A will - how to approach this dilemma of mine?

[tmm99]

We don't have a will yet, and we're planning to have someone draw it up (or draw it up ourselves), but we aren't sure what's the best way (or a good way) to approach this dilemma of mine...

Here's my dilemma. I married DH several years ago. Second marriage for both of us. I have no children of my own. DH has two daughters who live with their mom (Daughters - 17, and 18 yrs old). If I die first, I want DH to get all my money and spend it all. If he goes first, I'm totally fine sharing his money with his children. (I think the default in my province is that the first 200K comes to me and the rest will be split three ways equally (me and his two children.) The house will automatically be mine as it's owned jointly with survivorship rights.) Having said that, I have trouble accepting all my money going to his children if DH dies shortly after I do (up to several years? Not sure), but we don't know how to curtail this particular condition in a will. What if there's 5M left vs 100K left? That's another question, but I don't need to get into that kind of detail if I don't have to...

Are you in a similar situation? If If you are, what is your plan? If you're not, what would you do in my situation? What's common?

I was going to give some background to the story, but I figured it probably wasn't necessary, so I kept this post short(er) although I could add the background later if necessary...

 

[RunningBum]

I would get an estate attorney for this kind of situation. If I got remarried I would certainly get one.

 

[Dash man]

It’s a second marriage for my wife and I with each of us having a son. In Pennsylvania where we live, if we didn’t have a will or trust, each spouse would get everything. If the surviving spouse died shortly after, that second to die spouse’s child would have gotten everything. So we did a will and trusts to ensure our estate would be divided according to our wishes.
Each state/country is different, so I recommend you speak to an attorney that specializes in estate planning and knows the law where you live.

 

[MichaelB]

I would get an estate attorney for this kind of situation. If I got remarried I would certainly get one.

Good advice. A trust is probably the best option, common for people in second marriages with children from earlier marriages.

 

[MarieIG]

Sounds like you will want a testamentary trust. Up to 100% of the proceeds/ principal can be used for his care - the remaining upon his death - if any is divided as follows . . . (for example 1/3 daughters/ 2/3 charities or whatever you wish).

If you leave it to him outright, you can't ensure that he spends it on himself; or that someone doesn't take advantage of him at an older age.

The amount is significant when it comes to choosing trustee(s).

You will can provide if there must be a certain amount left to set up the trust. Per your example, I wouldn't bother for 100k - might as well leave it to him outright, or give a directive to buy him a SPIA (which of course, would only last for his lifetime).

 

[pb4uski]

You could have the money go into a trust when you die with DH as the beneficiary and then define what happens if he dies... whether whatever is left in the trust goes to charities or your step-daughters or some combination thereof.

 

[RunningBum]

Note that the OP is in Canada. I'm not sure if there's any difference there related to trusts and such.

 

[ivinsfan]

What do you want to happen to the money in this circumstance?


Do you have family or a special cause you would donate to?


Does your DH have plenty to live on after you are gone if you simply make your donations at the time of your death..seems like that would be easiest if possible.

 

[tmm99]

What do you want to happen to the money in this circumstance?


Do you have family or a special cause you would donate to?


Does your DH have plenty to live on after you are gone if you simply make your donations at the time of your death..seems like that would be easiest if possible.

No plans to donate. I want to give it to my relatives, if not friends.

The hard part is that we won't know if DH will have plenty at the time of my death. We're in our early 60s/mid 50s now, so anything costly (e.g. long-term care for years) later in life could leave us with very little money at the end. Because of this, I don't want to just give the money away to someone else at the time of my death. I want all my money to go to DH. I just don't want all my money to go to DH's children when he dies (after I do), especially if the inheritance is not tiny.

 

[Sunset]

No plans to donate. I want to give it to my relatives, if not friends.

The hard part is that we won't know if DH will have plenty at the time of my death. We're in our early 60s/mid 50s now, so anything costly (e.g. long-term care for years) later in life could leave us with very little money at the end. Because of this, I don't want to just give the money away to someone else at the time of my death. I want all my money to go to DH. I just don't want all my money to go to DH's children when he dies (after I do), especially if the inheritance is not tiny.

In Ontario, long term nursing home care is not as expensive as the USA.
https://www.ontario.ca/page/get-help-paying-long-term-care

They are set by the Province, example:
"Long-stay Private monthly rate:
$2,701.61" or less.

Since you say the inheritance is not tiny, I doubt you will run out.

 

[Sunset]

DW & I each have our Wills give some money to various relatives, and the large remainder to the other.
Rather than all going to spouse and letting the relatives wait for both to die before getting anything.

 

[tmm99]

I would get an estate attorney for this kind of situation. If I got remarried I would certainly get one.

Good advice. A trust is probably the best option, common for people in second marriages with children from earlier marriages.

Each state/country is different, so I recommend you speak to an attorney that specializes in estate planning and knows the law where you live.

Thank you for all your comments and advice.

I should talk to an estate lawyer and tell them what I want and see what they suggest. I feel like I want some kind of flowchart that can branch off to different conditions and associated actions, but I don't want it to get too complicated either.

 

[ivinsfan]

If I'm reading you correctly, if your DH passes shortly after you do, you would like the money he got when you died to go directly to your family and maybe some to his kids.


That's because the money you left for his future security wasn't used for that purpose. Maybe figure out how to keep that money segregated until he needs to use it? Remembering that you DH will be aging too and the simple way is usually easier.

 

[CaliKid]

Second marriages, when kids involved, are typically much more involved than people realize until they meet with a well qualified estate planning attorney. This is definitely not a DIY situation. Also, not a situation for a rookie attorney or general practitioner. Find an experienced expert who is highly focused on estate planning.

 

[tmm99]

You could have the money go into a trust when you die with DH as the beneficiary and then define what happens if he dies... whether whatever is left in the trust goes to charities or your step-daughters or some combination thereof.

I don't know enough about trusts/wills, so I don't know how putting the money into a trust with DH as the beneficiary is different from giving him the whole thing... Putting the money into a trust must igive more options?

To be honest, I hadn't thought of will/trust, etc until very recently, but everyone is suggesting a trust over a will, so that's what I'll most likely do with an estate lawyer...

 

[tmm99]

In Ontario, long term nursing home care is not as expensive as the USA.
https://www.ontario.ca/page/get-help-paying-long-term-care

They are set by the Province, example:
"Long-stay Private monthly rate:
$2,701.61" or less.

Since you say the inheritance is not tiny, I doubt you will run out.

That doesn't sound too bad, does it.

I'm sure there are other potential or catastrophic circumstances that will deplete our assets/net worth. The long-term care cost was just one example I could think of...

 

[tmm99]

DW & I each have our Wills give some money to various relatives, and the large remainder to the other.
Rather than all going to spouse and letting the relatives wait for both to die before getting anything.

I want all my money to go to DH when I pass.

 

[tmm99]

If I'm reading you correctly, if your DH passes shortly after you do, you would like the money he got when you died to go directly to your family and maybe some to his kids.

That's because the money you left for his future security wasn't used for that purpose.

Yes, that's the gist of it. I'm not sure how long/short "shortly after" should be defined, however. And if there's very little money left at the end of his life (I haven't defined what "very little money" is either...), I wouldn't bother, but if there's a lot left, I'd want my relatives/friends to benefit some from it as well as his two daughters. Also, if there's a lot left, it may not be a good idea to give his daughters all the money all at once, depending upon how old they are when that happens...

Maybe figure out how to keep that money segregated until he needs to use it?

Can you elaborate on the "keep that money segregated" part? How can you do that?

 

[tmm99]

Sounds like you will want a testamentary trust. Up to 100% of the proceeds/ principal can be used for his care - the remaining upon his death - if any is divided as follows . . . (for example 1/3 daughters/ 2/3 charities or whatever you wish).

If you leave it to him outright, you can't ensure that he spends it on himself; or that someone doesn't take advantage of him at an older age.

The amount is significant when it comes to choosing trustee(s).

You will can provide if there must be a certain amount left to set up the trust. Per your example, I wouldn't bother for 100k - might as well leave it to him outright, or give a directive to buy him a SPIA (which of course, would only last for his lifetime).

Thank you for your advice. I don't know what the "testamentary trust" is yet, but I will learn more about it!

 

[ivinsfan]

Yes, that's the gist of it. I'm not sure how long/short "shortly after" should be defined, however. And if there's very little money left at the end of his life (I haven't defined what "very little money" is either...), I wouldn't bother, but if there's a lot left, I'd want my relatives/friends to benefit some from it as well as his two daughters. Also, if there's a lot left, it may not be a good idea to give his daughters all the money all at once, depending upon how old they are when that happens...



Can you elaborate on the "keep that money segregated" part? How can you do that?

The segregated part would be what you need to talk to the lawyer about...be it trust, certain accounts consisting of money he got from you.. your DH would label POD (to your family) and such.

 

[tmm99]

The segregated part would be what you need to talk to the lawyer about...be it trust, certain accounts consisting of money he got from you.. your DH would label POD (to your family) and such.

Ah, got it. Thanks! That sounds like a great idea, as long as it's easy to get the money out when needed.

 

[tmm99]

I've just realized that I wasn't thinking of the possibility of DH remarrying after I die...

 

[RunningBum]

I've just realized that I wasn't thinking of the possibility of DH remarrying after I die...

Yep, he remarries...then he dies. Your money might not even go to his kids, but rather someone you don't even know. Then again, your dead, so you won't know it happened, if that's any consolation.

An experienced estate attorney should understand all of these scenarios and know how to best handle them.

 

[tmm99]

Yep, he remarries...then he dies. Your money might not even go to his kids, but rather someone you don't even know. Then again, your dead, so you won't know it happened, if that's any consolation.

An experienced estate attorney should understand all of these scenarios and know how to best handle them.

I know! I was thinking the same thing, seriously! If I'm dead, I won't know either way, so who cares! I don't know if that's the right attitude to have or not, but that thought has come to my mind several times since I started thinking about this whole estate planning thing!

I looked into a bit more, and it looks like cross-border estate planning (US citizen living in Canada married to UK-Candian living in Canada) is quite complicated and I will need a special, cross-border estate lawyer and it's going to cost a bundle even if I decide to take the simplest route (I die, DH gets all, and when DH dies, his heirs gets it all). But I do need a cross-border estate lawyer if I want to minimize the cross-border estate tax consequences. (Again, I'm thinking, "Do I really care if half of the inheritance goes to taxes?" If I'm dead, It's not like I can benefit from that money anyway. )

 

[badatmath]

I've just realized that I wasn't thinking of the possibility of DH remarrying after I die...

Pretty common for someone who is older - my step dad is on his third marriage after losing 2 wives to cancer - (not sure he is still my step if he no longer married to my mom but hardly matters as he has dementia and doesn't know up from down most days.).