More 15% ethanol gasoline on the way

Chuckanut said:
I've been told by people who live in an area where they can get 100% petroleum gasoline that they get better mileage with it. Whether the mileage is good enough to offset the increased price is another question.
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I filled up with E85 by accident on a cross country trip. The reduction in price was a near exact match to the reduction in fuel economy. That was awhile ago in a flexfuel vehicle but newer cars might possibly work better if they can detect the octane level of the fuel.
 
Maybe they could add bourbon to the gasoline to make it more clean and teastful.
 
Chuckanut said:
I've been told by people who live in an area where they can get 100% petroleum gasoline that they get better mileage with it. Whether the mileage is good enough to offset the increased price is another question.
Click to expand...

First part is true - the energy density of gasoline is much higher than ethanol (google tells me 1/3 higher). Gasoline is a very efficient liquid fuel.

I also read that E15 is only approved (by EPA) for heavy duty vehicles, boats, off-road, power equipment, and specific flex-fuel cars. Not for most automobiles. I won't be buying E15.

I don't know about any price difference, I might have seen E15 for sale once in my life. Or maybe that was E85 which is a whole different animal (or vegetable?).
 
Stormy Kromer said:
Disclaimer here. I live on a farm and own farmland which raises corn. I am probably the only person on this forum who walked on a cornfield today. We'll be planting in a week or so.

That said, I don't support increasing ethanol production. Many of my neighbors wouldn't like to hear that.

Corn is already $7 a bushel, record territory. The ag economy is on the verge of overheating like it has done many times over history. Input costs are being driven up by competition as well as fertilizer expenses. With corn at $7 the demand for fertilizer is extremely high. The large farmers will expand and squeeze out smaller producers. Demand for farmland is insane, these high prices are intoxicating for both farmers and land owners.

Crop insurance makes in nearly impossible to have a financial loss since you can lock in yield and price guarantees. I'm not against ethanol but this is probably the craziest time I can think of for increasing its use. Current corn prices are very profitable for farmers right now.

If corn isn't used for ethanol it is used to feed livestock such as beef, pork and poultry. Like it should be. Have you priced meat in the stores lately ? A lot has to do with the price of feed, along with increased transportation and processing costs.

This is a personal opinion, I'd rather see our country use fossil fuels in an efficient manner for power, and our crops as a food source. Focus on domestic fuel production to ease our dependence on foreign oil instead of taking a food source.

And I own a corn farm...
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Come on Stormy don't confuse us with the facts,.this pr stunt has nothing to do with farming. I walked on a corn field today, no way we will be planting in a week
 
Stormy Kromer said:
Disclaimer here. I live on a farm and own farmland which raises corn. I am probably the only person on this forum who walked on a cornfield today. We'll be planting in a week or so.

That said, I don't support increasing ethanol production. Many of my neighbors wouldn't like to hear that.

Corn is already $7 a bushel, record territory. The ag economy is on the verge of overheating like it has done many times over history. Input costs are being driven up by competition as well as fertilizer expenses. With corn at $7 the demand for fertilizer is extremely high. The large farmers will expand and squeeze out smaller producers. Demand for farmland is insane, these high prices are intoxicating for both farmers and land owners.

Crop insurance makes in nearly impossible to have a financial loss since you can lock in yield and price guarantees. I'm not against ethanol but this is probably the craziest time I can think of for increasing its use. Current corn prices are very profitable for farmers right now.

If corn isn't used for ethanol it is used to feed livestock such as beef, pork and poultry. Like it should be. Have you priced meat in the stores lately ? A lot has to do with the price of feed, along with increased transportation and processing costs.

This is a personal opinion, I'd rather see our country use fossil fuels in an efficient manner for power, and our crops as a food source. Focus on domestic fuel production to ease our dependence on foreign oil instead of taking a food source.

And I own a corn farm...
Click to expand...

I’ve been thinking a lot about this for the past month. We keep hearing that wheat production is going to be way off in Ukraine and probably less will be exported from Russia too. But we don’t seem to be taking any action. We should suspend any regulations at state or federal levels requiring methanol in the gas. Everything should be going to food at this point. Instead we’ll wait until the harvest and show horrible pictures of starving people on the evening news.

Can the corn farmers switch easily to wheat or soy beans? Of course we still need some corn production too but crops f directly as food are going to be needed.
 
Popeye the answer to your question is no. We payed in full for all our inputs between last October and Jan 1..it's planting season
 
I don't know if the US bought any wheat from Ukraine.

The main destination of Wheat exports from Ukraine are: Egypt ($685M), Indonesia ($603M), Philippines ($242M), Turkey ($207M), and Tunisia ($196M)...
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In terms of total exports, the country that buys the most from Ukraine is China (12%), then Poland (7.6%), then Turkey (6.1%), etc... The US buys only 2.4% of Ukraine's exports.
 
ivinsfan said:
Popeye the answer to your question is no. We payed in full for all our inputs between last October and Jan 1..it's planting season
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Is it just the financial side? I mean if the govt made you whole for those expenses and asked for wheat instead, could you do it? I’m sure there are quite a few resources required for a switch like that. How far out is the decision made on a crop usually? How late can you change your mind?

The $1500 per ton ammonia price blows my mind. At Megacorp we sold to the ammonia producers and had lots of key equipment in plants all over the Midwest. IIRC they spent like drunken sailors at around $800 per ton. But I guess the higher cost of natural gas is working against them now.
 
Popeye said:
Is it just the financial side? I mean if the govt made you whole for those expenses and asked for wheat instead, could you do it? I’m sure there are quite a few resources required for a switch like that. How far out is the decision made on a crop usually? How late can you change your mind?

The $1500 per ton ammonia price blows my mind. At Megacorp we sold to the ammonia producers and had lots of key equipment in plants all over the Midwest. IIRC they spent like drunken sailors at around $800 per ton. But I guess the higher cost of natural gas is working against them now.
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No it's a supply chain issue. I could write you a book about it. Seed has been spoken for and distributed, you just don't run to the feed store and buy wheat seed. You'd also need to figure out what to do with the seed corn you already bought not like you can run it back to Walmart. You have to have the equipment to seed and combine wheat, a different header for your combine and on and on.



If you wanted to grow wheat your are SOL until next Spring...that's for regular wheat not winter wheat.
 
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ivinsfan said:
Come on Stormy don't confuse us with the facts,.this pr stunt has nothing to do with farming. I walked on a corn field today, no way we will be planting in a week
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I agree, the politicians don't cater to farmers. Farmers are only about 1% of the voting population and politicians don't care. Archer Daniels Midland and Cargill get their attention. That said, politicians are kind to us farmers with MPCI ad subsidies. Farmers where I live don't retire anymore, they keep farming into their 70's and 80's because it's not hard work and a lot of money to be made.

As for farming, unless you are involved I can't explain it to you. There is adequate moisture and a few warm days we'll be planting. We will this week with just two days of sunshine. Fertilizer (manure) is in place and we have hopes to beat the best crop we ever had (2021) this year.

Ethanol is a publicity stint for politicians and the green force. Farmer owned co-ops own a lot of them. Many have tanked over the years and were bought out by Archer Daniels Midland for cents on the dollar. I owned shares in one of them..lost a pile. it used to be known as MCPA in Marshall, MN. A farmer owned cooperative. ADM kicked us to the curb when they bought us out.

Back to the OP's question. I don't think ethanol is the answer to our fuel needs. I want to raise corn to feed people. Let the oil people fill out fuel needs.
 
Q: Why was the farmer buried in a shallow grave?
A: So he could still get a handout.
 
ivinsfan said:
How about the health care industrial complex


The finance industrial complex

The government industrial complex

Should I continue ��
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I get it, agriculture isn't the only 'complex' :)
 
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If I remember correctly, in order to produce X amount of ethanol energy, it requires 2/3 *X energy to produce it. That and it's not a good idea to burn up the food supply.
 
Chuckanut said:
I've been told by people who live in an area where they can get 100% petroleum gasoline that they get better mileage with it. Whether the mileage is good enough to offset the increased price is another question.
Click to expand...

It would depend on the price difference. In my area, real gas (no ethanol) is very expensive and a little difficult to get. I use it for my lawn tractor and yard equipment. For as little as I use, it’s worth the extra cost. No carburetor problems. And, yes, I do get more mows out of each tank of gas. I didn’t measure it, but roughly I get two mows (one acre) out of a tank of gas with ethanol versus three with the real gas.

Now where my dad lives, in Missouri, there’s a station where people the premium fuel is non ethanol. So, the premium is not as high. I bet it would be close to break even using that gas at that price differential, but that’s just a guess.
 
Ethanol is destructive to small gas engines. I always use Marine Stabil (the blue green not the pink) in the gas for them and drain the tank and run them dry when done using them for the season.

Would adding Marine Stabil to 15% ethanol 87 octane (regular) gas protect a gas engine in a car or truck. Does the year of manufacture matter? I have a 2005 AWD Honda CRV 4 cylinder that runs on 87 octane.
 
Beststash said:
Q: Why was the farmer buried in a shallow grave?
A: So he could still get a handout.
Click to expand...




That's a really old joke you are going to have to do better then that..:angel:
 
John Deere made a new model tractor, it comes standard with no seat and no steering wheel.
It's for the farmer who lost his arse and has nowhere to turn.
 
I watched the Clarkson's Farm on Amazon. Had a few laughs, a few sobering moments and learned that farming ranks right up there with gold mining for a good way to work really hard at going broke.

The sheep thing was the real kick in the nuts....it was like $4 per sheep or something to shear them and the wool you got sold for $0.40
 
A local news show was asking a petroleum industry analyst about the 15% ethanol rule change. His comment was that less than 20% of the stations in the USA sold the stuff. IOW, it won't make much difference.
 
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