Sand Batteries

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From the BBC: Sand battery could solve green energy's big problem

While you won't be able to put one in your Tesla, it does sound interesting as a cheap way to store a source of heat.

Finnish researchers have installed the world's first fully working "sand battery" which can store green power for months at a time.

The developers say this could solve the problem of year-round supply, a major issue for green energy.

Using low-grade sand, the device is charged up with heat made from cheap electricity from solar or wind.

The sand stores the heat at around 500C, which can then warm homes in winter when energy is more expensive.
 
Heat makes molecules of all substances vibrate or jiggle. It causes them to expand and increase pressure if contained in a fixed volume. When the molecules are absolutely still, we have 0 deg Kelvin.

The sand heat storage is said to be turned on only when they have a surplus of renewable energy. The silo contains 100 tons of sand. It does not seem that much. The advantage of using sand is that it is cheap, and can be heated to a much higher temperature in a simple container than, say, water.

The article does not say how many BTUs that hold. I will try to find out.
 
OK, here we go.

Specific heat of sand: 830 J/kg.K

Specific heat of water: 4200 J/kg.K

The higher the specific heat of a substance, the more energy it takes to heat it, which means the higher thermal storage capacity of the substance.

So, sand has only 20% the thermal capacity of water. However, they are going to heat that 100 tons of sand to 500C. If we count from 25C, then the temperature swing is 475C, compared to heating water only 75C (25C to 100C) to the boiling point without using a pressurized container.

20% the thermal capacity, but with about 6x the temperature change. It's roughly about even, I will say.

So, it's about the same as heating 100 tons of water to boiling temperature.


Now, how much energy storage is that?

830 J/kg.K x 100,000 kg x 475 K = 39.4 billion Joules = 11,000 kWh.

It's the same as 110 to 180 EV batteries (60-100 kWh each).
 
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Sand is 1.5 to 2x denser than water, so a bit more bang for the buck volumetrically.


On the other hand, the higher temperature requires 6x more insulation to have the same heat loss.
 
I'm contemplating using insulation on our geothermal system, along those lines. Typical depth is 6' in our latitude and climate zone. I can get surplus insulation panels for free, and am thinking about insulating the edge of the storage mass, and quite possibly the top too. Energy that I pump in during the cooling season would be better retained for the heating season.
Once I used that up, the heat from below would rise up to the coils during the winter heating season.
What my brother sees in the colder central Washington season is heat mass temperatures getting down near freezing as he heats. It is still far better than the ambient air.
 
I guess if you are skeptical, you could tell them to go pound sand.
 
I'm contemplating using insulation on our geothermal system, along those lines. Typical depth is 6' in our latitude and climate zone. I can get surplus insulation panels for free, and am thinking about insulating the edge of the storage mass, and quite possibly the top too. Energy that I pump in during the cooling season would be better retained for the heating season.
Once I used that up, the heat from below would rise up to the coils during the winter heating season.
What my brother sees in the colder central Washington season is heat mass temperatures getting down near freezing as he heats. It is still far better than the ambient air.

This doesn't sound like a promising idea to me. Essentially, you are trying to create a smaller reservoir. If you succeed, then during cooling season you will heat up your reservoir, making it harder and harder to dump more heat in. During heating season, you will extract heat from a smaller mass, bringing it down to near-freezing temps more quickly.

Yes, it could be useful during the transition periods, but deleterious after that.
 
The idea of storing energy thermally isn't new. I have a cast iron steak weight that I heat up, then put it on the top of a steak in a hot frying pan, thus searing both the top and the bottom of the steak.

IIRC there was a solar heat storage scheme using melted NaCl salt. I think the sun melted the salt directly, thus skipping inefficient conversion of the energy to electricity and back.
 
The idea of storing energy thermally isn't new. I have a cast iron steak weight that I heat up, then put it on the top of a steak in a hot frying pan, thus searing both the top and the bottom of the steak.

IIRC there was a solar heat storage scheme using melted NaCl salt. I think the sun melted the salt directly, thus skipping inefficient conversion of the energy to electricity and back.

I don't ever recall the term battery (which is in quotation marks in the article) ever being used for thermal energy storage. I can only think of electrochemical applications. This is a bit of marketing.
 
IIRC there was a solar heat storage scheme using melted NaCl salt. I think the sun melted the salt directly, thus skipping inefficient conversion of the energy to electricity and back.

Various folks are looking into thermal energy storage (TES) for nuclear too. This allows a plant that normally runs at a constant (basically full) power, can use the TES to store surplus energy when demand is low and use it when demand is high.

For example: Thermal Energy Storage and Nuclear Power

The TES integration concept mentioned above addresses several of the issues inherent to nuclear power. To start, TES allows the nuclear reactors to operate at full power around the clock. This is because, with TES integration, the heat from the reactor is decoupled from the power output of the steam power plant. Instead, the full-power operating reactor consistently supplies large amounts of heat energy to be stored in the intermediate TES tanks. [4,5] To help quantify this, a study published in the Energy Policy Journal stated that the optimal TES addition alone can store 8-12 hours of thermal energy required for 150% reactor-rated power output. Furthermore, when supplemented by the constant reactor operations, this 150% ramped power output can be extended. This study suggests that a 100 MWe rated reactor, when coupled with a fully charged TES tank and a 150 MWe rated power plant, could produce maximum output for 16 hours without ever once changing the thermal output of the reactor. [5] Conversely, when electrical demand is low, larger amounts of the reactor's thermal energy can be stored in the TES system to use at a later time when electrical energy demand and profits are higher. These are the extremes, but the thermal energy stored in a TES-nuclear combined cycle can also be intermittently tapped to produce steam and electricity at varying outputs as the demand requires. This means that combining TES with nuclear power also enables the nuclear plant to load-follow without straining the reactor and avoiding the safety concerns associated with changing the reactor's output. A major drawback to current PWR nuclear power plant applications.
 
This doesn't sound like a promising idea to me. Essentially, you are trying to create a smaller reservoir. If you succeed, then during cooling season you will heat up your reservoir, making it harder and harder to dump more heat in. During heating season, you will extract heat from a smaller mass, bringing it down to near-freezing temps more quickly.

Yes, it could be useful during the transition periods, but deleterious after that.

It will definitely take some research. I'd keep the bottom open, which is where the temperatures are most stable. The ground cools all winter top-down, as well as from the coils pulling out heat. In the summer it's the same deal.
I do plan on having a larger field with an extra coil or two in it in reserve.
My brother's system was heat fused in the ground, (3) 600' long loops fused at the 6' level to a 1.25" header pipe that comes up into the house.
A problem with any loop is a problem with all.
The outfit I am looking at places a manifold in the crawlspace and each loop is charged up and purged with air individually, then connected to the manifold. You can isolate a leaking loop with that method, and I can have an extra loop for those kinds of problems.

His soil was problematic. I got into caliche at about 5' in one end and it was a tough go. Mine are gravelly sandy, diggable as far as I can see on any nearby soil logs from geology reports. A bigger field is going to be easy and we have enough property for it.
His system was 30'x60' x 6' deep. I'll spread out a bit.
 
I watched an interview with the CEO and his staff. The application idea is district heating - lots of cities in Europe and some in the US have a centralized building heating system that distributes low pressure steam or hot water around the business district or even further.

Their system consists of a big sand pit (they said 40m diameter x 25 m tall would store energy for a town of 35,000 for the winter). They blow air across resistive heaters driven by excess renewable power (think heating coils like in your toaster, but way bigger). Then the hot air is routed through pipes that go back and forth through the sand pit. After going through the sand, the air provides heat to the district heating system and then the air is cool enough for a blower to push it around the circle again. That's it!

I wouldn’t try to operate at the extreme temperatures quoted of 1000 F+, that ruins piping and equipment. Imagine trying to dig out a 1000 F sand pit to make a repair when the pit is designed to stay hot for months (plus you lose all the heat and the town freezes). For the limited application of district heating, I think this system could be feasible by limiting it to somewhat lower temperatures where materials problems are more manageable and using several smaller pits so failure of one wasn't catastrophic for the user.

The talk about heat storage for power generation requires super high temperatures but I don’t believe there are materials that can do that affordably and last for many years while buried in a sand pit. The desirability of long lasting high temperature materials has been around a long, long time, it's just not an easy problem.
 
The idea of storing energy thermally isn't new. I have a cast iron steak weight that I heat up, then put it on the top of a steak in a hot frying pan, thus searing both the top and the bottom of the steak.

IIRC there was a solar heat storage scheme using melted NaCl salt. I think the sun melted the salt directly, thus skipping inefficient conversion of the energy to electricity and back.


I am not aware of any plant using molten NaCl, practically table salt. The melting point of common salt is rather high at 1474F (801C).

The Solana plant in Gila Bend (south of Phoenix, AZ) uses a eutectic mixture of salts such as sodium nitrate, potassium nitrate, and calcium nitrate. The eutectic melting point can be as low as 268F (131C).

The Solana plant tries to keep the salt above 531F (277C). The total amount of salt is 125,000 tons. The heat storage capacity is 1,500 MWh. It's good for 6 hours after sundown.

The molten salt is used to heat water into steam to run turbines to generate electricity. It is not used to heat dwellings (we have too much heat already in Arizona).

I wonder how they melted that salt in the first place. When it is melted, you can pump it as a liquid, but in solid form what can you do with it to move it through all the piping? Conversely, if you allow the salt to cool and solidify in your complex pipe network through all the solar collectors, you are in big trouble.

For more, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solana_Generating_Station.


img_4919.jpg


Solana-Solar-power-plant-produces-energy-at-night-2.jpg


2-image-22.jpg
 
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I'd keep the bottom open, which is where the temperatures are most stable.

So, are you trying to isolate from the earth, or are you trying to tie into the earth? Do you want a big reservoir, or a small reservoir?
 
^^^

I think skyking1 is talking about isolating from the air, while tying to the earth.
 
I worked with a guy in the UK who claimed his house was about 300 years old. The stone walls were four feet thick. He said that just as the house was starting to get warm inside it would be the end of summer and the house stayed warm all winter. Same in reverse for summer. Natural thermal storage. Said he barely needed to provide supplemental heat.
 
I think skyking1 is talking about isolating from the air, while tying to the earth.

I don't think so:

I'm contemplating using insulation on our geothermal system, along those lines. Typical depth is 6' in our latitude and climate zone. I can get surplus insulation panels for free, and am thinking about insulating the edge of the storage mass, and quite possibly the top too. Energy that I pump in during the cooling season would be better retained for the heating season.
Once I used that up, the heat from below would rise up to the coils during the winter heating season.
What my brother sees in the colder central Washington season is heat mass temperatures getting down near freezing as he heats. It is still far better than the ambient air.
 
Skyking1 wrote:

"... I'd keep the bottom open, which is where the temperatures are most stable... "

"... insulating the edge of the storage mass, and quite possibly the top too..."

He's not insulating the bottom of the coils, meaning he wants thermal conductance with the earth below.
 
I worked with a guy in the UK who claimed his house was about 300 years old. The stone walls were four feet thick. He said that just as the house was starting to get warm inside it would be the end of summer and the house stayed warm all winter. Same in reverse for summer. Natural thermal storage. Said he barely needed to provide supplemental heat.

Yes, but try that in some of the climates here in the US. Summer starts, and we get a heat wave along with high humidity, and that comes into contact with walls that are still cold from winter - condensation, mold, mildew, etc. In addition to just being plain uncomfortable.

For much of the world, I think you would need something more along the lines of the OP (which I'm not saying is practical) - store heat, cold or both, and use a system to transfer that to the home, so you can do it and control humidity at the same time.

-ERD50
 
Storage heaters in homes in the UK have been a thing for over 60 years. Stone filled radiators are placed in various rooms in the home and are heated up with cheap overnight electricity then are turned on to heat the house when needed.

https://www.heatershop.co.uk/storage-heaters
 
Storage heaters in homes in the UK have been a thing for over 60 years. Stone filled radiators are placed in various rooms in the home and are heated up with cheap overnight electricity then are turned on to heat the house when needed.

https://www.heatershop.co.uk/storage-heaters
The electrical coop that serves our lake home has a program like that. "Electric Thermal Storage" for space heating. They also have one where you buy a super-insulated 100 gallon hot water heater that runs only in off-peak hours with discounted rates.
 
There is a project in central Oregon where two reservoirs are being constructed. Solar panels pump water into the higher reservoir which is drained through turbines at night generating electricity.

"Back in the day" an office building in downtown Portland used pipes in the soil as a heat pump. I think the system was abandoned when the pumps needed replacement and electricity was cheap
 
There is a project in central Oregon where two reservoirs are being constructed. Solar panels pump water into the higher reservoir which is drained through turbines at night generating electricity.

"Back in the day" an office building in downtown Portland used pipes in the soil as a heat pump. I think the system was abandoned when the pumps needed replacement and electricity was cheap

The first air-conditioning occurred in Chicago where some bright person realized the utility and access tunnels that ran under the buildings were always cool even in the hottest part of the summer. They vented some of that cold air from the tunnels into movie theaters and instantly increased daily revenue.
 
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