Solar, Wind Renewable Energy

[Another Reader]

I have been wondering, if PG&E is so inept and incompetent, why not let it go bankrupt and allow another entity to pick up the business to do a better job? In other businesses, that's how the weak companies die and the better ones thrive.

It seems to me there's something more complicated than that in this case.

Government interference in the process. PG&E is "too big to fail" and the legislature and the governor operate under this assumption.

We went through this maybe 30 years ago with deregulation of the electricity market. The public utilities were required to sell off their plants. It became obvious that the slow witted folks at PG&E were about to be bankrupted by fast talking hustlers from markets that were not regulated. Some compromise was worked out that I can't recall, but there is still a "market" with an auction process.

 

[Another Reader]

The person that had a front row seat at this play is Skipro. He worked for the Sacramento folks, who run their electricity as a public utility. The City of Santa Clara bailed and sold out their residents unfortunately. If he is still around here, I'm sure he has better information to share.

 

[Venturer]

The best source of light without electricity is a mantle light. As a kid, I saw them used, but forgot about them until now.

I remember that they burned kerosene. Kerosene is safer to store than gasoline, so that's a plus.

Kerosene/diesel is safer to store but those Colemans used "coleman fuel" or in case of none availible "WhiteGas" was what was used in the 60's. I still have 2 of those cloeman lanterns hanging in my storage shed, they haven't been used since late 1990's so they may not even pump up anymore. Who knows mabe someday my grandaughter might find them to be a collectors item and sell them and get rich. Probably not but you never know.

 

[braumeister]

Kerosene/diesel is safer to store but those Colemans used "coleman fuel" or in case of none available "WhiteGas" was what was used in the 60's.

You're right, now that you mention it. I forgot all about that. It used to be available in any hardware store.

 

[JoeWras]

White gas is what my dad used to fire his lead pot melting furnace. (Plumbing)

Yes kids, plumbers used to have melted lead in the house. Vapors! Call the HazMat team!

 

[Koolau]

Wave Energy looks fascinating!

I wonder what materials survive full time in sea water. (Ships don't.) We're miles from the coast, and just the sea air destroys our iron gate, aluminum windows, stainless fixtures, wood, reinforced concrete. Putting something in sea water seems like it would require constant maintenance (as do ships) but YMMV.

 

[Gumby]

Kerosene/diesel is safer to store but those Colemans used "coleman fuel" or in case of none availible "WhiteGas" was what was used in the 60's. I still have 2 of those cloeman lanterns hanging in my storage shed, they haven't been used since late 1990's so they may not even pump up anymore. Who knows mabe someday my grandaughter might find them to be a collectors item and sell them and get rich. Probably not but you never know.

It's naptha. I have one of those lanterns on standby in my garage.

 

[Koolau]

In case anyone was wondering, just how a solar panel actually works.

https://interestingengineering.com/innovation/what-are-solar-panels

Interesting read. Thanks. I knew the principle, but wasn't familiar with the details of the actual panels.

 

[Koolau]

Neither do I....Methane leaks spewing out of the Permian Basin could provide enough energy to power 7 million households in Texas for a year.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/methane-permian-basin-oil-gas-climate-change/

We are fortunate that nature does remove methane from air. It's too slow a process to keep up with all the leaks of course. SO leak detection and remediation seems like a no-brainer rather than the infant methane-removal systems. It's always more efficient to deal with anything at its source than when it is diluted - just ask any domestic-waste treatment person. I honestly think leak remediation might be a more productive approach - at least now - than moving so fast toward requiring EVs over ICE.

If all the EV subsidy money were used instead to detect and plug methane leaks, I'm SWAGing that it would be more effective than CO2 removal via EVs - since EVs are NOT actually carbon neutral. I'm no expert so YMMV.

 

[Samsung4321]

reviewing the bills, the bigger problem for me is the gas bill in the winter months. I would have to build a big enough system to make up for that, including storage, to make this worthwhile today.

Consider installing electric split system reversible heat pumps in the most used rooms such as master bedroom, kitchen and / or living room and the like. Use resistive heating for less frequented and / or small rooms.

Works best where overnight temperature is > ~-10C where Coefficient of Performance is > ~3.

We have found that a 3.5 kW heat / 1 kW electric unit in the kitchen / family room is enough to heat on frosty nights in winter and cool several nearby rooms on 40C summer days. A box fan can improve efficiency by reducing room temperature stratification and move cool air down passages.

 

[camfused]

FYI, got my quote yesterday for a system that handles 75% of my needs, and has 12 panels on the roof and 2 Tesla batteries: $40,600, after the 30% tax credit. Forget it!

 

[Beststash]

If all the EV subsidy money were used instead to detect and plug methane leaks, I'm SWAGing that it would be more effective than CO2 removal via EVs - since EVs are NOT actually carbon neutral. I'm no expert so YMMV.

I suspect you are correct in your assessment. The issue of dealing with methane leaks is called a "Sisyphean Task" by the Texas Railroad Commission (in charge of oil and gas production). However, methane leaks are just a small part of the total impact of fossil fuel production. The true costs are far removed from the fuels and electricity we purchase directly at the pump or when we pay our electric bill. Examples being public and private health expenditures, military budgets, emergency relief funds, and the destruction of ecosystems. The costs are real.

Renewable energy—such as wind and solar power—has far fewer negative impacts at competitive prices. IMO, The transition of the electricity and transportation sectors are critical.

For anyone interested in the orphan well problem - this commission report explains it quite well.
https://commissionshift.org/wp-cont...-Wells-and-Sites-in-Texas_CommissionShift.pdf

 

[Chuckanut]

FYI, got my quote yesterday for a system that handles 75% of my needs, and has 12 panels on the roof and 2 Tesla batteries: $40,600, after the 30% tax credit. Forget it!

I’ve found the bids I have received for a mini split heat pump to be very high. I suspect they know about the new Federal subsidies and are trying to capture most of it for themselves. And maybe more.

 

[Samsung4321]

I’ve found the bids I have received for a mini split heat pump to be very high. I suspect they know about the new Federal subsidies and are trying to capture most of it for themselves. And maybe more.

Typical charges for supply and install:
https://acstore.com.au/split-system-installs-quotes/

3.5 kWh heat 'back-to-back':
Supply $A750 (second tier brand) - $A1,000 (first tier)
Install $A750
Total $A1,500

Electricity cost: $0.20 / kWh
Hours electricity @ 0.500 kW: $A1,500 / 0.2 / 2 = 15,000 h
Heating 100 d / y, 5 h / d: 500 h / y
Years of electricity charges equal to heat pump capital cost: 30 y.

For small heating requirements such as small room with modest use, a modest resistive heater is financial more efficient.

 

[Samsung4321]

FYI, got my quote yesterday for a system that handles 75% of my needs, and has 12 panels on the roof and 2 Tesla batteries: $40,600, after the 30% tax credit. Forget it!

Household batteries are uneconomic where reliable grid access is available.

Where over supply / grid congestion / unreliability is a factor, community batteries are more economically rational.

 

[Koolau]

I suspect you are correct in your assessment. The issue of dealing with methane leaks is called a "Sisyphean Task" by the Texas Railroad Commission (in charge of oil and gas production). However, methane leaks are just a small part of the total impact of fossil fuel production. The true costs are far removed from the fuels and electricity we purchase directly at the pump or when we pay our electric bill. Examples being public and private health expenditures, military budgets, emergency relief funds, and the destruction of ecosystems. The costs are real.

Renewable energy—such as wind and solar power—has far fewer negative impacts at competitive prices. IMO, The transition of the electricity and transportation sectors are critical.

For anyone interested in the orphan well problem - this commission report explains it quite well.
https://commissionshift.org/wp-cont...-Wells-and-Sites-in-Texas_CommissionShift.pdf

Thanks for the report. Heh, heh, that's almost 80 pages. You wanna "bottom line" it for us?

I agree that there are hidden costs in FF production/distributions/supply/"supply insurance" etc. But I look around at our country (and world) and wonder "What would this all look like if we'd never discovered and exploited FFs?" For all their problems, FFs have transformed our world from just a bit beyond the bronze age to our jet age. I'll take my share of responsibility for the bad effects, but I won't apologize for liking hot showers, warm homes in the winter and cool home in the summer, cars and airplanes that shrink our world. It's a trade off we have made. I think it's been worth it, though we are now smart enough and rich enough to begin undoing the worst of the worst problems we've created. I just don't want to see us throw out the baby, so to speak. YMMV

 

[Montecfo]

^^^ you make a good point.

Stated differently, the war on fossil fuels is a war on prosperity. How will Asia and Latin America lift the masses out of poverty without cheap and abundant fossil fuels?

 

[Popeye]

Thanks for the report. Heh, heh, that's almost 80 pages. You wanna "bottom line" it for us?

I agree that there are hidden costs in FF production/distributions/supply/"supply insurance" etc. But I look around at our country (and world) and wonder "What would this all look like if we'd never discovered and exploited FFs?" For all their problems, FFs have transformed our world from just a bit beyond the bronze age to our jet age. I'll take my share of responsibility for the bad effects, but I won't apologize for liking hot showers, warm homes in the winter and cool home in the summer, cars and airplanes that shrink our world. It's a trade off we have made. I think it's been worth it, though we are now smart enough and rich enough to begin undoing the worst of the worst problems we've created. I just don't want to see us throw out the baby, so to speak. YMMV

So true. You can’t talk cost / benefit and ignore the benefits. And to my eye the benefits are orders of magnitude more than the costs. FF economy has lifted billions of people out of object poverty and starvation.

 

[explanade]

^^^ you make a good point.

Stated differently, the war on fossil fuels is a war on prosperity. How will Asia and Latin America lift the masses out of poverty without cheap and abundant fossil fuels?

Unless Asia, particularly coastal SE Asia, is inundated with sea level rise, setting them back as their most productive cities suffer big economic losses.

 

[ERD50]

... But I look around at our country (and world) and wonder "What would this all look like if we'd never discovered and exploited FFs?" ...

Well, for one thing, whales would probably be extinct (at least the ones hunted for their whale oil). I suspect that the advance of the petroleum industry did more to "save the whales" than any modern day environmental groups.

-ERD50

 

[camfused]

Household batteries are uneconomic where reliable grid access is available.

Where over supply / grid congestion / unreliability is a factor, community batteries are more economically rational.

Yes. I also got a quote for just panels (12 panels, 4.8Kw), and it was $18,700 (after credits). Still too much for me, for a system that supplies 75% of my needs, and does zilch for me when the grid goes down.

 

[Montecfo]

Unless Asia, particularly coastal SE Asia, is inundated with sea level rise, setting them back as their most productive cities suffer big economic losses.

There is no evidence scientifically that we can reduce the Earth's temperature. There is no serious etfort underway to attempt to do so.

We should do what we have done since the beginning of time, and adapt.
And continue to innovate and use cheap abumdant fuel to give other people the chance to escape poverty.

 

[Samsung4321]

Yes. I also got a quote for just panels (12 panels, 4.8Kw), and it was $18,700 (after credits). Still too much for me, for a system that supplies 75% of my needs, and does zilch for me when the grid goes down.

Get a quote, if you can, of installation cost only, you supply panels & inverter.

Inverters single phase in Australia: $A1,200 ($USA840)

Panels in Australia: ~$A0.6 / W. (~$USA0.42 / W) ( Wholesale solar panels China )

4.8 kW * $600 / kW = $A2,880 ($USA2,000).

Retail cost: $A2,880 + $A1,200 = ~$A4,000 (~$USA2,800)

$18,700 (after credits)

implies ~$16,000 installation cost.

 

[Beststash]

if you can dream it you can achieve it

Refreshing to read that it is possible to do what we all know it necessary. Yes, it will be challenging but we can do it if we can get the fossil fuel worshipers on board. Imagine if the State of Texas would commit to clean energy (I know it's hard to do) and how that would change the world.

No miracles needed’: Prof Mark Jacobson on how wind, sun and water can power the world

“Combustion is the problem – when you’re continuing to burn something, that’s not solving the problem,” says Prof Mark Jacobson.

The Stanford University academic has a compelling pitch: the world can rapidly get 100% of its energy from renewable sources with, as the title of his new book says, “no miracles needed”.

Wind, water and solar can provide plentiful and cheap power, he argues, ending the carbon emissions driving the climate crisis, slashing deadly air pollution and ensuring energy security. Carbon capture and storage, biofuels, new nuclear and other technologies are expensive wastes of time, he argues.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...on-how-wind-sun-and-water-can-power-the-world

 

[Montecfo]

There is no serious effort to end fossil fuels. There is no serious effort to reduce carbon. The world's fastest growing users of fossil fuels are not in the US or Europe. They are in China and India where they are under no constraints whatsoever to rein in carbon.

Nor is it feasible as we do not have alternatives ready to go. Best hope is nuclear but new plants are years away.

The masses in Asia and in Latin America live in dire poverty, but these are emerging economies.

Any serious plan to reduce carbon emissions requires these nations to be on board. They are not on board, and with good reason. Their constituents are much more desirous of rising out of poverty than worrying about weather.