live alone and although I sometimes haven't been able to find exactly what I want during scarcities there have been plenty of acceptable alternatives.

 

[audreyh1]

The WSJ has an article today (paywalled) that suggests lean manufacturing is primarily to blame. From the article:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-arent-there-enough-paper-towels-11598020793

Yes, the economy has been very stable in terms of supply and demand for a long time, with very gradual, rather than abrupt changes. So businesses have optimized for that type environment and cut costs as much as possible.

Heck, Just-in-Time Manufacturing was a huge push back in the last century when I was working.

 

[sengsational]

The WSJ has an article today (paywalled) that suggests lean manufacturing is primarily to blame. From the article:3

One of my j*b responsibilities before I quit was running applications who's purpose was to set levels at every stage of production. It was highly scientific, but based on historical demand. The application vendors blow about how squeezing down levels of stock across the supply chain can save lots of money. It's all based on statics on historical information, and it is supposed to account for for missed demand (losses due to unavailability). But those losses are supposed to be offset by the typical situation where the supply chain is running lean. My problem with the idea was that if your history didn't include an example of a fluctuation in demand that 'looks like' what might come about in the future, you might miss serving a lot of demand. To that, they say, yeah, but we see the demand change and can react to fill the supply chain. But as noted, the tissue mills would need a lot of down time to make different product.

 

[gerntz]

The WSJ has an article today (paywalled) that suggests lean manufacturing is primarily to blame. From the article:



https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-arent-there-enough-paper-towels-11598020793

I hardly call it blame when a company is trying to keep costs down. They have increased production as much as they can short-term & continue to ramp up, so good for them. Consumers are the ones who have changed, so I think the blame goes to them - assuming there needs to be blame.

 

[Midpack]

The WSJ has an article today (paywalled) that suggests lean manufacturing is primarily to blame. From the article:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-arent-there-enough-paper-towels-11598020793

Yes, the economy has been very stable in terms of supply and demand for a long time, with very gradual, rather than abrupt changes. So businesses have optimized for that type environment and cut costs as much as possible.

Heck, Just-in-Time Manufacturing was a huge push back in the last century when I was working.

Blame? After a career in manufacturing, I can tell you lean manufacturing was essential to remain competitive - it wasn't a mindless profit grab.

And JIT was a joke in most manufacturing organizations. The big guys just forced their suppliers to carry their inventory instead of having it on their books - more accounting than innovation. Many suppliers had to carry more inventory than the downstream users just to satisfy sometimes ridiculous just in time targets.

Parts of them were legitimately useful but I don't miss 6-sigma, LEAN, JIT, SPC, FMEA, TQM or any of the other brilliant programs the suits thought would be a great idea - for manufacturing...

Covid may change supply chain sourcing for lots of countries, but it's just a matter of time before all the "clever" programs come back with new acronyms and consultants.

 

[Winemaker]

It's all about the fear. Lotta fear out there. And scared people are dangerous people.

Amazing.

+10

 

[MichaelB]

I think it’s not fear, just some channel dislocation. In any event, if the sh!t does hit the fan, everyone will be well equipped to clean up the mess.

 

[Major Tom]

It's all about the fear. Lotta fear out there. And scared people are dangerous people.
Amazing.

Yep, and there's nothing worse than a fearful person with no TP. Best to give those types a wide berth - and hold yer nose

 

[timo2]

People that were previously concerned about supply chain issues have had their fears confirmed by the USPS issues, so now they are going to double down on collecting items they don't want to do without. (for me it's wine). Regarding wipes, there have been a plethora of article about the supply chain for those, from the ingredients to the containers. We still don't have wipes in our area.

 

[audreyh1]

People that were previously concerned about supply chain issues have had their fears confirmed by the USPS issues, so now they are going to double down on collecting items they don't want to do without. (for me it's wine). Regarding wipes, there have been a plethora of article about the supply chain for those, from the ingredients to the containers. We still don't have wipes in our area.

Hmmm - but USPS doesn’t ship wine.