Controlling the unholy trinity (salt, sugar, saturated fat)

[HenryD]

As a country how do you think we can provide enough protein to fee everyone a plant based diet?

Plant-based diets can provide plenty of protein, most vegans get more than enough. Fiber deficiency is much more of an issue.

 

[ivinsfan]

Plant-based diets can provide plenty of protein, most vegans get more than enough. Fiber deficiency is much more of an issue.

Do you want to answer my question about how we provide an adequate plant based diet to everyone in the country...you comment about fiber address the issue of quantity needed for people to eat plant based.

 

[HenryD]

Well a good point but raising crops for human consumption is extremely labor intensive. Unless you want everyone to eat kidney beans. Some areas of this county can't grow crops of any kind from fall till April. Do we have the logistics and the labor to continually provide everyone in the country with fresh food? There is plenty of land to grow fresh food but not much close to large population centers.

This is a complex issue.

Fair points. You can't raise lettuce well in Wyoming. Definitely a complex issue.

And lots of people prefer meat to beans.

 

[bloom2708]

Well technically you said animal based things which is way more then just meat. So no dairy, no eggs, no non red meat? As a country how do you think we can provide enough protein to fee everyone a plant based diet? This seems to put large urban areas at a disadvantage. You can blow off my questions if you want to.

Most get 3-5x the amount of protein they need.

It is surprisingly easy. No meat, no fish, no dairy or any sort from animals, no eggs, limit oils of any kind, limit processed/refined junk. Every single meal is delicious and guilt free. Everyone should at least know the options out there.

We need 0 cholesterol beyond what our bodies make. 0.

Some, but few doctors will tell you that food is the issue. They will sell you a lifetime pill subscription, tell you to keep eating the way you have been and gladly see you for a lifetime. Only in America are drug advertisements on TV.

It is both complicated and easy at the same time.

 

[ivinsfan]

Most get 3-5x the amount of protein they need.

It is surprisingly easy. No meat, no fish, no dairy or any sort from animals, no eggs, limit oils of any kind, limit processed/refined junk. Every single meal is delicious and guilt free. Everyone should at least know the options out there.

We need 0 cholesterol beyond what our bodies make. 0.

Some, but few doctors will tell you that food is the issue. They will sell you a lifetime pill subscription, tell you to keep eating the way you have been and gladly see you for a lifetime. Only in America are drug advertisements on TV.

It is both complicated and easy at the same time.

OK how do you produce enough of this food so that everyone in the country can eat that way...all consumed food will need to be grown in the ground. Who grows it? BTW I don't have guilt when I eat eggs. Nothing about your answer is easy.

My original comment was only that meat should not be lumped in with sugar...I'm not preaching to people about what they eat or don't eat..

 

[bloom2708]

Do you want to answer my question about how we provide an adequate plant based diet to everyone in the country...you comment about fiber address the issue of quantity needed for people to eat plant based.

The protein argument is so old and tired. Completely debunked decades ago.

Plants have all the protein you need. They have all the proteins needed.

Ever seen a protein deficient Elephant, Rhinoceros, Gorilla or Cow?

I'm fine with the "where do you get protein"? schtick from the meat industry. It clearly is effective.

 

[braumeister]

Alas, these "best way to eat" discussions always seem to end up in arguments, much like a discussion of "best religion to follow" or "best political philosophy".

Nobody is ever convinced by any argument in any direction.

Confirmation bias.

 

[ivinsfan]

The protein argument is so old and tired. Completely debunked decades ago.

Plants have all the protein you need. They have all the proteins needed.

Ever seen a protein deficient Elephant, Rhinoceros, Gorilla or Cow?

I'm fine with the "where do you get protein"? schtick from the meat industry. It clearly is effective.

LOL .....three of the animals you mentioned live in the jungle..a cow living in the wild is way different then someone live in a city of millions..

once again my original comment was that meat shouldn't be grouped with sugar.

 

[bloom2708]

Alas, these "best way to eat" discussions always seem to end up in arguments, much like a discussion of "best religion to follow" or "best political philosophy".

Nobody is ever convinced by any argument in any direction.

Confirmation bias.

People can discuss topics without it being an argument. How do we learn if we only read about what we already believe?

"Don't argue" is just another way to shut down discussion. Nobody is arguing but we can present different ideas.

 

[HenryD]

Do you want to answer my question about how we provide an adequate plant based diet to everyone in the country...you comment about fiber address the issue of quantity needed for people to eat plant based.

If most people wanted to eat plant-based we'd meet the need. I spent yesterday driving in the midwest US through miles of soybean fields. Almost all of the soy was destined for animal feed. And beets destined to become processed sugar. Why not miles of legumes, and golden beets? Switching to similar crops for direct human consumption wouldn't be a big stretch if the market was there for it, and wouldn't have to happen all at once.

 

[REWahoo]

People can discuss topics without it being an argument. How do we learn if we only read about what we already believe?

"Don't argue" is just another way to shut down discussion. Nobody is arguing but we can present different ideas.

Are you arguing about not arguing?

 

[ivinsfan]

Alas, these "best way to eat" discussions always seem to end up in arguments, much like a discussion of "best religion to follow" or "best political philosophy".

Nobody is ever convinced by any argument in any direction.

Confirmation bias.

Well it turns from the best way to eat to...eat this way or else. I don't care if people do or don't eat meat. they can do what they want.

I personally think sugar is the worst food on the planet...so I put sugar in a category by itself.

I also love people who say they are presenting ideas to discuss but are not open to discussing them.

 

[bloom2708]

LOL .....three of the animals you mentioned live in the jungle..a cow living in the wild is way different then someone live in a city of millions..

once again my original comment was that meat shouldn't be grouped with sugar.

Animals eat plants. We eat those animals to get their protein because most think that is how you get protein.

I don't expect anyone to have guilt over eating eggs. The yolk is the purest form of cholesterol available to eat.

You should only have guilt if you have high cholesterol and consider eggs healthy. I can't compete with keto stuff.

It is a fun topic to discuss, but the old "argument" pops up and it is over. Oh well.

 

[bloom2708]

Well it turns from the best way to eat to...eat this way or else. I don't care if people do or don't eat meat. they can do what they want.

I personally think sugar is the worst food on the planet...so I put sugar in a category by itself.

Many things have "sugar" in them. Sugar itself isn't the enemy, but when you refine out the fiber and cellulose out of things and end up with pure sugar, that isn't good.

Refined and added sugar are no friend to health.

Most of the processed and prepared foods have the tri-fecta of salt, fat (cholesterol) and sugar mixed together.

 

[HenryD]

all consumed food will need to be grown in the ground.

All meat and dairy is produced from animals that ate feed that came from the ground (or sea).

 

[ivinsfan]

If most people wanted to eat plant-based we'd meet the need. I spent yesterday driving in the midwest US through miles of soybean fields. Almost all of the soy was destined for animal feed. And beets destined to become processed sugar. Why not miles of legumes, and golden beets? Switching to similar crops for direct human consumption wouldn't be a big stretch if the market was there for it, and wouldn't have to happen all at once.

I think right now that is an infrastructure issue. Beans and beets are fine but they need to be planted and harvested with expensive machinery and then they need to be transported and store for the long term. The biggest issue would come during cold weather when people need or want fresh fruits and veggies since they aren't eating animal products.

 

[ivinsfan]

Many things have "sugar" in them. Sugar itself isn't the enemy, but when you refine out the fiber and cellulose out of things and end up with pure sugar, that isn't good.

Refined and added sugar are no friend to health.

Most of the processed and prepared foods have the tri-fecta of salt, fat (cholesterol) and sugar mixed together.

we agree completely here ...except for canned tomatoes...

 

[bloom2708]

Are you arguing about not arguing?

I'm typing in a quiet/peaceful/non-threatening manner.

It doesn't seem to be taking. Maybe a poor choice of font.

Some fonts just are too in your face.

 

[ivinsfan]

I'm typing in a quiet/peaceful/non-threatening manner.

It doesn't seem to be taking. Maybe a poor choice of font.

Some fonts just are too in your face.

I'm finding it interesting...I'd rather have a food fight then a COVID/political fight....

 

[Gumby]

I am an omnivore. I eat meat because it tastes good. I also eat vegetables because they taste good.

You may prefer to eat all meat or all vegetables, which is your right.

Fortunately, we can all indulge our own tastes, so no need to fight about it.

 

[bloom2708]

I think right now that is an infrastructure issue. Beans and beets are fine but they need to be planted and harvested with expensive machinery and then they need to be transported and store for the long term. The biggest issue would come during cold weather when people need or want fresh fruits and veggies since they aren't eating animal products.

I live in a very cold area. Yet we seem to have fresh fruits and vegetables and beans year round.

We trade corn, soybeans and wheat to places that grow the fruits/vegetables.

It will be slow, but momentum is picking up. It won't have to be all or nothing.

The amount of change in the past 2-5 years has been impressive.

 

[ivinsfan]

I am an omnivore. I eat meat because it tastes good. I also eat vegetables because they taste good.

You may prefer to eat all meat or all vegetables, which is your right.

Fortunately, we can all indulge our own tastes, so no need to fight about it.

You call this fighting I don't think you have been paying attention to the outside world. It's actually a relief to throw down about something as normal as vegan/meat eater...

 

[ivinsfan]

I live in a very cold area. Yet we seem to have fresh fruits and vegetables and beans year round.

We trade corn, soybeans and wheat to places that grow the fruits/vegetables.

It will be slow, but momentum is picking up. It won't have to be all or nothing.

The amount of change in the past 2-5 years has been impressive.

I don't think it can ever be all or nothing...and it doesn't have to be.

 

[bloom2708]

I have been eating whole food/plant based for 2 years. Every time I visit my parents they ask "why and what do you eat?" It is cute.

My uncle is 74, 3 of 4 arteries plugged (100,90, 80), carotids plugged, leg arteries plugged. They can't do surgery because it is so dire. Ticking timebomb.

I was chatting with his wife and she was exasperated and didn't know what to do. I said, well, he could try a plant based, low fat diet. She reacted like I wanted to cut off his arms. It was cute.

No meat? no cheese? no cow teat squirt? No bacon and eggs for breakfast? Impossible!

Very possible, but also a big change. How about some meals instead of all meals? If 80-90% of meals were meat/cheese/dairy free, you get 80/90% of the benefit.

It doesn't have to be all or nothing, but I'm partial to doing things or not doing things. Everyone has to find their sliding scale.

 

[bloom2708]

I don't think it can ever be all or nothing...and it doesn't have to be.

Millions do all or nothing. I don't consider myself "vegan". I'm attacking this from a pure health perspective rather than "for the animals". The byproduct of eating for health is surprisingly pro-animal.

If we didn't eat so much meat, the cows wouldn't be born, so you can likely state eating less meat isn't good for the animals. We wouldn't need near as many and the feed and ground could be used for other things.

But, if you do it 50%, you get 50% of the benefit. People can gauge if 50 or 70% are enough to miss out on the future heart disease and type 2 diabetes and high blood pressure and high cholesterol. 90% probably does keep you out of the woods.

Most people I know have meat, dairy, cheese, eggs (or a mix of all of them) with 90% of meals and not the opposite.

It isn't a meal without a chunk of meat with melted cheese on it in my extended family. Veggies are eaten with butter and/or melted cheese.

We have our usual distribution of breast cancer, prostate cancer, stroke, heart attack, cholesterol that matches the diet. I can only affect myself and my immediate family a little.

It has been a fascinating journey. My mom asks when I'll go back to "regular eating" quite often. Her cholesterol is 300 on medication. It is rough out there.