Whole house generator

[Big_Hitter]

Ironically, having a natural gas generator wouldn't have fared well given the gas problems.

my neighborhood lost power for 3 weeks during Ike - the natural gas never went out - it didn't go out for my mom last month either. That's why people use natural gas in Houston

 

[Big_Hitter]

In my surfing today, I came across this story. The guy converts a large portable gasoline generator to a natural gas whole house generator. Says he did it for around $2,500.

https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/di...e-of-whole-home-generator-at-fraction-of-cost

I like how he put it in a box and included a ventilation/cooling fan.

that sounds about right - those are good if you have a lot of fuel. I've used one of those before to power a home and I spent a lot of time refueling.

 

[Music Lover]

https://bestclassicbands.com/gene-taylor-musician-obituary-blasters-2-21-21/

Gene died of hypothermia, seriously, hypothermia, in Austin? When I moved from the gulf coast I made sure my parents had a residential standby generator installed for their safety and well being. My Mom never ran out of heat or electricity last month, plus she uses a nebulizer.

Cold kills 20x as many people as heat does, even in what is considered to be normally warm areas.

 

[Jerry1]

that sounds about right - those are good if you have a lot of fuel. I've used one of those before to power a home and I spent a lot of time refueling.

He converted it to natural gas. Simple conversion kit and had a plumber run a gas line.

 

[Big_Hitter]

Cold kills 20x as many people as heat does, even in what is considered to be normally warm areas.

it's upsetting because it's preventable; I got to see Gene play when he was with the blasters about 40 years ago

 

[iloveyoga]

We were looking at a whole house generator before the Texas storm. I just accepted the bid and got on the waiting list. DH has wanted one for a long time.

 

[Music Lover]

it's upsetting because it's preventable; I got to see Gene play when he was with the blasters about 40 years ago

I live in a cold climate so well insulated houses are normal but I am a little surprised that so many homes in warm places are not adequately insulated. After all, it's not cheap to run AC and in a poorly insulated house I imagine the cost for cooling can get pretty high.

 

[REWahoo]

I live in a cold climate so well insulated houses are normal but I am a little surprised that so many homes in warm places are not adequately insulated.

Why do you think that is the case? Maybe I missed something in the thread...

 

[Music Lover]

Why do you think that is the case? Maybe I missed something in the thread...

Did I miss something obvious? It wouldn't be the first time...

 

[Ronstar]

Our area got hit by tornados in November 2013 and June 2015. Although we didn't have any house damage in either of these 2 events, there were a lot of downed trees where our electricity was off for a week each time.

I was able to find a portable generator in 2013 that provided just enough power for our refrigerator, well and water heater.

But I didn't like having to keep filling it up with gas and switching the 220 plug back and forth between water heater and well. So I bought the Generac and installed it in 2015 - 2 weeks before the 2015 tornado hit.

There was another extended power outage during a summer prior to 2013, but I can't remember the details - other than I bathed in our lake for a week.

And another instance prior to the generator - I rinsed our Thanksgiving Turkey in the lake prior to deep frying it. Our power went out when a lightning strike hit our power pole and set it on fire. After frying it our power wasn't yet on, so we brought it to SIL's for dinner.

 

[Big_Hitter]

I live in a cold climate so well insulated houses are normal but I am a little surprised that so many homes in warm places are not adequately insulated. After all, it's not cheap to run AC and in a poorly insulated house I imagine the cost for cooling can get pretty high.

I moved from Houston to Idaho about 10 years ago - needless to say, the houses up here are extremely well insulated, not sure why they aren't better insulated in and around the gulf coast, but you are correct

 

[Big_Hitter]

Why do you think that is the case? Maybe I missed something in the thread...

peoples pipes busting inside the house

 

[ncbill]

As has been mentioned several times in this thread, there are other options besides doing nothing and spending $10-$20 thousand on a whole house generator.

As my local weather forecaster mused when her power went out, "I could spend a LOT of nights at the Hilton for the cost of a whole house generator". Although a little tongue in check, there's some logic there too (assuming the outage is localized and hotels are available).

The events in Texas were unfortunate and tragic. Ironically, having a natural gas generator wouldn't have fared well given the gas problems. Gasoline portable generators would've faired better IF you had stockpiled a lot of gasoline ahead of time. Having a large propane tank and system was probably the best combination this time.

It's hard to anticipate all calamities in life. In the event of a flood, a portable generator can be easily moved to higher ground ahead of time. Like in the back of the used pickup truck you bought instead of a $12k generator.

Assuming one can get to a hotel with power...here when power fails for days in wintertime it usually means an ice storm with 1/2" (or more) of ice coating everything...I for sure wouldn't want to be out driving in those conditions.

A kerosene heater is probably the cheapest option for heat, though it's best to have them on some type of platform (e.g. kid's little red metal wagon) you can wheel in and out of the home for startup/shutdown (when the most odor is generated) and refueling.

My in-laws just fire up the wood stove insert installed in their basement fireplace.

They used to have a free-standing wood stove there that was used for primary heat before natural gas came to their neighborhood since the home was built only with electric resistance heat.

Even back in the 1960s when they moved into their home the latter was too expensive to use full-time.

 

[NW-Bound]

I saw an article on Bloomberg which includes an EIA map on how people in different states in the US heat their home.

Surprisingly, 60% of people in Texas heat their home with electricity (using heat pumps). This is about the same as Arizona.

Another surprising thing is only 20% of California households use electricity for heating. What do they use? I guess it's natural gas, because who uses coal or oil burners anymore.

Nationwide, about 40% of people heat with electricity.

PS. I found an EIA map similar to what is shown in the Bloomberg article, but this one does not show numbers.

 

[Texas Proud]

Yes, natural gas is a concern as I heard it was 'frozen' in Dallas by the Generac rep that was down here talking about them...


I would like to find one that can be switched easily from propane to natural gas and have a 100 to 125 gal tank there that would run a few days... but I do not think any are dual fuel...


We never lost our gas... during the hurricanes we never lost gas either... our biggest concern would be hurricanes but who knows for sure...

 

[Whisper66]

I live in a cold climate so well insulated houses are normal but I am a little surprised that so many homes in warm places are not adequately insulated. After all, it's not cheap to run AC and in a poorly insulated house I imagine the cost for cooling can get pretty high.

Homes are insulated to varying levels through out the country based on what is considered cost effective for the climate. See government recommendations below. BTW - similar economics is why our Texas wind energy failed in the recent cold snap when clearly wind energy can and is hardened for colder climates up north.

https://www.energystar.gov/campaign...ix/diy_checks_inspections/insulation_r_values

 

[Texas Proud]

Just was thinking about some who question the cost of a generator...


Do you have a car that is more than an econobox? If so, then you are wasting money... a civic or corolla is good transportation...



Do you buy a car more often than every 20 years? If so, then you are wasting money.. Cars last a LONG time now...


There are many financial decision we make that others do not agree with and seem wasteful to others, but it gives a good feeling to the buyer...


For my sister it will not make a difference in her lifestyle... she has plenty of money and will not miss it at all and it will give her peace of mind...

 

[Koolau]

I saw an article on Bloomberg which includes an EIA map on how people in different states in the US heat their home.

Surprisingly, 60% of people in Texas heat their home with electricity (using heat pumps). This is about the same as Arizona.

Another surprising thing is only 20% of California households use electricity for heating. What do they use? I guess it's natural gas, because who uses coal or oil burners anymore.

Nationwide, about 40% of people heat with electricity.

PS. I found an EIA map similar to what is shown in the Bloomberg article, but this one does not show numbers.

Heh, heh, gray is good!

But actually, folks about a couple of thousand feet need heat and it's typically electric OR some sort of wood burner (fireplace or stove.) Spent the better part of a week in Volcano on Big Island at a friend's B & B. IIRC they were at about 4000 ft. Morning temps were upper 50s which feels REALLY cold to me now. In addition to a fire place, our hosts used electric space heaters and lots of clothes/hoodies, etc. Their living space never exceeded 65 degrees. At night, they provided electric blankets. (DW and I got our controllers mixed up - that was an interesting night until we figured it out.)

At more than 30 cents/KWH, electrical heating is very expensive - and there are not very many heat pumps in the Islands. If you need heat, you probably never need AC and vice versa. So heat pumps are an expensive solution to an intermittent "problem." YMMV

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

That's bit more extreme than I'd like but the basic idea is there. Our house, for example is in an extreme cold climate...but it's also very well insulated. In an extended power failure (we've never had one in my entire life) on the coldest time of the year I could get by with generating power 1 hour every 4-6 hours, mostly to run the furnace.

In the 32 years we've lived here I can recall only one outage that lasted more than 24 hours.

 

[RetiredAt55.5]

Just was thinking about some who question the cost of a generator...

Do you have a car that is more than an econobox? If so, then you are wasting money... a civic or corolla is good transportation...

Do you buy a car more often than every 20 years? If so, then you are wasting money.. Cars last a LONG time now...

There are many financial decision we make that others do not agree with and seem wasteful to others, but it gives a good feeling to the buyer...

Yup, completely agree. It's a choice. Lots of pros and cons.

But to swing the generator, someone might have to settle for the civic or corolla.

I am surprised nobody responded with the answer -
"Cost to own a whole house generator, well it's priceless."

 

[Music Lover]

In the 32 years we've lived here I can recall only one outage that lasted more than 24 hours.

When I stated we've never had a power failure, I meant an extended one. We usually get one or two power outages a year for between 1 and 3 hours. The longest one I can recall was 6 hours. Other than inconvenient, outages of that length are harmless.

 

[finnski1]

When I stated we've never had a power failure, I meant an extended one. We usually get one or two power outages a year for between 1 and 3 hours. The longest one I can recall was 6 hours. Other than inconvenient, outages of that length are harmless.

13 days without power in the 2008 ice storm here. After day 6 days I got a 5500w portable generator for $599 at Home Depot. Used it many times since as well. Shut off the main power breaker and backfeed the generator thru my 230v dryer outlet. Runs the whole house this way(never have to shut circuits off)including boiler, well pump, microwave,toaster, frig etc. though it does bog down a little with the microwave or a stove top burner but keeps going fine.

 

[bjorn2bwild]

13 days without power in the 2008 ice storm here. After day 6 days I got a 5500w portable generator for $599 at Home Depot. Used it many times since as well. Shut off the main power breaker and backfeed the generator thru my 230v dryer outlet. Runs the whole house this way(never have to shut circuits off)including boiler, well pump, microwave,toaster, frig etc. though it does bog down a little with the microwave or a stove top burner but keeps going fine.

As you say, back-feeding works great, is simple and can probably be done safely.
However, it is illegal in any circumstance I am aware of - at least in the US, especially where the neutral is bonded to ground.

 

[travelover]

As you say, back-feeding works great, is simple and can probably be done safely.
However, it is illegal in any circumstance I am aware of - at least in the US, especially where the neutral is bonded to ground.

Right. An interlock can be installed fairly inexpensively to make it all legal and fool proof.

 

[NW-Bound]

Heh, heh, gray is good!

But actually, folks about a couple of thousand feet need heat and it's typically electric OR some sort of wood burner (fireplace or stove.) Spent the better part of a week in Volcano on Big Island at a friend's B & B. IIRC they were at about 4000 ft. Morning temps were upper 50s which feels REALLY cold to me now. In addition to a fire place, our hosts used electric space heaters and lots of clothes/hoodies, etc. Their living space never exceeded 65 degrees. At night, they provided electric blankets. (DW and I got our controllers mixed up - that was an interesting night until we figured it out.)

At more than 30 cents/KWH, electrical heating is very expensive - and there are not very many heat pumps in the Islands. If you need heat, you probably never need AC and vice versa. So heat pumps are an expensive solution to an intermittent "problem." YMMV

I don't think a heat pump costs a lot more than an AC, and you do need an AC in Hawaii. At least, I do when I go there.

Upper 50's is cold to you? At my 2nd home at the AZ high country (7000 ft), the average low in winter is in the teens, and my thermostat is set at 45F. I do not stay up there much in the winter now, but used to stay a week or so at a time. You can get used to anything.

When I had visitors, and had to raise the thermostat to 70F, the HVAC ran nonstop. It is a heatpump, but has a 2-stage resistance heater. It automatically kicks in one resistance heater, then the next one if the temperature keeps dropping. Kaching!

Full-time residents there could not afford electric heating like we have. They all use propane for heating, and the norm there is a 500-gal external ground mounted tank.