Need advice for son re: air force

[mattbaxx]

My son is thinking about joining the air force and as we are not a military family I need some advice from those who know more than me. First off, I am totally supportive of the idea... I just want to be able to help him if I can.

He is 27, with a little bit of college (<2 years), and currently working in the garage door trade. He seems to be serious about the plan and I think would benefit from some advice. He is generally fit and strong but he talks about wanting to get in a little better shape before he talks to a recruiter. Is that necessary? What are good questions to ask a recruiter? What kinds of questions will the recruiter ask? What are the next steps?

And of course, what am I missing?

Thanks in advance!

 

[JDARNELL]

Well he can begin to run, push-ups, and sit ups. Get an ASVAB study app and get the highest score he can. Check out the faq pages on the Air Force website. Ask about what rank he would go in with some college. Might be a little bump. Talk to as many AF veterans as he can. Go for the job he really wants even if he has to wait for a ship date.

 

[Gumby]

What is his goal in joining the Air Force? Does he think that he would enjoy that as a career, or is he looking to get trained in a new and more lucrative trade, and then return to the civilian world? That could make a big difference in how he goes about the process.

 

[mattbaxx]

Thanks, JD, good points.

Gumby, I'd say at this point it is more the experience and training, but could become a career. Does that affect what he might say to a recruiter?

 

[Gumby]

Thanks, JD, good points.

Gumby, I'd say at this point it is more the experience and training, but could become a career. Does that affect what he might say to a recruiter?

I am hopeful that an Air Force vet will step in, as I am a just a former Navy submariner. I will give you my perspective on the Navy side, but you should approach it with caution.

So, if I were joining the Navy and wanted to get trained in a new field and return to civilian life when my hitch was up, I would not sign up to be a Signalman, Boatswain's Mate, Quartermaster, Gunner's Mate or Torpedoman. They are all important jobs, with dedicated and capable sailors who do them, but they are jobs done only in the Navy and have no equivalent in the civilian world. So if you wanted to do that, you would be looking at a 20 year career. On the other hand, when I was a lieutenant on the submarine, I led a division full of Machinist's Mates. They maintained, repaired and operated the diesel engine, all the plumbing, and the HVAC system in the submarine (among many other things). Many of them left the Navy and subsequently made their career in those fields. Electrician's Mates and Electronic Technicians are similarly able to use their skills in civilian life. You can, of course, have a 20 year career in the Navy doing those things, but it is nice to have an option if the Navy life does not suit you.

I imagine there are similar issues in the Air Force. For example, I would think that a jet engine mechanic could find employment in the civilian world, while someone whose expertise is preparing, arming and loading the air-to-air missiles may not.

Again, I hope that someone with Air Force experience will comment, but I think you probably get my general drift.

 

[Sunset]

I wanted to join to be a fighter pilot because it's sexy and I was stupid.
I was refused as I wore glasses... Lucky for me as there are no civilian jobs as a fighter pilot.

 

[brett]

I would think that it might depend on what the USAF recruitment picture looks like.

Their recruitment standards/bars may vary by how many candidates are in the funnel and what roles and skills they anticipate requiring over the next few years.

No doubt they have a good bead on who makes the best hires so to speak....right down to shoe size!

Why not go to an office and have an informal discussion with a recruiter? I would imagine he or she would be amenable to that type of a conversation.

 

[Bamaman]

There was a long article online yesterday about Navy recruiters. They're given large quotas to fill monthly, and they'll lie to any recruits to get them to fill the jobs needed. And once you're working in any specialty, sailors just about never get transferred into other jobs. Once you're a paint chipper, you're on the paint squad forever.

Our ex-son in law was on an aircraft carrier, and he found making rank extremely difficult. It's said that Sailors belong on ships, and ships belong at sea. Our daughter found that a Navy wife has a difficult life.

I don't know how the Air Force correlates. But I've heard of long absences from the families. But no matter what, flying sure beats being an IED target on the ground. And there are many specialties in the Air Force that might provide a good life in the private world--like advanced avionics and A&P mechanics.

 

[kwright396]

I was in the Air Force for 4 years back in the day (1973 - 1977). It was a great learning experience. Bootcamp for the Air Force is not hard physically and only 8 weeks long. It's more mental as you learn the military way. Take what the recruiter says with a large grain of salt. Highly recommend joining for 4 year enlistment versus 6 years. Pay not great but experience gained is. Suggest avionics (what I did) or other job which is more easily transferable to civilian life. Get a guaranteed job versus letting the Air Force pick for you. Your son will take job aptitude tests prior to joining so he'll know what he's qualified for. Most people don't reenlist so I'd look at it as an adventure while serving your country. It'll definitely change his life. JMHO

 

[braumeister]

I retired from the USAF a very long time ago so I can’t provide any current info. But I truly loved my 21 years with them. Fantastic community to join.

As to advice, I would just say talk to a recruiter, maybe two of them if possible, listen to what they say, and then think about it. The recruiter should also be able to provide some printed information to back up what they say.

Bottom line, I would never discourage a young person from joining.

 

[Sniggle]

From what I understand the AF is the pickiest of the services, when it comes to recruiting. If your son is not overweight, then he should be able to get in the door (being more physically fit is always better, but being overweight is a killer because it then becomes the RS responsibility to get the recruit to weight standard before shipping).

They will administer a practice ASVAB pretty quickly, and if the score is not in the 'acceptable' range he may not find the recruiter helpful. He can prepare for the ASVAB before testing the waters at the recruiter, which is advisable.

 

[Trailwalker]

My best friend was a weapons loader and had a long career in the active Air Force, finishing as a master sergeant. He then put in enough years in the Air Guard to qualify for a nice second pension. After leaving the civilian job, he went to art school and now specializes in large public sculptures. He often complains about his time in the Air Force, and my friend doesn't have a very high opinion about the credibility of recruiters. But it's also clear that the Air Force was a rich experience for him in travel, adventure, and relationships.

My cousin flunked out of his first semester of college and then joined the Air Force. He wanted a job that would translate to civilian life, and made that an emphasis with the recruiter. He ended up in a weather-related job that did not translate to civilian life. He left the Air Force when it became clear that re-enlisting would mean significant time away from his wife. They loved being together in Germany, but the idea of going alone to Turkey was not appealing. He went back to school and became a social worker, later a long haul truck driver (better money and benefits), and now owns a very profitable public storage business.

In the end, life is what we make of it. Best of luck to your son.

 

[Errollyn]

Air Force vet here. My primary advice is similar to what Gumby said...have your son review the available career fields and pick a few that look interesting, but also that easily translate to the civilian world. Skills like air traffic control, computer programming, etc. are relatively easy to convert into well-paying jobs when he gets out of the Air Force. Once he's got some fields narrowed down, he needs to make sure he's going in with a guaranteed career field of his choice--don't let the recruiter talk him into going in "open general" and hoping he doesn't end up slinging eggs at the chow hall.

Make sure he's going into it knowing it's an investment in his future, and that it might suck for stretches. If he keeps his head down, learns a lot about his trade, and works hard, it'll turn into a better life for him over the long run.

Speaking of investments, tell him to dump as much money possible into the TSP, which is the government's equivalent to a 401(k). I did 14 years in the AF, before TSP was offered to military members--as a result I didn't really get any retirement benefits for my years. At that time, it was either do 20 years or get nothing for retirement. The TSP is a HUGE improvement over that, and it's just about the best retirement plan out there--but he's got to take advantage of it.

 

[mattbaxx]

Fantastic thoughts. Thanks, all.

 

[Speculator]

While I think military service can be a fine career choice, it is not for everyone. I know this after having "won" the draft lottery back in 1971. Unlike any other job, you cannot give two weeks notice and leave. You are stuck there for the duration of your contract with fairly severe penalties for breaching your contract. And if you do not get an honorable discharge, you may have difficulty getting hired for other jobs for the rest of your life. As such, the decision to join the military should not be taken lightly. I wish your son only the best in his choice.

 

[Souschef]

I started the ASVAB sample test, and will weed out people pretty quickly. I have a Master's degree in Engineering and 50 years experience.
It really made me think, especially the spatial visualization tasks.

 

[Dash man]

I flew in the Air Force, and the aircraft mechanics, avionics specialists and those involved in logistics could get good paying jobs on the outside. Security Police often took law enforcement positions when they left. Air Traffic Controllers can transition fairly easily.
The most important thing is to take advantage of the educational opportunities while in the service. Taking a specialty where he’s not deployed all the time allows him to take courses.

 

[Brat]

I differ with Dash Man: Aircraft mechanics in the private sector do not earn much. Don't choose that career path.

 

[Buckeye]

Well he can begin to run, push-ups, and sit ups. Get an ASVAB study app and get the highest score he can. Check out the faq pages on the Air Force website. Ask about what rank he would go in with some college. Might be a little bump. Talk to as many AF veterans as he can. Go for the job he really wants even if he has to wait for a ship date.

I went into the Air Force after college because I had no idea what I wanted to do. Thoroughly enjoyed my 10 years and I got a good job when I came out although I had earned my MBA at night which definitely helped. I know things have changed since I took the oath 40 years ago, but I would recommend it to anyone. I advise him to get all the education he can get, on the job or at night, so he will always be prepared for whatever comes. Education gave me choices.

I would also advise him to work towards his degree while he is in so he can be accepted to Officer Candidate School to become an officer. Definitely better pay and better preparation for civilian employment IMO.

 

[Buckeye]

I flew in the Air Force, and the aircraft mechanics, avionics specialists and those involved in logistics could get good paying jobs on the outside. Security Police often took law enforcement positions when they left. Air Traffic Controllers can transition fairly easily.
The most important thing is to take advantage of the educational opportunities while in the service. Taking a specialty where he’s not deployed all the time allows him to take courses.

I'm guessing online courses give folks more options today, even while being deployed. It was not an option back in the olden days when I was in.

 

[Buckeye]

Air Force vet here. My primary advice is similar to what Gumby said...have your son review the available career fields and pick a few that look interesting, but also that easily translate to the civilian world. Skills like air traffic control, computer programming, etc. are relatively easy to convert into well-paying jobs when he gets out of the Air Force. Once he's got some fields narrowed down, he needs to make sure he's going in with a guaranteed career field of his choice--don't let the recruiter talk him into going in "open general" and hoping he doesn't end up slinging eggs at the chow hall.

Make sure he's going into it knowing it's an investment in his future, and that it might suck for stretches. If he keeps his head down, learns a lot about his trade, and works hard, it'll turn into a better life for him over the long run.

Speaking of investments, tell him to dump as much money possible into the TSP, which is the government's equivalent to a 401(k). I did 14 years in the AF, before TSP was offered to military members--as a result I didn't really get any retirement benefits for my years. At that time, it was either do 20 years or get nothing for retirement. The TSP is a HUGE improvement over that, and it's just about the best retirement plan out there--but he's got to take advantage of it.

I was also in before the TSP for 10 years. So many more options to save today. The VA home loan program has been a great benefit as has availability of medical care at the VA. I have been retired for 10 years and VA medical care was an important factor in being able to retire so early and save me an enormous amount of money in healthcare premiums.

I spent several years in classified programs and it was a blast. Make sure he remembers ALL his jobs and addresses if he is going to be getting a security clearance.

My last bit of advice is to avoid working for defense contractors when he gets out. There is so much more fun stuff out there!

 

[schenbew]

Old, Retired Guy Thoughts on a USAF Career

mattbaxx,


I think your son will find lots of options in the USAF. As a retired 30yr USAF vet, glad to see younger people considering joining and upholding the USAF traditions. Here are some of my initial thoughts for your son to consider:

1. Study up and prepare for the ASVAB in advance. The higher your son's score, the greater the choice of job assignments he can select. Think linguists, Combat Control, enlisted aircrew (flight engineers, loadmasters, radio operators,etc.), paralegals, etc. It's a 300K+ person organization, and you'd be surprised at the huge number of difference career fields available. I am not up to speed to current USAF career field manpower shortages, but recruiters get "paid" to fill quotas...the higher your son's ASVAB score, the more desirable a candidate he will be.

2. The preponderance of enlisted positions are aircraft maintenance and security forces, the folks who guard the bases and aircraft. The USAF also has a large Civil Engineer (CE) career field as well...these are the HVAC techs, carpenters, masons, etc. who deploy to garden spots to build/repair infrastructure needed to conduct the USAF mission. If he enjoys his current work, he can probably get into CE, but doesn't need to.

3. Joining and successfully serving (i.e., an honorable discharge) at least his initial enlistment will entitle him to the New GI Bill , offered through the VA. This will give him 4 yrs of in-state tuition, book $, and a monthly living stipend equal to what an E5 with dependents would receive living in the college's zip code. Can also be used for certain technical training courses as well. This is an incredible benefit....please look into this further if it resonates with your son.

4. If he likes the USAF and decides to make it a career, the opportunities to complete a college degree on the USAF's dime are common. Requires discipline to do your day job and study at night, but there is a culture of promoting higher education in the USAF ranks.

5. Post military, depending on how he makes out during his military service (again, he needs an honorable discharge...), the opportunity for VA healthcare is there. You needn't be completely disabled to receive VA medical care, but you do need to be a veteran. Too complicated to go into now, but it is an option.

6. Veteran's hiring preferences. So long as your son successfully serves (once again, receiving an honorable discharge) he will be given preference in hiring for federal civil service jobs, as well as many state and local jobs as well. I did not choose this path (wasn't entitled to it due to my active duty rank), so cant speak to the details, but you can easily search the internet for details. Many private companies also have robust veteran hiring programs, which your son may be able to take advantage of.

7. Physical fitness. After a certain amount of due diligence on your son and the recruiter's part, I believe your son will do an initial weigh in, 1.5 mile run, sit ups and pushups. If your son doesn't perform well, there is time to remedy the deficiencies, but again, if your son comes in off the street able to pass the PT test right away, his desirability, and choice of career fields, will increase. The recruiter can tell you how they will handle this and what the standards are.


8. Depending on the number of college credits your son has completed, after basic training he can enter as an E2 or E3, which is a nice little monthly pay bump from everyone starting at Airman Basic, or E1. The recruiter can detail how this works to you guys.


Good luck with the process, and very interested in an update on how your son makes out.


Best,


schenbew

 

[check6]

mattbaxx,
3. Joining and successfully serving (i.e., an honorable discharge) at least his initial enlistment will entitle him to the New GI Bill , offered through the VA. This will give him 4 yrs of in-state tuition, book $, and a monthly living stipend equal to what an E5 with dependents would receive living in the college's zip code. Can also be used for certain technical training courses as well. This is an incredible benefit....please look into this further if it resonates with your son.

This!! I used every cent of the GI Bill for a Master's Degree, ATP (Airline Transport Pilot rating) and FE (Flight Engineer rating). All which led to a long airline career.

 

[SnowballCamper]

He is 27, with a little bit of college (<2 years), and currently working in the garage door trade. He seems to be serious about the plan and I think would benefit from some advice. He is generally fit and strong but he talks about wanting to get in a little better shape before he talks to a recruiter. Is that necessary? What are good questions to ask a recruiter? What kinds of questions will the recruiter ask? What are the next steps?

And of course, what am I missing?

For fitness, the events are the 1.5 mile run, push-ups and sit-ups, a bit of googling will get you the minimum requirements, that aren't required until the end of basic training, at least in the Army.

As an Army retiree, I'd say to go for the job that sounds cool. There are a lot of neat things you can do in the military, that you don't get to do anywhere else...or are very rarely done (explosive demolition, jumping out of airplanes and/or helicopters, armament technician, etc.). With successful completion of the initial service (which nearly everyone accomplishes) he'll get the GI Bill, which generously funds training at civilian institutions for the job afterwards.

The recruiter just wants to make sure he'll pass a security screening, physical, and does well enough on the asvab. Drug use or unpaid bills can be a problem...but don't lie to your recruiter!!!! or on the forms s/he has you fill out.

I would ask the recruiter, "What's the coolest job you can get me?" I'd also ask what is the best location you can get me assigned to, and why is it the best?

 

[World Traveler]

AF Ret here.
Getting in better shape will make it easier in boot camp but not a prerequisite to talk to a recruiter.

Ask the recruiter about the different career fields. Are any guaranteed? Also have him talk to a guard and reserve unit recruiter they might be able to get him a specific job(they are at the bases and not at mall recruiting stations). How long is the commitment? Longer tech schools require longer time.
Guard and Reserve your active duty for training then you go part time but get to live where you want to live and apply your new skills in the civilian world.

Ask about advance placement since he has two years of college E-2 or E-3.

Ask about Officer programs if interested.

Next steps talk to the recruiter,ASVB, decide on job, physical then Boot.

Do not let the recruiter bully or talk him into something he doesn’t want to do! At 27 this should not be a factor and it is the AF so the recruiter probably has his quota.

Also consider the new Space Command.

I was enlisted in the Navy and for most part enjoyed it but by far the AF was a better way of life.