California Housewife -- Retired?

[Housewife51]

Hi all --

My husband retired in 2020 at 60, and I've been a stay-at-home mom and housewife for 28 of our 31 year marriage. He's happy as can be about retiring after 35 years of working for the same company.

I worked full-time until we had our first child 28 years ago, and I worked part-time from 2003 to 2013. We have two other children ages 25 and 23, and the youngest is still in college for which we are paying.

Our finances have always been mingled, including the minimal amount of money I earned with my part-time jobs. We have plenty of money for retirement, but we don't share the same ideas about how to invest that money. My husband recently announced that his pension and 401K are now "his" money only, and I get no say in how it's handled. That was a bit of a gut-punch, because it makes me feel like my contributions to running a household and raising our children were worth nothing.

I'm not worried about running out of money as I will inherit half my parent's estate soon and it will be around $3 million, but to be told that suddenly we have "his money" and "my money" is really disconcerting.

I guess I never gave much thought to my own "retirement," since a housewife doesn't really ever get to retire, but suddenly it seems we don't have similar goals. This wasn't what I expected from retirement.

 

[qwerty3656]

That seems like a crazy position for him to take - did you tell him the $3 million from your parents was "your money" - I could see something like that triggering him?

 

[njhowie]

Welcome aboard.

Regardless of what your husband says, California law says it's half yours should push come to shove.

https://www.ielawoffice.com/family-law/retirement-401k-plan-division/

Under California's community property rules, retirement plans — like all assets of the marriage — must be divided in half. For 401(k) and other pension plans, this means that the non-participant spouse shall receive 50 percent of the value of the retirement plan accrued during the length of the marriage.

And, the inheritance is not community property - that is entirely yours.

https://www.ratzerfamilylaw.com/2020/07/is-my-inheritance-considered-community-property.shtml

In general, one spouse's inheritance (as well as gifts given to one spouse) will remain separate property during a marriage in California. An exception exists, however, if you assign joint ownership to your spouse, such as you both signing your names on a vehicle title.Jul 13, 2020

 

[Aerides]

Is this the first event in 31 years that makes you believe you are not on the same page, or, at least, in the last 5 years or so? Is everything else normal and ok besides this area or is this a sign of something bigger...I'd probably have probed... Is this Our house or Yours? etc...

I'd also feel gut punched, and tempted to (discretely) pursue some legal advice so I could at least be protected in the worst case...and to ensure any inheritance is maintained in your name one day (that's default, but you have to take steps to avoid any co-mingling usually to maintain the separation of finances).

 

[dirtbiker]

Hi all --

My husband retired in 2020 at 60, and I've been a stay-at-home mom and housewife for 28 of our 31 year marriage. He's happy as can be about retiring after 35 years of working for the same company.

I worked full-time until we had our first child 28 years ago, and I worked part-time from 2003 to 2013. We have two other children ages 25 and 23, and the youngest is still in college for which we are paying.

Our finances have always been mingled, including the minimal amount of money I earned with my part-time jobs. We have plenty of money for retirement, but we don't share the same ideas about how to invest that money. My husband recently announced that his pension and 401K are now "his" money only, and I get no say in how it's handled. That was a bit of a gut-punch, because it makes me feel like my contributions to running a household and raising our children were worth nothing.

I'm not worried about running out of money as I will inherit half my parent's estate soon and it will be around $3 million, but to be told that suddenly we have "his money" and "my money" is really disconcerting.

I guess I never gave much thought to my own "retirement," since a housewife doesn't really ever get to retire, but suddenly it seems we don't have similar goals. This wasn't what I expected from retirement.

Is there a bigger problem in the marriage that you haven't mentioned to us? This seems like odd timing to suddenly make a major declaration like that.

 

[Vacation4us]

I think you need to have another conversation with DH. Did he say this because of the disagreement you were having over investing? Has anything really changed? I would suggest talking about how he has now made you feel. If necessary you do have the power to put your foot down and make him see reason, assuming a divorce is not his motive.

 

[fancy free]

I’m sorry, OP, that really is a gut punch.

Attempting to be generous/give the benefit of the doubt, perhaps your husband is feeling the loss of his identity as earner/provider and feels he’ll lose even more if you both have an equal share in how you invest your retirement funds. Maybe hanging onto control of “his” money makes him feel like he still is providing/still needed.

Do you have wills? Are you the beneficiary of his accounts? How does the amount you’ll be inheriting compare to the amount of money he’s now claiming sole control of?

Remember that you can take care of yourself if your husband continues down this unpleasant road. You can have half of what the two of you have accrued and your inheritance as a bonus if he wants to be a jackass and play “my money/your money.” Is a little marital counseling possible? I would personally just lay it out for him and let him know he should think hard about adjusting his attitude.

 

[Dtail]

Is there a bigger problem in the marriage that you haven't mentioned to us? This seems like odd timing to suddenly make a major declaration like that.

Same question from me.

 

[Dash man]

Sounds like you two need to talk. Try not to let it blow up into an argument. As others have said, legally it’s 50-50 should the two of you divorce, but don’t bring that up because it will be taken as a threat. Just find out what’s going on with him. It could be something bothering him or one of his dumb buddies told him. Remember that legally you are safe. So if you still love him, treat him as you do even if he sometimes doesn’t reciprocate. It could be temporary.
Do keep your inheritance separate! He cannot touch it!
Best wishes and prayers for you.

 

[jollystomper]

We have plenty of money for retirement, but we don't share the same ideas about how to invest that money. My husband recently announced that his pension and 401K are now "his" money only, and I get no say in how it's handled.

From what the OP wrote (and I realize I am only hearing one side of the story), it seems the root issue is not so much "my money or "your money" but "we don't have the same ideas on how to invest". the"mine vs your money" is more a symptom of that.

If the OP cares to share, how different are the investment ideas? are we talking AA percentage allocation differences or T-Bills vs. Bitcoin differences?

 

[Calico]

Sounds like you two need to talk. Try not to let it blow up into an argument. As others have said, legally it’s 50-50 should the two of you divorce, but don’t bring that up because it will be taken as a threat. Just find out what’s going on with him. It could be something bothering him or one of his dumb buddies told him. Remember that legally you are safe. So if you still love him, treat him as you do even if he sometimes doesn’t reciprocate. It could be temporary.
Do keep your inheritance separate! He cannot touch it!
Best wishes and prayers for you.

I agree with all of the above, especially the bolded parts.

Until you find out what is really behind this (seemingly) new attitude of your husband's, you need to protect your financial future.

 

[pacergal]

wow
OP, I can understand the gut punch feeling you got!
Definitely, more communication is warranted.
Do you have access to the accounts to know exactly what you have? No unusual or unknown spending on DH part?
Have there been other things you've noticed or changes in DH behavior concerning you?
And, as others have mentioned, definitely keep any future inheritance in your name only!

 

[Aerides]

From what the OP wrote (and I realize I am only hearing one side of the story), it seems the root issue is not so much "my money or "your money" but "we don't have the same ideas on how to invest". the"mine vs your money" is more a symptom of that.

If the OP cares to share, how different are the investment ideas? are we talking AA percentage allocation differences or T-Bills vs. Bitcoin differences?

This is a good (if very charitable) viewpoint - we only know what the OP told us. We don't know, for example, if her husband's exclamation was made in exasperation, after the umpteenth time of OP saying "but I think we should invest it all in <insert anyone one thing here>"

Now I doubt that, but that's one way a reasonable response might include an overly concerning push back.

Or if the OP has never shown any interest in the investments before, and now is, she might have prodded an overreaction from, say, an overly protective saver. One who is facing a change in his identity that perhaps he's not ready to grapple with.

Lots of possible dynamics that could mean this is not a red alert. Still, this is one of those "plan for the worst, hope for the best" scenarios imo.

 

[Jerry1]

My husband recently announced that his pension and 401K are now "his" money only, and I get no say in how it's handled.

My guess is that the OP wasn’t handling this money anyway. Given that a 401K is through work, I’m guessing the husband just handled it however he saw fit and didn’t engage DW in the conversation of how that money got invested - just a guess. And, the pension is new so likely neither of them were involved in how that money was handled.

I believe this is primarily brought on by the changes he’s going through due to retiring. As Aerides points out, the OP may want to start doing some research to protect herself from a worse case scenario. However, I think they just need to talk through what their new life is going to look like and try to get on the same page. Kids out of school and leaving the house along with a retirement equals big change. Need to deal with that. The “my money” statement is just a symptom in my opinion.

 

[Golden sunsets]

I agree with what others have said. Also has the investment of the pending 3 million inheritance been discussed? Does he assume you will be in charge of those investments? Is the inheritance greater than, equal to or less than your joint marital assets? There seem to be red flags here, but perhaps there just needs to be a full discussion of future investment roles, that incorporates both points of view.

 

[Housewife51]

Some clarification to my comments above are needed, I see.

First, I want to make it clear that my husband is a good man, and I have no intention of getting a divorce. I'm not going to turn this into a marriage counseling session, but suffice to say that my inheritance will be about half "his" retirement savings. We have a house, two rental duplexes, plus his pension and 401(k) funds.

I had said I intended to use my inheritance to help future grandchildren pay for college and perhaps to finance our travel plans or other non-essential projects, but now my husband seems to want to use what I thought was our joint money to make investments I don't necessarily agree with. I guess I worry too much about blowing everything he's worked for because of a bad investment decision (or two or three).

I have been managing my mother's investments ($3 million in a Schwab investment portfolio and a $2 million house) with the help of financial advisers for nearly three years, and the investments have increased in value substantially during that time. I know enough to know I don't understand the ins and outs of investing well enough to do it on my own, so my advisers have been very helpful.

Where my husband and I differ in terms of investing is that I prefer investing in the stock market while he prefers investing in real estate. That's fine, but I think my problem comes with not really believing he's knowledgeable enough to be doing this on his own. He gets information from dozens and dozens of sources, and he's on one webinar or another about real estate investing almost daily. I get very wary of all these sales types pitching this investment idea or that one, and I'm concerned he's going to get ripped off.

This feeling is not without precedent, as the first rental property we bought 18 years ago was as a result of a real estate investing meeting he attended that turned out to be a pyramid scheme. I had bad feelings about it from the beginning because the promises of high cash flow seemed too good to be true, but I kept my mouth shut. Sure enough, the people behind the scam were caught and sent to prison, but we were among the very few investors who actually did get a property. (Most investors lost tens of thousands of dollars.) Because we didn't officially get ripped off, my husband considers this a no harm/no foul experience. I disagree, since he continues to watch all the webinars with guys who talk like snake oil salesmen, and it makes me very nervous he'll fall for it again.

My main concern, which I may not have really conveyed well in my original post, is that I feel like my role in this marriage has been diminished because I my "job" of raising our kids is done, and he's home all day now after having worked for 35+ years gaining all this knowledge of the business world that I don't have. Because our shared roles of parenting are essentially over, I guess I feel like I'm supposed to just step aside and not be involved in any of the money decisions that require a business-trained mine. I wasn't involved in them before he retired, because it was his 401(k) and his pension, and I couldn't do anything with those accounts even if I wanted to.

Yes, I'm his beneficiary on the accounts, and we have a couple of LLCs that now seem to be so overcomplicated I'm not sure I could ever figure them out if something happened to him. He has no patience with explaining things I don't understand, because he feels threatened if I question a decision or the reasoning behind one. Yes, I suppose some counseling wouldn't be a bad idea, but the chance of getting him to do it is slim.

I'm not looking to dictate how our money will be invested or spent, but I'd sure like to be allowed an opinion or a veto if I don't agree with a particular scheme he has in mind. Everything seems to be very "my way or the highway" right now, and that doesn't feel like a partnership to me.

 

[MrsHaloFIRE]

I would be clear to him that if all of a sudden after a shared workload raising a family that he feels that money is his, he better set aside enough somewhere safe that HE can live off of. He may be viewing your future inheritance as his safety net. And in my world, thats not gonna work. Its either shared or its not.

I call BULLSHIT and I would call it early and often.

Also, I want to ask what industry he worked in because LOTS of jobs held by ltos of smart people dont yield any sort of special financial acumen superior to that of someone willing to take a few moments to think and research, as shown with you successfully working with a financial advisor for the benefit of your mother. I think you are downplaying your own strengths here. It takes some smarts to do what youve done, and you smelled a rat on the ponzi scheme long before business boy did.

 

[RunningBum]

That's rough.

What are you looking for here? By "here", I mean from us at e-r.org, and for you in this situation?

Obviously with the situation as presenting, most if not all of us would agree with you that both should have some say, and that investments in real estate investments like he seems to be headed toward need to be limited.

If he doesn't want to do counseling, there's no sense in any of us pushing it if that's not going to happen.

You don't talk of your overall financial situation. Can the $3M you inherit support the two of you, if properly invested? Even if not, I would say that you should maintain control of that when you inherit, and invest similarly as you did for you mother, only for your needs, not hers.

Not sure what else you are looking for here...

 

[Philliefan33]

Save your inheritance. It sounds like you will need it.

It would be a big red flag to me if my husband was making financial decisions without my buy-in. There may be things that your husband understands better than you, but if he is unable to explain it in such a way to teach you I think that means he doesn’t quite understand it either.

Why is he chasing big returns? Is his pension enough to fund your regular expenses, and he sees the 401K funds as extra play money?

 

[RunningBum]

I would be clear to him that if all of a sudden after a shared workload raising a family that he feels that money is his, he better set aside enough somewhere safe that HE can live off of. He may be viewing your future inheritance as his safety net. And in my world, thats not gonna work. Its either shared or its not.

I call BULLSHIT and I would call it early and often.

Yes, that's certainly another valid route to go. Very valid. That's not a financial issue, that's a marriage issue. How do you feel about standing up to him like this?

Again, I ask, what are you looking for here? Legal advice? Financial advice? Marriage advice?

 

[Ready]

First, I want to make it clear that my husband is a good man, and I have no intention of getting a divorce. I'm not going to turn this into a marriage counseling session, but suffice to say that my inheritance will be about half "his" retirement savings.

Based on what you have told us, I don’t see this as being a financial issue. It’s a marital relationship issue. You said you don’t want to turn this into a marriage counseling session so I’m not sure what else we can tell you. When two people can’t have a discussion and meeting of the minds on how to spend or invest their savings, it’s not about the money. It’s about the relationship. I wish you the best.

 

[Calico]

Save your inheritance. It sounds like you will need it.

It would be a big red flag to me if my husband was making financial decisions without my buy-in. There may be things that your husband understands better than you, but if he is unable to explain it in such a way to teach you I think that means he doesn’t quite understand it either.

Why is he chasing big returns? Is his pension enough to fund your regular expenses, and he sees the 401K funds as extra play money?

+100

 

[Dash man]

Have you guys done any financial planning? Maybe sitting down with an hourly fee-based CFP would be useful and eye opening for both of you. It also brings in a middle person that can shed an objective light on the topic.

 

[Housewife51]

Again, I ask, what are you looking for here? Legal advice? Financial advice? Marriage advice?

My original intent was to ask if others have been in a similar position of being in a marriage partnership where one person worked for a paycheck and the other worked for no pay, then once retirement came around for the salaried spouse, the money was suddenly looked at as belonging only to one person and not as community property. If so, how did anyone handle it?

 

[tmm99]

Please make sure and keep your inheritance separate. With your inheritance, do not buy anything that will be owned by you and your spouse. That will make the purchased item community property and if you ever divorce, your spouse will be entitled to half of it. Do not put any of the money in a joint account either.

You could tell him that you earned every bit of his 401K etc as he, by raising the children and protecting the home front while he was at work, so you're actually entitled to half of those financial assets, whether you received a family inheritance, or not. And you have a say in how you spend the money you've saved together.

If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't want him to make big financial mistakes either. I have a feeling your husband is counting on your inheritance as a backup plan, but he should realize that that's your money. If you divorced him, all he's left with would most likely be half of 401K and pension, home, rentals, etc.

I see this as a power struggle of some sort in your relationship.

I don't know what I would do if DH wanted to make foolish decisions, chasing after some scam/pyramid-type scheme to make big money fast (especially with "our" money). I would try to make him understand how dangerous those things are and try to wake him up, but if that didn't work, and if he wasn't willing to listen to me, I would seriously consider divorcing him because I can't be with someone who has a totally different financial outlook/ideas with our money. I also couldn't tolerate my spouse getting irritated and not explaining something very important to me. I expect my spouse to show more respect than that.

I know you came here to see if anybody's been in a similar situation and what they have done. I've never been in your situation. I'm just stating what I would most likely do in your situation.

Good luck to you.