Millions are "Unretiring"

[Car-Guy]

Not this old dog... I'm done working for others.

 

[JBTX]

With the shortage of workers some can experienced workers can re-enter the work force, at favorable compensation, working from home or even part time.

 

[Badger]

I'd rather sleep under a bridge.

As much as I enjoyed what I did for a living the environment of my career choice has changed in ways that I would not find to my liking anymore. Besides I don't think I have the patience or stamina. Even so I would want a refrigerator box to sleep in under that bridge.

Cheers!

 

[Midpack]

Many people were forced, induced or opted out of the workforce who wouldn’t have if not for the pandemic. Many like pilots, teachers, health care workers, ATCs and many basic jobs remain in high demand, so I’m not surprised they’ve “unretired” since they hadn’t planned to retire when they did. Every indication is wages are up, and signing bonuses are more common. And the article says the same.

But the problem is some of those former retirees who were pushed out of the workforce due to a layoff or accepted early retirement packages in the first year or so of the pandemic…

 

[punkinhead]

I’m going to go out on a limb and say that people are returning to work so that they can get money.

That's probably the majority but notice the number of threads on this and other retirement forums by people who complain they aren't fulfilled if they aren't cogs in a corporate machine. Filling out TPS reports gives a lot of people a sense of purpose. It boggles the mind, but it's pretty common.

 

[wrigley]

Someone's got to work. All I see are "NOW HIRING" signs at nearly every business I pass. A brand new gas station/convenience store opened about a 1/2 mile from my home in a good/upscale neighborhood. The gas pumps are going strong but the convenience store is closed most of the time because they can't get workers. They are offering $16-$18 an hour to start for the average 'workerbee' and $1000 sign on bonuses for those hiring on as shift supervisors. This is just one example. There are numerous restaurants around me that have cut back the number of days they are open because of staffing shortages. I just don't get young people today.

Mike

 

[street]

That's probably the majority but notice the number of threads on this and other retirement forums by people who complain they aren't fulfilled if they aren't cogs in a corporate machine. Filling out TPS reports gives a lot of people a sense of purpose. It boggles the mind, but it's pretty common.

People get programed and institutional has just became their life and can't life without a job, so they have a purpose.

Most people I know that are very well off went back t work because of boredom.

I have a friend that is worth millions and more millions. I talked to him yesterday and still working everyday but only till high noon than heads home. His company has 3 jets he told me I knew he had one but why three I have no idea. Most likely because he can, and he does have a big heart.

He said, he just couldn't live without his job will work till he can't anymore. Doesn't need money he is bored without a purpose.

 

[Midpack]

Someone's got to work. All I see are "NOW HIRING" signs at nearly every business I pass. A brand new gas station/convenience store opened about a 1/2 mile from my home in a good/upscale neighborhood. The gas pumps are going strong but the convenience store is closed most of the time because they can't get workers. They are offering $16-$18 an hour to start for the average 'workerbee' and $1000 sign on bonuses for those hiring on as shift supervisors. This is just one example. There are numerous restaurants around me that have cut back the number of days they are open because of staffing shortages. I just don't get young people today.

Mike

The shortage is not only due to pandemic job losses, but demographics are finally taking their toll. In the USA, Boomers are finally mostly out of the workforce and there aren’t near as many Zoomers to replace them - just pure numbers. IOW it’s not just “people don’t want to work” as some allege. Many countries, notably China, are now on the precipice of debilitating labor shortages due to simple demographics - a problem with no quick solutions. Birth rates can’t be “fixed” retroactively…

Labor data analysts today warned of a worsening “demographic drought” and its impact on a shrinking workforce and the American economy. The crisis, they said, is caused by a shortage of people projected to continue for the rest of this century and affect every business and region of the country. Their warning comes days after the U.S. Chamber of Commerce launched a campaign to address a growing shortage of workers.

The report takes an in-depth look at three pre-existing conditions that were made worse by the events of 2020, including the mass exodus of baby boomers from the workforce, record-low participation in the labor force by American workers who are 25 to 54 years old, and the lowest birth rate in U.S. history.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/edward...worsen-labor-shortage-crisis/?sh=33df1d5b4686

 

[MarieIG]

S&P was down around 23% at one point.

But then there's the 15% inflation on top of it over the last 2+ years, still high with prices continuing to climb quickly.

And it's not always a matter of having to go back to work, but choosing to because the budget won't allow as much discretionary spending as you were expecting, even if you can still cover the bills. I never retired, but it's the soaring inflation, which has NOT stopped skyrocketing yet, that has caused me to delay retirement to pad my discretionary budget. So, it's no surprise that some people would re-enter workforce for the same reason, even though their math is correct. So they save some more money so that they can travel further to find good pickleball opponents.

Yes. I suspect multiple factors "at work", with inflation (cost of food, rent, utilities) being issues for a number of people.

 

[marko]

From time to time on this forum--and in real life-- we come across these idiots who haven't fully thought the whole FIRE thing through, not understanding that their $200k nest egg and $100k debt just isn't going to do it for them long term.

Sure, during Covid, a lot of folks were laid off, furloughed or fired and they got a glimpse of staying home, not having to go to a job they hated while receiving some sort of compensation...a cruel joke in a way. Now the money has run out, the credit cards are maxed and the bills are piling up.

The fact is, they weren't really "retired" in the first place; saying it doesn't make it so. If a market drop or a doubling of gas prices is forcing one to "unretire", then maybe you were too hasty in declaring RE in the first place.

 

[Andre1969]

The fact is, they weren't really "retired" in the first place; saying it doesn't make it so.

To paraphrase a line from "Smokey and the Bandit"...

"Seems like an early retiree and an out of work bum look an awful lot alike, Daddy!"

 

[disneysteve]

From time to time on this forum--and in real life-- we come across these idiots who haven't fully thought the whole FIRE thing through, not understanding that their $200k nest egg and $100k debt just isn't going to do it for them long term.

Sure, during Covid, a lot of folks were laid off, furloughed or fired and they got a glimpse of staying home, not having to go to a job they hated while receiving some sort of compensation...a cruel joke in a way. Now the money has run out, the credit cards are maxed and the bills are piling up.

The fact is, they weren't really "retired" in the first place; saying it doesn't make it so. If a market drop or a doubling of gas prices is forcing one to "unretire", then maybe you were too hasty in declaring RE in the first place.

Very true.


I also think a lot of people forced out of the workforce due to COVID decided to start their own ventures so that they didn't have to return to the office. Some of those businesses took off and are doing very well but many others ultimately failed and now those folks are having to return to traditional jobs. None of those people were actually retired. Yes, they had left the official workforce but they were still doing work for pay, just in a non-traditional way that skewed the statistics.

 

[pjigar]

From time to time on this forum--and in real life-- we come across these idiots who haven't fully thought the whole FIRE thing through, not understanding that their $200k nest egg and $100k debt just isn't going to do it for them long term.

Sure, during Covid, a lot of folks were laid off, furloughed or fired and they got a glimpse of staying home, not having to go to a job they hated while receiving some sort of compensation...a cruel joke in a way. Now the money has run out, the credit cards are maxed and the bills are piling up.

The fact is, they weren't really "retired" in the first place; saying it doesn't make it so. If a market drop or a doubling of gas prices is forcing one to "unretire", then maybe you were too hasty in declaring RE in the first place.

I had a colleague with $2M NW but with over $150K in the annual expenses. He firmly believed that if he FIREed then he will NEVER run out of money. His reasoning: $2M is a LOT of money (which is but I tried to explain that it is not enough to support his lifestyle). Thankfully he kept working because he didn't know what he will do in FIRE.

 

[intent]

I probably technically fall into the unretired category, but it isn't my fault - I swear

When I quit I told my employer and co-workers that I was semi-retiring and that I planned to do some work in the future, just not as much and I wasn't sure what type of work it would be. Making a bit more money to stretch the accumulated non-tax advantaged funds comfortably until I reached 59.5 was part of my plan. I have it mapped out on a spreadsheet and everything.

Of course I didn't go into all the details of my plan with my employer/co-workers, and the only part of "semi-retirement" they heard was the bolded part. So, when I called them up after about a year and said, "Hey, if you need a consultant I could be available for a project now and then," some of them asked me why my retirement had failed. Most openly wondered if maybe I shouldn't have quit in the middle of the pandemic (I was one of those who actually stayed on longer than originally planned because of the pandemic and the opportunity it afforded me to WFH).

My old boss fretted that he'd love to have me do consulting work but he was concerned for me because the company doesn't pay consultants rapidly - sometimes it can take up to three months to be paid for the work - and he wanted to make sure that I could make it that long without income. I explained to him that wouldn't be an issue .

It's like someone said upthread, part of the problem is how people define, or mis-define retirement.

 

[Car-Guy]

I had a colleague with $2M NW but with over $150K in the annual expenses. He firmly believed that if he FIREed then he will NEVER run out of money. His reasoning: $2M is a LOT of money (which is but I tried to explain that it not enough to support his lifestyle). Thankfully he kept working because he didn't know what he will do in FIRE.

Probably would workout just fine if he was 85+. Might even make it a bit younger if he counts SS.

 

[jfn111]

From time to time on this forum--and in real life-- we come across these idiots who haven't fully thought the whole FIRE thing through, not understanding that their $200k nest egg and $100k debt just isn't going to do it for them long term.

Sure, during Covid, a lot of folks were laid off, furloughed or fired and they got a glimpse of staying home, not having to go to a job they hated while receiving some sort of compensation...a cruel joke in a way. Now the money has run out, the credit cards are maxed and the bills are piling up.

The fact is, they weren't really "retired" in the first place; saying it doesn't make it so. If a market drop or a doubling of gas prices is forcing one to "unretire", then maybe you were too hasty in declaring RE in the first place.

A friend of mine recently went back to work because of too much spending and to little savings. He opted to cash out his retirement plan, rather then a pension, and found out you cant spend 10% per year and have it be sustainable.
So at 70 he's stocking shelves 20 hours a week for $15 bucks an hour.

 

[steelyman]

It happens that today is the anniversary of my leaving the working world (in 2011). Job and people were great but “unretiring” has never entered my mind.

 

[pjigar]

Probably would workout just fine if he was 85+. Might even make it a bit younger if he counts SS.

He was 50 at the time.

 

[Midpack]

A friend of mine recently went back to work because of to much spending and to little savings. He opted to cash out his retirement plan, rather then a pension, and found out you cant spend 10% per year and have it be sustainable.
So at 70 he's stocking shelves 20 hours a week for $15 bucks an hour.

I play golf with three "retirees" who work at a local golf course, and another who does Amazon deliveries and Ubers...

 

[Car-Guy]

He was 50 at the time.

I was joking but I'd agree, it's extremely unlikely that he'd make it retiring at 50, with 2m and a 150k spend rate even with SS. "Unless, he has a fabulous retirement annuity and/or knows his lifespan will be significantly limited.

Now if he were ~15 years older and cut his spend rate to ~125k, along with SS, he have a reasonable chance, IMO.

 

[Andre1969]

He was 50 at the time.

I hit $2M a couple months before I turned 50, and was seriously thinking about retiring. My goal at the time was $80K per year, which was more than I'd really need, but also gives me a lot of cushioning if I want to spend more than I normally do. At the time, FireCalc gave me a 93.9% chance of success. That's with the assumption of starting SS at age 62.

I have a spreadsheet that tracked my chances of success at various spending levels and various ages, and I update it every year. It only goes up to $110K per year, which is way more than I'd ever need. Anyway, it gave me a 44.4% chance of success at $110K. I don't even want to think what the chance of success at $150K/yr would have been!

I guess some people just have no idea how fast the money can run out. Or, perhaps they've had a few good years, and think the prosperity will go on forever? As for me, the Covid crash knocked me down from around $2.05M to under $1.4M in the matter of a month and a few days. That was a wakeup call to me, that I wasn't as mentally prepared as I thought I'd be. That, plus they had us start working from home, and then it just started feeling like easy money. So here I am, at 52, still working. I'm back up over $2M. But once you've dropped a good chunk and regain it, it just doesn't seem the same. Plus, there's that little inflation issue, which doesn't exactly inspire confidence!

FWIW, I ran FireCalc again on May 24 of this year, and it still gives me a good chance...99% of making it on $80K per year. Meanwhile, $110K per year has risen a bit to 56.7%. So $150K per year, which still seems like a ton of money to me, would still be nowhere near obtainable.

 

[rdy4er]

I’m 8 months into retirement (Jan 22). I was really getting worried around April to June. Started looking at job postings. Then I thought about it and realized I’m at a 3.5% instead of a 3% wdr. No thanks, I’m enjoying retirement too much.

 

[W2R]

After studying hard and learning as much as I could both here and on the Bogleheads forum, plus books from the Bogleheads book list, I retired 13 years ago. At first, like many new retirees I was worried that I might be spending above my means.

But by now, I think I "have the hang of it", so to speak. I have been saving money and adding it to my portfolio in retirement, so I have more now than I did then. I can't foresee ever having to un-retire for financial reasons, short of some type of extreme financial apocalypse affecting the entire country. Income from my SS, my mini-pension, and my equal monthly payments from the TSP "G Fund" pretty well covers my needs and wants. I don't even withdraw from my portfolio any more, but it's there, and growing (most of the time! ) in case I need it later on.

I can't even IMAGINE voluntarily un-retiring. That has to be due to poor financial preparation for retirement, or some unforeseen and horrendously difficult situations that ate up all the money unexpectedly.

 

[MarieIG]

A friend of mine recently went back to work because of too much spending and to little savings. He opted to cash out his retirement plan, rather then a pension, and found out you cant spend 10% per year and have it be sustainable.
So at 70 he's stocking shelves 20 hours a week for $15 bucks an hour.

There are a lot of people running around out there who simply don't have a clue how to handle money and would be much better off with a life time pension (assuming it is properly funded).

 

[CardsFan]

I play golf with three "retirees" who work at a local golf course, and another who does Amazon deliveries and Ubers...

I have talked to several course Marshall's that do this. It gets them outside 3-4 days a week and they can play free (but usually not on weekends, but then why would they). Not sure they even get compensated beyond the free golf. As I understand there is usually a waiting list a mile long for this gig. More of a hobby than a job, but there is a schedule, and you need to be there.