Covid Vaccine Distribution

[explanade]

Neither AstraZenica nor J&J are "old school". Obviously Pfizer and Moderna are not old school. All 4 are made with genetic engineering techniques that load the recipe for some portion of the spike protein into "a thing", then that thing utilizes the machinery of your living human cells to manufacture spikes. Bits of those spikes are presented on the surface of the cell, and that triggers immune response. So J&J might have got lucky or smart and picked genetic sequences that are a better match for the variants, but it works the same way as the rest. The "thing" (vector) is in two cases, a lipid nano particle, and in the other two cases, a genetically engineered adenovirus. The vector, dose size and regimen, will cause differences, but these 4 are all pretty similar in that they expect the cell's machinery to build spikes. Novavax isn't available yet, but that one is different...it builds the spikes in the factory. And the killed virus types, which are true "old school", also, the spikes are built outside the body, in culture.

Old school to me would be cuddling up with a bat with a fever hoping you get inoculated. Kind of like milk maids and cow pox.

All the COVID-19 vaccines are most definitely new world and the future of our medicine. And of course, this freaks out people like my sister and older cousin who sent me all kinds of crap links about why I should never get a COVID vaccine. I never even watched a second of them, just trashed the texts.

Old school vaccines would be those using a weakened or inactivated virus to provoke an immune response.

One of the Chinese vaccines use this method but it takes longer to manufacture.

I did read that one theory is that the adenovirus vectors such as J&J may produce a longer immune response than the mRNA but we don't know that yet.

 

[explanade]

Thanks for this- I need to work on DS, age 35, who's skeptical about the vaccine because it was rushed out so quickly. It's not a political or an anti-vax thing- it was a weighing of the risks of COVID vs. the risks of the vaccine. If he's worried about short-term effects he'll have seen enough doses and so few severe reactions that I think he'll be OK. If he's worried that 20 years down the line they'll find you're at higher risk for something unrelated, maybe the J&J version will be less intimidating. He's got a dependent wife and 3 children (DDIL seems to be leaning towards vaccination) and enjoys excellent health so I hope he changes his mind.

They were doing the first human injections a year ago, though I'm not sure if it was the same dosage.

The Phase 3 trials for Moderna and Pfizer were done from late summer and early fall so we're coming up on 6-7 months for those folks.


Otherwise if some people are going to wait a couple of years to see how the earliest vaccinated people are faring, then they're more likely to contract covid.

Whatever their reasoning, the people who decline vaccinations will just prolong the pandemic.

 

[MrsHaloFIRE]

I see a number of people really looking for the J&J vaccine rather than the others. I'm just curious if this is strictly for the convenience "one and done" aspect or is there some other particularly desirable characteristic. My interest is purely academic as I've already boarded the Moderna train at this point, but I would have been entirely happy with any of the ones available.

I have also noticed people certain folks seem more gungho on J and J vice pfizer/moderna and my gut feeling is because theyve heard of johnson and johnson forever bc thats who makes good old fashioned bandaids. and baby wash. and a thousand other consumer products they have turned to for years. Moderna never made them anything as far as they know. However, I did overhear the argument that since J and J made baby powder, and they have found a distant link from baby powder to ovarian cancer (maybe), some people think J and J is at fault and they dont trust their shot as a result because reasons. Im not following the logic bc its not the baby powder its the talc in the baby powder MAYBE. and talc is in the face makeup they used today probably. SO in summary I think people latch onto things with wildass logic. THis goes for almost any consumer good, saving behavior, whatever. People have their own reasons be they illinformed or wellinformed. Boho wont go to the dentist and almost the entire board shakes their head. But hes gonna do what hes gonna do. Some folks are gonna choose J and J for that reason alone.

Some folks also think J and J is an "oldfashioned" shot. It aint that either. But maybe common cold virus i.e. adenovirus seems more comforting than Mrna bc that sounds close to dna and this bill gates shot is gonna reprogram me underneath this tinfoil helmet.

 

[gayl]

IMHO you're overthinking it. Has nothing to do with old VS new. Has the do with 1 and done is good enough to avoid death. For a lot of the people I know, Covid-19 seems to be like a really bad sickness with a low fatality rate for (my) age / gender group (1.3% since it 1st came on scene including when no one knew how to effectively treat). My BMI is in normal range [24.9], physically fit, no current underlying condition, non smoker so my personal risk factor would be less.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm

 

[MrsHaloFIRE]

I remember a time at the beginning of the pandemic when it was virtually impossible to find hand sanitizer. And if you did find it, the price gouging was outrageous. Now, I go to Costco and see pallets of hand sanitizer for $8.00/gallon and nobody is buying it.

I can’t help but think that the vaccine will follow a similar pattern. In a fairly short time we will go from it being very difficult to get an appointment to a point where you can walk up to any pharmacy and get a shot on the spot with no wait. And I don’t think we are more than a couple of months away from that happening.

DH has been saying this for months. He thinks by summer getting a covid shot will be like picking up a cheeseburger. Decent demand, plenty of options and available, wont require prior planning. It will be in the shot fridge next to the flu and tetanus vials and not a big deal. SUpply gonna hopefully keep pumping up, and pent up demand will eventually wear down. WHich is good bc Im betting that by winter we will have another kinda fullcourt press for boosters. Do yall remember the really sweet immunization you suck out of the little ketchup package thing? I remember it as a child. Maybe we will get to that point. Heres your little covid ketchup package. Let me watch you suck it down. Drive forward to get your coffee at the next window.

 

[JoeWras]

Old school vaccines would be those using a weakened or inactivated virus to provoke an immune response.

Yes. I was being a wise-ass talking about cuddling up to bats.

Cuddling up to cows with pustules is no joke. Using cows and their pox to create a vaccine was the first, real, old school way of doing things. And it wasn't always exactly safe. We've come a long way from scratching cow pus into our skin.

 

[explanade]

J&J vaccine is from a smaller company called Janssen.

These pharma giants just partner with smaller companies which do the actual research and the big companies do the logistics including organizing trials.

 

[Al in Ohio]

I can understand that. But I literally did not feel the shot I got yesterday. Later in the day I could feel a little soreness, and last night it wasn't comfortable to lay on that side. When I walked out of there I was almost worried for a few minutes that the pharmacist put a syringe with no needle to my arm, though I did see the needle before he stuck me.

I’m no fan of shots either but I literally did not feel a thing on my first Pfizer shot. Soreness that evening, but no pain with the person administering the shot.

 

[braumeister]

Using cows and their pox to create a vaccine was the first, real, old school way of doing things. And it wasn't always exactly safe. We've come a long way from scratching cow pus into our skin.

Nonetheless, it was advanced, cutting edge science at the time.

 

[Amethyst]

My husband felt nothing either time. He claims he had no reaction, but I noticed he was more tired than usual the day after the second shot.

I’m no fan of shots either but I literally did not feel a thing on my first Pfizer shot. Soreness that evening, but no pain with the person administering the shot.

 

[Amethyst]

And a lot of people were scared of it, including people who went and got the vaccine anyway because pox scared them worse.

In 1776, Abigail Adams brought her four kids to Boston to get them inoculated, knowing that all of them would get the disease, hoping it would not be as bad as the real thing. Her letters show she discussed it in advance with John Adams, who was in Philadelphia.

Nonetheless, it was advanced, cutting edge science at the time.

 

[Out-to-Lunch]

Yes. I was being a wise-ass talking about cuddling up to bats.

Cuddling up to cows with pustules is no joke. Using cows and their pox to create a vaccine was the first, real, old school way of doing things. And it wasn't always exactly safe. We've come a long way from scratching cow pus into our skin.

And, of course, this is why we call this treatment a vaccine, ultimately from the Latin, vacca, meaning "cow."

 

[MichaelB]

And, of course, this is why we call this treatment a vaccine, ultimately from the Latin, vacca, meaning "cow."

So, vaccinate means “I ate a cow”?

 

[RetireBy90]

I can understand that. But I literally did not feel the shot I got yesterday. Later in the day I could feel a little soreness, and last night it wasn't comfortable to lay on that side. When I walked out of there I was almost worried for a few minutes that the pharmacist put a syringe with no needle to my arm, though I did see the needle before he stuck me.

Just wait till the dentists are pulled in to assist in giving shots. They will hide the syringe behind the back while they distract you. Or the vets, they will pinch you before the jab.

 

[athena53]

Otherwise if some people are going to wait a couple of years to see how the earliest vaccinated people are faring, then they're more likely to contract covid.

Whatever their reasoning, the people who decline vaccinations will just prolong the pandemic.

I know- I need to work on DS some more. He's 35 so won't be eligible for awhile. He told me how much life insurance he has and I'm thinking of asking him to picture DDIL, her second husband and the kids living high off the hog.

Today I got a text message from the medical center asking me to confirm that I'll be there on 3/27 for my second dose. Hell to the yes.

 

[Out-to-Lunch]

So, vaccinate means “I ate a cow”?

 

[Chuckanut]

I know- I need to work on DS some more. He's 35 so won't be eligible for awhile. He told me how much life insurance he has and I'm thinking of asking him to picture DDIL, her second husband and the kids living high off the hog.

Today I got a text message from the medical center asking me to confirm that I'll be there on 3/27 for my second dose. Hell to the yes.

My guess is that you are like me and many others here - Barely old enough to remember knowing a few people who were among the last to get polio just before the vaccine squashed it. You might share that thought with him. Who wants to be that last person to get a serious case of Covid and/or be the last Long Hauler?

 

[SecondCor521]

My guess is that you are like me and many others here - Barely old enough to remember knowing a few people who were among the last to get polio just before the vaccine squashed it. You might share that thought with him. Who wants to be that last person to get a serious case of Covid and/or be the last Long Hauler?

Indeed. Makes me think of the last soldier to die in WWI:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Gunther

 

[Amethyst]

I watched while they gave Mr. A. his shots through the car window. There was a cafeteria table with syringes laid out, each on a square of paper. It reminded me of one of those parties where the glasses of wine are already full and sitting out for people to grab...getting warmer and warmer by the minute. Still it only took about 2 minutes to a) ask a few questions and b) stick his arm, and they were on to the next person.

 

[athena53]

My guess is that you are like me and many others here - Barely old enough to remember knowing a few people who were among the last to get polio just before the vaccine squashed it. You might share that thought with him. Who wants to be that last person to get a serious case of Covid and/or be the last Long Hauler?

Our church Business Manager was a polio survivor. The entire time I knew her she used a scooter to get around. Her mother asked the doctor about polio and he said it was overblown and she should be allowed to use the public pools if she wanted to.

As I said- I'll work on DS. He and I are on opposite sides of many things but we have good, thoughtful discussions and are willing to listen to other points of view.

 

[Amethyst]

That is like a Nextdoor discussion I recall, before I dropped Nextdoor for complete uselessness. Some woman was going on about how her nurse friends were telling her that the virus was no big deal, overblown, and masks were a hoax.

Our church Business Manager was a polio survivor. The entire time I knew her she used a scooter to get around. Her mother asked the doctor about polio and he said it was overblown and she should be allowed to use the public pools if she wanted to.

.

 

[RobbieB]

Oh yeah, no inoculations for me I might go autistic. It'll give me the covid...

I'mma gonna get my second dose on monday.

Pseudo science and lawyers. Show me the money!

 

[Gumby]

As the young wife told me, "If you're worried about brain damage, that ship sailed long ago."

 

[audreyh1]

So, vaccinate means “I ate a cow”?

The word vaccine, and vaccination, actually comes from the name for a pox virus—the cowpox virus, vaccinia, to be exact.

https://www.sciencefriday.com/articles/the-origin-of-the-word-vaccine/

 

[audreyh1]

My guess is that you are like me and many others here - Barely old enough to remember knowing a few people who were among the last to get polio just before the vaccine squashed it. You might share that thought with him. Who wants to be that last person to get a serious case of Covid and/or be the last Long Hauler?

It’s a tough be because it’s true that we don’t know about potential long term effects, so we are taking some unknown risks with the vaccine trading off against known risks of bad outcomes for those of us older. However, on the other hand, as the virus keeps spreading among unvaccinated, it keeps mutating in a worldwide laboratory. Unfortunately, I don’t see how that stops, and I don’t have a feel for how much difference US vaccine naysayers will make in that.