This weather is awful!! 2008-2021

[Ronstar]

Great news REWahoo!

Still winter here in n. Illinois. Just got a text from Amazon that my package was delivered. Main reason I shoveled and plowed 7 hrs yesterday was knowing that I had a delivery today. I checked the front door and garage door - no package.

Sure enough, the package was stuck in a snow drift at the other end of my 800’ driveway. Apparently the UPS driver didn’t like my plow job and decided to just leave the package out in the road.

 

[street]

When dh went outside to check the mail, he found this hanging off the side of our house....

Ralphie's mom was right!

I remember a few times as kids, it seemed like someone always wanted to lick the pop cycle. Lol

That lesson was one learned quickly never to do again.

 

[Popeye]

Great news REWahoo!

Still winter here in n. Illinois. Just got a text from Amazon that my package was delivered. Main reason I shoveled and plowed 7 hrs yesterday was knowing that I had a delivery today. I checked the front door and garage door - no package.

Sure enough, the package was stuck in a snow drift at the other end of my 800’ driveway. Apparently the UPS driver didn’t like my plow job and decided to just leave the package out in the road.

I gotta wonder, how far away from the house can a package be left and still be considered delivered? I don’t know where the line is drawn but 800ft is way on the other side of my line !

 

[Ronstar]

I gotta wonder, how far away from the house can a package be left and still be considered delivered? I don’t know where the line is drawn but 800ft is way on the other side of my line !

I agree. It was UPS. The Amazon vans come all the way to the house, but the bigger UPS vans may have a tougher time. I think I’m in for an extended period of UPS deliveries at the street. Good thing they text when the stuff is delivered.

 

[NW-Bound]

I'd hate to be a member of the board of directors at the Electric Reliability Council of Texas right now. Strange how a career choice can suddenly become detrimental to your health and welfare. And talk about a misnomer, the Electric Reliability Council?

I read an article last night on the Web, which quotes an ex-member of some Texas council (could be the above one?). He said that they knew about the hazard of not having the electric generation equipment winterized, but decided not do to it because it cost too much money. Said that it would double the cost of electricity, and he would prefer to be out of electricity once in a while than having to pay double the rate! Hah!

I tried to look for the article again to provide a link here, but failed to find it. It was WSJ, if my memory serves, but WSJ articles are for subscribers only. I read it as a link from Bloomberg, but could not find it there now.

 

[W2R]

I just got a recorded phone call from our power company (Entergy), saying that we need to immediately shut down all non-essential electrical appliances like electric hot water heaters or dryers and so on. I thought, "Oh, OK." My hot water heater and dryer use natural gas. Then they said that if energy usage doesn't drop immediately they are going to have to start blackouts!!! Like in Texas, I guess. It's not even freezing, 43F here at the moment.

I don't get it, but maybe they can shuttle some of our power over to other parts of Louisiana where it's colder.

Well, I have nothing on but my computer and a light bulb so I guess I'm (unintentionally) doing my part.

 

[aaronc879]

I just got a recorded phone call from our power company (Entergy), saying that we need to immediately shut down all non-essential electrical appliances like electric hot water heaters or dryers and so on. I thought, "Oh, OK." My hot water heater and dryer use natural gas. Then they said that if energy usage doesn't drop immediately they are going to have to start blackouts!!! Like in Texas, I guess. It's not even freezing, 43F here at the moment.

I don't get it, but maybe they can shuttle some of our power over to other parts of Louisiana where it's colder.

Well, I have nothing on but my computer and a light bulb so I guess I'm (unintentionally) doing my part.

Turn the heat up a few degrees higher than normal so if the power gets shut off the temp won't drop as low. Charge your phone and computer.

 

[W2R]

Turn the heat up a few degrees higher than normal so if the power gets shut off the temp won't drop as low. Charge your phone and computer.

Thanks, will do! My phone and computer are plugged in already but I'll turn up the (natural gas) heat just in case, thanks again. From what I understand, even though the heat isn't electric it needs electricity for the fans to blow the warmer air out to me.

 

[audreyh1]

Wind and Solar failed big time as you would expect given their nature, but it was crazy that the coal and gas fired plants also went down due to freeze ups. Hard to believe there isn't something in the contracts to reward/penalize for availability when power needs are high.

Yeah, everyone is shocked that the plants aren’t adequately winterized.

 

[audreyh1]

After roughly 60 hours of no electricity (I don't count the three 10 minute teasers) our power came on at 10:45 am today and is still on almost six ours later. It warmed up enough for all the water pipes to thaw, and thankfully our well, pressure pump and all associated piping to and in the house is unscathed. Two thumbs up for the luxury of a hot shower!

I'd hate to be a member of the board of directors at the Electric Reliability Council of Texas right now. Strange how a career choice can suddenly become detrimental to your health and welfare. And talk about a misnomer, the Electric Reliability Council?

So glad things thawed OK and you finally got a hot shower!

 

[RAE]

I read an article last night on the Web, which quotes an ex-member of some Texas council (could be the above one?). He said that they knew about the hazard of not having the electric generation equipment winterized, but decided not do to it because it cost too much money. Said that it would double the cost of electricity, and he would prefer to be out of electricity once in a while than having to pay double the rate! Hah!

I tried to look for the article again to provide a link here, but failed to find it. It was WSJ, if my memory serves, but WSJ articles are for subscribers only. I read it as a link from Bloomberg, but could not find it there now.

Here is an article from today's Washington Post that talks about the same thing: https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...e7e8a1845016986/9/68/602d457d9d2fda4c88e74ce6

 

[Ian S]

Wind and Solar failed big time as you would expect given their nature

Not really sure why you would expect that "given their nature." Wind turbines are utilized in Scandanavia and Canada - they just have to be winterized. Texas utilities determined it would cost too much for a situation that would never happen. Never turned out to be not so long a time. As for solar, it works fine in the winter unless snow builds up too much. In fact once the sky clears, the sun comes out and the temperature drops, solar panels actually produce more electricity! Yes, it's a fact that solar output is inversely related to temperature.

 

[RAE]

Yeah, everyone is shocked that the plants aren’t adequately winterized.

They're not winterized because the operators of the (unregulated) system judged that the cost of doing that would not be worth it, and would cut into profits. That decision didn't work out real well this time. With climate change upon us now, these types of "rare" weather events are going to be much more common in the future (just look at what California has gone through with their fires). If measures are not taken to prepare for what is coming, we can expect a lot more pain in the near future, I'm afraid.

 

[NW-Bound]

They're not winterized because the operators of the (unregulated) system judged that the cost of doing that would not be worth it, and would cut into profits. That decision didn't work out real well this time. With climate change upon us now, these types of "rare" weather events are going to be much more common in the future (just look at what California has gone through with their fires). If measures are not taken to prepare for what is coming, we can expect a lot more pain in the near future, I'm afraid.

People are generally short-sighted. They will not jump, unless their feet are on fire.

Private citizens will have to take care of themselves, the ones who have the money that is. Generac stock price was $50 two years ago. It was $280 one week ago. It is $355 today. They are selling generators like hot cake. I am sure there's a long waiting list for whole-house generators.

The problem with trying to be survive ordeals like this is that your fuel source is going to be a weak point. REWahoo's small portable generator ran through his 12 gallons of fuel in no time. And we have seen that natural gas that is piped into the home got cut too.

If you install a whole-house generator, you will need a big ground-mounted propane tank to go with it. A large 1000-gal tank is 16' long and 41" in diameter. It holds 800 gallons of propane. A full tank will run a 24-kW generator for around 10 days (it burns more than 3 gal/hr).

Given the ravenous fuel consumption of generators, I would go with a smaller generator, in order to use less fuel. In an emergency, one tries to survive, not striving to live as if no disaster is happening outside his home.

 

[street]

In northern states propane generators are a poor choice because of propane freezes up. I beleive around -40 is what they say, when they won't run but I have heard they won't run or will have issues at around -20.

When I go to ranch and try to start a fire at the cabin with a propane torch in the winter it is always trouble.

That actually happened to me today and it wasn't even cold maybe -3 and in cabin maybe around 20 and I could get the propane to ignite. I got a stick match and that was reliable.
Gas or diesel generators highly recommended here.

 

[NW-Bound]

In northern states propane generators are a poor choice because of propane freezes up. I beleive around -40 is what they say, when they won't run but I have heard they won't run or will have issues at around -20.

When I go to ranch and try to start a fire at the cabin with a propane torch in the winter it is always trouble.

That actually happened to me today and it wasn't even cold maybe -3 and in cabin maybe around 20 and I could get the propane to ignite. I got a stick match and that was reliable.
Gas or diesel generators highly recommended here.

Propane boiling temperature is -44F. Butane boiling point is quite warm, at about 32F.

Cigarette or BBQ torch lighters are filled with butane, and that's the problem. And I have read that even the propane you buy at refilling stations often has butane also mixed in. In cold weather, the propane evaporates first, and the butane is left behind. People would have liquid sloshing in their 5-gal BBQ tank, but the gas does not come out.

Gasoline and diesel are not easy to store though. I don't know if you can get a residential tank for 1000 gallons of gasoline or diesel. And you also do not have problems with the shelf life of propane, because it does not go stale.

 

[NW-Bound]

Where I am, cold weather is not a problem. It gets down to below freezing at most 1 or 2 nights a year, and it has not been that cold in 10 years. Summer heat is the problem though, if electricity gets cut.

Enter my DIY solar system. It produces more than 30 kWh today. Production will be higher in the summer. With my battery storage, it's enough to run 1 of the 2 minisplit ACs all 24 hours.

Another potential problem is water. Texas is having a real problem with the water supply right now.

I don't know the risk of the water supply here, but this potential problem is solvable. My 25,000-gal swimming pool comes in handy here. The water is somewhat salty with a lot of minerals, due to the residue from chlorination. If I want to be a thorough prepper, will need to set up a portable RO filter system to get good potable water. I just looked, and it will cost less than a mere $300.

 

[Lsbcal]

NW-Bound, you must stop all this energy talk right now. You are making me look really lazy!

 

[street]

The people I know don't have that large of tanks (1000 gal). If stored it has to be above ground the tank has to be inside a containment container. Most that have generators here are rural people and use their tractors and have fuel on site. Very few have larger then 10KVA (~85Amps) equivalent generator and most equivalent to a 5 or 7 KVA transformer. They don't need to run the whole house and generally wouldn't run it continuously. In rural area it is very common to be out of power and people don't get that excited. Most don't even call it in because they know one of the neighbors most general already has.

 

[audreyh1]

Is showed my nephews in a Amsterdam the icicles hand off our pergola during a FaceTime chat. I forgot to take a picture, darn it!

 

[NW-Bound]

The people I know don't have that large of tanks (1000 gal). If stored it has to be above ground the tank has to be inside a containment container. Most that have generators here are rural people and use their tractors and have fuel on site. Very few have larger then 10KVA (~85Amps) equivalent generator and most equivalent to a 5 or 7 KVA transformer. They don't need to run the whole house and generally wouldn't run it continuously. In rural area it is very common to be out of power and people don't get that excited. Most don't even call it in because they know one of the neighbors most general already has.

Admittedly, the above 16' long 1000-gallon tank is not popular. All my neighbors have a 500-gal tank. The code there allows the tank to be installed outdoors, unprotected but has to be so far from the home. My home is all electric, but that's because I do not live there full-time, much less in the winter, else would have the same tank too.

I don't know if this tank is allowed by all cities in a suburban lot.

 

[Ronstar]

.....And I have read that even the propane you buy at refilling stations often has butane also mixed in. In cold weather, the propane evaporates first, and the butane is left behind. People would have liquid sloshing in their 5-gal BBQ tank, but the gas does not come out..

I wonder if this is why my gas grill won’t start this winter. It’s been sitting outside all winter, and I tried to start it a few weeks ago before temps went below 0. I moved the grill into the garage and left the tank outside. Maybe I need a tank exchange, but the gas station where I get my propane has their tanks outside, so maybe that won’t do any good.

 

[NW-Bound]

... Very few have larger then 10KVA (~85Amps) equivalent generator and most equivalent to a 5 or 7 KVA transformer. They don't need to run the whole house and generally wouldn't run it continuously. In rural area it is very common to be out of power and people don't get that excited. Most don't even call it in because they know one of the neighbors most general already has.

Sure. People in rural areas know to be self-sufficient. On the other hand, rich sissy city folks want a large whole-house generator, because it only costs a bit more. They do not realize that securing the fuel source for it is no simple task.

NW-Bound, you must stop all this energy talk right now. You are making me look really lazy!

Eh, if I were a Californian, I would work day and night until I can be sure I can get power and water in an emergency.

Heck, as we now learn, you cannot take anything for granted, wherever you live.

 

[Ronstar]

My generator is a 16KW Generac. Not quite a whole house. Mine has 16 house circuits connected to it that automatically switch to generator power when the power goes out.

It's a big user of natural gas. It has a 312,000 BTU input, whereas my furnace has a 64,000-80,000 BTU input. So my generator uses 4-5 times more gas than my furnace.

I needed to have my 275 scfh gas meter replaced with a 415 scfh to provide enough gas for the generator.

 

[NW-Bound]

One hopes that the nat gas supply chain is robust enough to stand up against disasters that take out the electric grid. Texans with whole-house generators are really disappointed when their nat gas supply is also cut off.

And speaking about this terrible cold spell, I read that Galveston County has requested refrigerated trucks to hold bodies of victims of this disaster. There have been only a couple of dozen cases, but they expect to find more. It's so sad.