Car Dealership Shenanigans

[OldShooter]

I briefly did sales and the salesman talking to the Manager to plead the customer's case/need for a lower price is all BS.
We knew how much commission we were getting and could play with that. It's just theater.

That's called "Absent Authority" negotiating. It allows the seller/salesman to pretend to be sitting on the buyer's side of the table, a good friend working with the buyer to please the absent authority. The buyer's best defense is to adamently insist on talking to the absent authority directly.

I use it all the time. When buying a car I will go in alone and say things like "My wife won't like that color, the price will have to be really good for her to compromise on color." "My wife won't let me spend that much." "I can't buy without checking with my wife." I think it probably even works better if the wife is the negotiator and her husband is the absent authority. "My husband says undercoating and stone shield film is just a racket. You'll have to take those off the price." "I don't think that will work; I'll go home and talk to my husband about it, though." It also solves the problem of the seller seeing a female as someone to be taken advantage of. The salesperson unwittingly becomes her ally trying to please the husband, her absent authority.

This is why the investment hucksters demand that both hubby and wife come to the free steak dinner. No absent authority.

The only time it doesn't work well is if the buyer's ego doesn't let him/her pretend to be powerless. I had a sales guy like that once and he left money on the table I'm sure.

 

[JoeWras]

I briefly did sales and the salesman talking to the Manager to plead the customer's case/need for a lower price is all BS.
We knew how much commission we were getting and could play with that. It's just theater.

My cousin sold cars for a while and he said they'd just have a chat in the break room with whomever was there and shoot the breeze. This is well documented in the Fargo clip.

 

[REWahoo]

Had a dealership try the "We lost the keys to your trade-in" trick to attempt to keep you in the dealership after you say no deal, I'm leaving. My response to "lost" keys (mind you I'd been there far longer than I wanted to be and was totally fed up with their negotiating games) was to stand up in the middle of their showroom and shout so that every customer in the place could hear me:

"I WILL NOT BE HELD HOSTAGE SO YOU CAN TRY TO FORCE ME TO BUY A CAR. BRING ME MY KEYS NOW SO I CAN GET OUT OF THIS SLEAZY DEALERSHIP!"

They located them immediately.

 

[athena53]

It's telling that so many people here have horror stories! I'll skip my own- nothing really new- but I left all the dealing to DH after I married and we typically bought off-rental with minimal BS.

And then my 2012 Nissan Altima died when I was visiting DS and family, 3 hours form home. Replacing the transmission would cost $3,500. "Mom", DS said, that's like polishing the brass on "Titanic". Disgusted that the Nissan developed such an expensive issue after only 134,000 miles, I got on-line at a Honda dealer's site. DS is a claims adjuster and has done a lot of Auto claims; he's also an excellent negotiator. He told me that we could bypass the whole BS process by calling the dealership, telling them what car I wanted (from their web site) and asking for an out-the-door cash price. It was reasonable. I called my broker and had the $$ transferred to my checking account. (The dealer said they'd hold the final paperwork for 10 days to make sure the check cleared- fine with me.)

The next day DS drove me there, I drove it around, I signed the papers and it was mine in about half an hour. I handed DS the keys and said, "You drive this home- I'll take your car". He was thrilled. My granddaughters (ages 6 and 3) think that the backup camera display is the coolest thing ever.

 

[travelover]

Had a dealership try the "We lost the keys to your trade-in" trick to attempt to keep you in the dealership after you say no deal, I'm leaving. My response to "lost" keys (mind you I'd been there far longer than I wanted to be and was totally fed up with their negotiating games) was to stand up in the middle of their showroom and shout so that every customer in the place could hear me:

"I WILL NOT BE HELD HOSTAGE SO YOU CAN TRY TO FORCE ME TO BUY A CAR. BRING ME MY KEYS NOW SO I CAN GET OUT OF THIS SLEAZY DEALERSHIP!"

They located them immediately.

I don't suppose the shoulder holster hurt either.

 

[foxfirev5]

The last new car I bought 5 years ago was an easy transaction. We went into the dealer and told the salesman we wanted to get a price on the Chevy with the ugly seats that no one else would buy. He instantly knew the car. I was then in the drivers seat so to speak. By the way we really liked the seat pattern. No emotion and he knew from my demeanor I would walk in a minute. Been through it a hundred times in both industrial and consumer situations.

 

[braumeister]

Last car I bought was the most delightful experience ever, but also highly unusual. Volvo has (sadly, not right now due to COVID) an overseas delivery program.
I looked at cars on the lot and picked a model I loved. Asked the salesman about their overseas program and put my deposit down.

Here's how it works:

• You pick all the options you want, since the car is custom built to your specs.
• They give you an immediate $3,000 off the regular price because you'll pick it up at the factory.
• They also give you two round-trip tickets to Sweden and a night in an amazingly good hotel with meals included.
• They pick you up at the airport, take you to the hotel, and next morning take you to the factory.
• You get a factory tour (which is amazing), and they spend an hour with you going over all the bells and whistles of the car.
• The car has Swedish temporary plates, and two weeks of fully paid European insurance, so you can drive it wherever you like. This can be extended to more weeks for a small charge.
• When you're done, you turn in the car, either back at the factory or elsewhere in Europe, and fly back home.
• They ship the car to your local dealer (free) and the dealer then hands it over to you.

We had such a fantastic time I'm hoping I'll love my next one as much as I love this one.

 

[Freedom56]

The best way to buy a car for all cash is to negotiate the price with their internet sales representative. You can use many online sites to determine what others are paying for the specific car to help you determine how much discount you should be receiving. This also avoids the silly back and forth negotiations when you are sitting at a dealership negotiating a price.

Car dealers prefer financing deals since that's how they make their money. However, since we are at the end of the year, they will also want to clear out 2020 inventory.

 

[Out-to-Lunch]

I do not profess to be a good car negotiator.

We were buying a 2012 Subaru (new), and planning to trade in a 1998 Sube. We had already (IIRC) negotiated the sales price on the previous trip, but not the trade-in value. DW and I privately agreed on what our minimum was for the trade-in, and what we would try to negotiate for. Their first offer was significantly more than our aspirational, negotiate-for price. I was unable to regroup and try to negotiate higher -- I think I mumbled, "Well, we were hoping to get more than that, but okay, we'll take it."

Three years later, DW had an injury that prevented her from driving the manual trannies we had. So we traded that Sube in for a near-identical 2015 model (with an automatic) at a different dealer. The negotiations all went fine, but then we had to sit with "The finance guy." We held our own against his predations, but then (as someone mentioned upthread), he brought a woman in who gave a pitch on a prepaid maintenance package, plus $500 off your next car (and this package cost ~$900). My quick calculations were that we would probably spend that much in maintenance, we were tired, foggy, just wanted it over with, so we caved. Typical MO, right?

Anyway, I think we got about $600-700 value out of that $900, so I can chalk it up to the school of hard knocks.

 

[mystang52]

There's that parable about the frog letting the scorpion ride on his back to cross the stream. The scorpion stings the frog anyway, telling the frog "it's my nature." Right or wrong, that's how I view car salesmen. If one talks with a car salesman, recognize that anything (s)he says that is true is just coincidental. It's a bit easier to shop this way.

Shortly after I retired, back in 2013, I stopped by a Lexus dealer, looking to buy the ES sedan. I was a serious buyer, but the visit wasn't planned. I happened to drive by the dealer so went in. I was in a T shirt, hadn't shaved in a few days. First, they didn't take me too seriously and then I had to remind them a couple of times that I would not be financing or leasing. The final purchase was only accomplished after they tried all of the typical moves. I had walked out and only went back after they called and I got a firm deal over the phone (which they honored).
I ultimately gave that car to DW. and since then bought 2 Audis -at 2 different dealerships - and the buying process was as close to pleasurable as car buying could be. Maybe they were 2 flukes, but I'm committed to Audi, now.

 

[Beststash]

My DW spent a couple of years as a title clerk at a Chevy/Mercedes dealership. She can tell some funny stories about car salesmen. After about 6 months on the job she asked that her office was off limits for the car salesmen - they like to hangout and talk shite - a motley crew indeed.

 

[Out-to-Lunch]

I was a serious buyer, but the visit wasn't planned. I happened to drive by the dealer so went in. I was in a T shirt, hadn't shaved in a few days. First, they didn't take me too seriously and then I had to remind them a couple of times that I would not be financing or leasing.

I digress, but I have played this the other way once. I went back to my hometown for a relative's funeral. My brother and I were dressed, therefore, in nice suits, and I was driving a nice, older Porsche 911. My brother suggested that we visit a motorcycle dealership to see a bike he liked, but couldn't really afford. We were treated very nicely!

 

[marinauser]

The bottom line is that new cars have been in short supply due to covid. In turn, used cars have seen prices rise and supplies decline. I suspect the biggest problem is that the OP is trying to buy cars that are at other dealerships. If the dealer that has the car gets a higher offer for that car, you can bet they will sell it and not transfer it to the OP's dealer. I would just try to hold off to let inventories rise or you probably will have to be willing to take a car that does not match all of your expectations.

 

[Walt34]

Had a dealership try the "We lost the keys to your trade-in" trick to attempt to keep you in the dealership after you say no deal, I'm leaving. My response to "lost" keys (mind you I'd been there far longer than I wanted to be and was totally fed up with their negotiating games) was to stand up in the middle of their showroom and shout so that every customer in the place could hear me:

"I WILL NOT BE HELD HOSTAGE SO YOU CAN TRY TO FORCE ME TO BUY A CAR. BRING ME MY KEYS NOW SO I CAN GET OUT OF THIS SLEAZY DEALERSHIP!"

They located them immediately.

When I was working there was a car dealership in another district that was famous for pulling that stunt, and often people out of frustration would call the police. And officer would arrive, inform the salesman that he had ONE MINUTE to produce the keys or he'd be arrested for auto theft. (Actually a lesser statute called "unauthorized use" but they didn't know that.)

One idiot tried to push the envelope too far by arguing and was promptly taken out in handcuffs. Calls for that practice stopped for quite a while after that incident.

 

[brett]

A friend of mine in the business said that how much he made depends on the car, and the gross margin.

There is little margin on the new lower end vehicles. He would make more money selling bank financing, rustproofing/undercoat/overcoat, add on options, and extended warranties than he would on selling the base vehicle.

 

[Dash man]

Two years ago we bought a Subaru Impreza wagon for our son and his wife after they had twins. We got it with all the safety features at the end of the year. It had been a service loaner, so had about 3,500 miles on it. I found it on the Internet and drove to the dealership to check it out. It was in perfect shape and had everything I wanted for safety. We negotiated the price and I was pleased with the final offer. I put a deposit to hold the car until the next day when we drove the kids up to check it out to make sure it would serve their needs. They couldn’t afford a new car, so they weren’t going to turn it down unless it wouldn’t work for some reason. They loved it, so I told the young lady let’s close the deal. She brought the paperwork in and I was shocked. The price we had agreed to included out the door, including tax and title. She said her manager was touched that we were buying the car for our kids who had twins. They were so nice!

 

[jazz4cash]

Is the 0% financing offered on new cars real? Is it impossible to qualify for or part of some kind of a bait-n-switch tactic?

I think they are real but it might be only the 36 month term that qualifies for 0% so many buyers are priced out due to the monthly payment on a 36 mo loan. For a typical car purchase ~$38k, it’s not a huge difference between 0% and 3% anyway but free money sure sounds fine!!

 

[troutnut1]

I’d rather go to a hospital with covid than to go to any new car dealer. They haven’t yet invented a car that I want that badly. But father used to do it for sport, even when he didn’t want anything. He also enjoyed trying to get 50 cent paperbacks for a quarter at garage sales. I’m surprised he didn’t end up with more new cars than he did. He scored 5 new cars in his 79 years. A 56 Chevy, a 67 Chevy Caprice, a 96 Chevy Caprice, and a 1998 Cadillac Coupe Deville. I don’t think the dealers did very well on any of them.

 

[JoeWras]

My DW spent a couple of years as a title clerk at a Chevy/Mercedes dealership. She can tell some funny stories about car salesmen. After about 6 months on the job she asked that her office was off limits for the car salesmen - they like to hangout and talk shite - a motley crew indeed.

You see, when they are hanging out and talking to the title clerk, the customer thinks they are having serious discussions with management.

 

[scrabbler1]

This might sound like a shenanigan but I really wasn't. When I bought my Corolla back in early 2007, I had been following it on the dealer's website inventory for a few weeks, and it, oddly enough, hadn't been sold even though Corollas quickly appeared and disappeared a few days later.


When I finally went to the dealer, the salesman told me someone had put a deposit on the car but changed his mind and they couldn't get another buyer for it, as it was a low-end Corolla (CE model) which lacked some optional features I didn't care about.


The salesman also told me, and it was true, was that the dealership was on the verge of being sold to a larger conglomerate so they wanted to move cars, including the one I was interested in, before the takeover. This also explained why there had been no advertising in the local print media the last few weeks (also true). Indeed, a week after I bought the car, the dealership had been taken over and had a new name, a generic one matching other large dealerships of different types of car.


This isn't to say I had to avoid some of the typical, more common shenanigans. On the sticker was a second sticker which included some expensive, dealer-installed options such as rustproofing and something else I wasn't interested in (or paying for). One feature I was okay with, but not at the price they had on there. The salesman told me "all the cars come that way," to which I replied, "But I'm not interested in them and won't pay for them."


Armed with Consumer's Reports data on dealer cost and having reread that Leslie Sachs book I had bought in 1991 (see my earlier post), I calculated a dealer cost price, added a few small amounts, and plunked down an offer which the salesman accepted, without any major haggling from him or the sales manager. My 15-year-old trade-in (the 1991 Prizm) wasn't worth much and was barely running properly, so I didn't care too much what I got for it.


After a quick meeting with the finance guy (who also wanted to sell me other things I had no interest in) the salesman wanted me to get a bank check that afternoon, but I reminded him it was President's Day and the banks were closed (Duh!). I got one the next day and had the new car by that night.

 

[Koolau]

I briefly did sales and the salesman talking to the Manager to plead the customer's case/need for a lower price is all BS.
We knew how much commission we were getting and could play with that. It's just theater.

Years ago, they tried this theater on me. Standard question: "What would you pay for this van?" I gave them my number. The salesman said "Well, I gotta go talk to the sales manager, but I don't think he'll go that low."

I stood up and headed for the door. I said, "call me if the sales manager wants to sell me the car at my price." The salesman shot me a price with half the discount I was asking. By the time I got to the door it was 3/4 the discount. When I opened the door the salesman said. "Okay, you just bought a car at your price." Still not sure I got a GOOD price, but I did get MY price and I wouldn't play their silly game. YMMV

 

[scrabbler1]

Years ago, they tried this theater on me. Standard question: "What would you pay for this van?" I gave them my number. The salesman said "Well, I gotta go talk to the sales manager, but I don't think he'll go that low."

I stood up and headed for the door. I said, "call me if the sales manager wants to sell me the car at my price." The salesman shot me a price with half the discount I was asking. By the time I got to the door it was 3/4 the discount. When I opened the door the salesman said. "Okay, you just bought a car at your price." Still not sure I got a GOOD price, but I did get MY price and I wouldn't play their silly game. YMMV

"Walk out...….slowly," is what Dr. Sachs wrote in his book I read about dealing with car salesmen. Good for you, for using that simple tactic.

 

[MrsHaloFIRE]

i worked at a car dealership in the HR dept. Lets just say it was a fulltime job getting the salesman sales licenses and approved to drive on the dealrship insuranc epolicy because of all the DWIs they had. Not a fun time. Very sleazy.


Last car I bought was a subaru, negotiated on the phone with the salesman i had taken one for test drive from for 2 days, and a salesman at a diff sub dealer nearby that was the one "up" when I called adn told him I would be buying a 2019 FOrester with X package this week in cash, and i was either going to get it from him or CHarlie at the competitor. And CHarlie just named me XYZ price (which I lied, I gave him a price atleast 500 lower than CHarlie said). WOuldnt you know, he could beat it. I finally got them both rock bottom and they were within a couple hundred bucks of each other, difference being color and one had a tow hitch. Didnt want the hitch. Went in, wrote a check and walked out. SUPER EASY. F and I guy didnt appear to relish his job and didnt push anything on us, in fact i asked him what he was supposed to be selling and he slid across a maintenance package brochure which i slid back and he said oK we are done here.

 

[Sunnymar]

As said already, buying a new car is a pleasant experience if done online, no visiting the dealership until you are ready to pickup the car. You can get multiple bids, from several dealers.

 

[jazz4cash]

Another interesting thing that happened to me on my impulse purchase. The salesman asked my name and looked puzzled when I responded. It’s an unusual name. He asked if I used to live at 123 Elm street. I gave him a puzzled look wondering how he knew. Then he says “We bought your old house!” No shenanigans just curious.