Florida living

[JoeWras]

The answer is to reduce population and severely restrict standard of living. Each person should have less than 300 SQ ft of living space, preferably in standard high density buildings, not built from cement based products.

We can feel try to feel good about electric cars, but it's a drop in the bucket. The heavy hitters are agriculture and cement production.

Or we can explore nuclear in a very serious way. But that's "denied" by strong voices.

 

[Route246]

This hits the nail on the head. It is not warming. It is about temperature gradients which are trending upward. It is also not about micro-timelines. It is a macro-timeline that needs to be respected because that is what the insurance companies are basing their actuarial estimates on. Raising insurance rates in Florida is just an indicator of what the smart money thinks will happen. Money talks. It is as simple as that. No amount of politics is going to fix what is going on there.

You cannot force insurance companies to take losses. That is now how they operate. Only FEMA and the federal government can do that.

All weather phenomena - clouds, wind, rain, tornados, hurricanes, etc. - are caused by unequal solar heating causing temperature gradients. Generally, the more unequal the heating, the stronger the temperature gradient and the stronger the wind, tornado, hurricane etc. Anything that puts extra heat energy into the system has the potential to cause more unequal heating and therefore stronger and more frequent storms. So, you're right, you cant say any one particular storm is caused by global warming, but you can say that when there are more frequent and stronger storms, that is caused by global warming.

 

[Montecfo]

So where does the money come from when we have to clean up these disasters ?

There was a heavy rain event in the Northeast last week.....the cleanup bill is estimated in multiple Billions.

Doing 'nothing' is not a wise choice.

They always seem to say storms caused "record damage". But that is due to inflation and more building in flood prone areas.

The best mitigation is to stop doing that, and fortify flood prone areas, which has been done for centuries.

 

[Ronstar]

There is definite climate change. Climate has always changed. I remember people freaking out over the upcoming ice age 50 years ago. Now the focus is on warming and its affects. Some claim that recent Florida hurricanes are due to climate change.

The truth is that there is no consensus on the cause of climate change and what to do about it. I’m fairly certain that the climate change mitigation measures currently proposed by the US government (electric cars, banning gas stoves, shutting down pipelines, etc) will have little affect on lessening storm damage.

And the government can’t battle it with FEMA. The market forces will take over. Increases in insurance premiums, construction costs, will temper building in geographic areas prone to natural disasters, but people will still want to live there. Sooner or later, living in an area prone to natural disasters will subject the inhabitants to storm damage. But IMO, man will not be able to disrupt Mother Nature. It would be best to live somewhere less prone to natural disasters.

Caveat emptor.

 

[Route246]

I believe talking about climate change just leads to disingenuous political discussion. I believe in free markets and insurance rates are increasing due to increased risk. There is enough competition in the insurance marketplace so if one company is gouging it means that other companies will come in and scoop up the profit left on the table. That's how markets work. In poker terms the insurance companies just raised the pot so the price of poker just went up.

The problem is the poor hapless homeowner is paying for this.

There is definite climate change. Climate has always changed. I remember people freaking out over the upcoming ice age 50 years ago. Now the focus is on warming and its affects. Some claim that recent Florida hurricanes are due to climate change.

The truth is that there is no consensus on the cause of climate change and what to do about it. I’m fairly certain that the climate change mitigation measures currently proposed by the US government (electric cars, banning gas stoves, shutting down pipelines, etc) will have little affect on lessening storm damage.

And the government can’t battle it with FEMA. The market forces will take over. Increases in insurance premiums, construction costs, will temper building in geographic areas prone to natural disasters, but people will still want to live there. Sooner or later, living in an area prone to natural disasters will subject the inhabitants to storm damage. But IMO, man will not be able to disrupt Mother Nature. It would be best to live somewhere less prone to natural disasters.

Caveat emptor.

 

[Scuba]

OP here. If y’all want to start a separate thread on climate change or lack thereof, feel free to do so. I’d like to get this thread back on track with my original purpose of posting it, which was to gain insight from the many ER members familiar with different areas of FL.

DH and I have explored South FL pretty extensively now. We eliminated the East Coast after spending time there. We aren’t interested in going north of Sarasota on the West Coast. We’ve looked at Sarasota/Venice and Ft. Meyers/Estero/Bonita Springs and Naples. We are finding that we really like the Palmer Ranch area of Sarasota or several neighborhoods near Wellen Park in Venice. Lakewood Ranch seems a little too busy and removed from the beaches for us. Naples is beautiful but expensive, and to get newer property which helps a lot with insurance costs, you have to go pretty far inland. Ft. Meyers and nearby areas also seemed very busy to us, plus the Naples/Ft. Meyers areas have historically been affected by major hurricanes almost four times more often than the Sarasota/Venice area.

Property prices are still quite high by historical standards, but properties seem to be sitting on the market longer and are making price concessions. Still, prices are much higher than 2-3 years ago.

We are avoiding anything built pre-2012 on the advice of the home insurance broker. Also avoiding anything in a flood zone for obvious reasons. We have consulted the insurance broker to get homeowner’s, auto insurance, and umbrella quotes. Also our health insurance to get quotes on that. Surprisingly, health insurance is far more expensive in FL vs CA for similar coverage.

We haven’t made any offers yet but are getting closer to making our decision. Our beach condo in CA has closed escrow, and a home close to ours in Palm Springs just went into escrow at a very high price after only a few days on market. We haven’t listed our Desert home yet and won’t do it until we have another place to go.
We considered keeping it as a second home, but that doesn’t make sense as much as we travel, plus if we move, we don’t want to give the CA FTB any reason to suggest that we are partial year CA residents.

We are in FL for another month, and if we don’t find what we’re looking for by then, our realtor will continue looking for us and we can view properties remotely.

If anyone has any thoughts on the areas I mentioned or anything else we should research, please comment.

 

[Aerides]

OP here. If y’all want to start a separate thread on climate change or lack thereof, feel free to do so. I’d like to get this thread back on track with my original purpose of posting it, which was to gain insight from the many ER members familiar with different areas of FL.

<<Mod Note>>
Well said. Let's not derail yet another thread with the pointless back and forth posturing on climate change. Regardless of your personal political beliefs, attempting to bring them up within the context of this discussion will only derail it, as it always does, as many of those making the arguments are well aware.

Further attempts to disrupt and focus on climate change vs. the actual topic will be deleted, or lead to thread closure.

 

[iloveyoga]

OP here. If y’all want to start a separate thread on climate change or lack thereof, feel free to do so. I’d like to get this thread back on track with my original purpose of posting it, which was to gain insight from the many ER members familiar with different areas of FL.

DH and I have explored South FL pretty extensively now. We eliminated the East Coast after spending time there. We aren’t interested in going north of Sarasota on the West Coast. We’ve looked at Sarasota/Venice and Ft. Meyers/Estero/Bonita Springs and Naples. We are finding that we really like the Palmer Ranch area of Sarasota or several neighborhoods near Wellen Park in Venice. Lakewood Ranch seems a little too busy and removed from the beaches for us. Naples is beautiful but expensive, and to get newer property which helps a lot with insurance costs, you have to go pretty far inland. Ft. Meyers and nearby areas also seemed very busy to us, plus the Naples/Ft. Meyers areas have historically been affected by major hurricanes almost four times more often than the Sarasota/Venice area.

Property prices are still quite high by historical standards, but properties seem to be sitting on the market longer and are making price concessions. Still, prices are much higher than 2-3 years ago.

We are avoiding anything built pre-2012 on the advice of the home insurance broker. Also avoiding anything in a flood zone for obvious reasons. We have consulted the insurance broker to get homeowner’s, auto insurance, and umbrella quotes. Also our health insurance to get quotes on that. Surprisingly, health insurance is far more expensive in FL vs CA for similar coverage.

We haven’t made any offers yet but are getting closer to making our decision. Our beach condo in CA has closed escrow, and a home close to ours in Palm Springs just went into escrow at a very high price after only a few days on market. We haven’t listed our Desert home yet and won’t do it until we have another place to go.
We considered keeping it as a second home, but that doesn’t make sense as much as we travel, plus if we move, we don’t want to give the CA FTB any reason to suggest that we are partial year CA residents.

We are in FL for another month, and if we don’t find what we’re looking for by then, our realtor will continue looking for us and we can view properties remotely.

If anyone has any thoughts on the areas I mentioned or anything else we should research, please comment.

I have enjoyed reading about your Florida home search story. No real feedback to add as a lifelong Iowa resident. I was in Sarasota last December with my son and his family and we all loved it. Seemed easy to get around and an easy drive to very beautiful beaches. Good luck with your decision, you have done great (and fun) research.

 

[Rocket Man]

OP here. If y’all want to start a separate thread on climate change or lack thereof, feel free to do so. I’d like to get this thread back on track with my original purpose of posting it, which was to gain insight from the many ER members familiar with different areas of FL.

DH and I have explored South FL pretty extensively now. We eliminated the East Coast after spending time there. We aren’t interested in going north of Sarasota on the West Coast. We’ve looked at Sarasota/Venice and Ft. Meyers/Estero/Bonita Springs and Naples. We are finding that we really like the Palmer Ranch area of Sarasota or several neighborhoods near Wellen Park in Venice. Lakewood Ranch seems a little too busy and removed from the beaches for us. Naples is beautiful but expensive, and to get newer property which helps a lot with insurance costs, you have to go pretty far inland. Ft. Meyers and nearby areas also seemed very busy to us, plus the Naples/Ft. Meyers areas have historically been affected by major hurricanes almost four times more often than the Sarasota/Venice area.

Property prices are still quite high by historical standards, but properties seem to be sitting on the market longer and are making price concessions. Still, prices are much higher than 2-3 years ago.

We are avoiding anything built pre-2012 on the advice of the home insurance broker. Also avoiding anything in a flood zone for obvious reasons. We have consulted the insurance broker to get homeowner’s, auto insurance, and umbrella quotes. Also our health insurance to get quotes on that. Surprisingly, health insurance is far more expensive in FL vs CA for similar coverage.

We haven’t made any offers yet but are getting closer to making our decision. Our beach condo in CA has closed escrow, and a home close to ours in Palm Springs just went into escrow at a very high price after only a few days on market. We haven’t listed our Desert home yet and won’t do it until we have another place to go.
We considered keeping it as a second home, but that doesn’t make sense as much as we travel, plus if we move, we don’t want to give the CA FTB any reason to suggest that we are partial year CA residents.

We are in FL for another month, and if we don’t find what we’re looking for by then, our realtor will continue looking for us and we can view properties remotely.

If anyone has any thoughts on the areas I mentioned or anything else we should research, please comment.

Sounds to me like you have done all your homework. I am familiar with all of those southwest Florida areas and I would agree with all of your observations and conclusions. Hope you find your home soon!

 

[Montecfo]

It has been a great thread. I have learned so much.

Wishing much success to Scuba and DH on this latest leg of their journey.

 

[JoeWras]

I have learned a lot about the unique challenges of obtaining home insurance in FL. This is so new to me and nothing like when I lived there in the 80s.

This is timely since I'm visiting my niece and she's considering a move to FL. I just casually mentioned that she should look at insurance. The next day she came back to me and said she was shocked over the issue. Where she lives now, all the big insurers service her zip code for very reasonable premiums.

 

[aja8888]

MY ex SIL is trying to sell a $600+ K home in the Ft. Meyers area. It's been on the market for a couple of months with no offers and a couple of price reductions. They want to move further north and build a new home there.

They are starting to get frustrated and antsy. Homeowner's insurance costs are not helping.

 

[Koolau]

MY ex SIL is trying to sell a $600+ K home in the Ft. Meyers area. It's been on the market for a couple of months with no offers and a couple of price reductions. They want to move further north and build a new home there.

They are starting to get frustrated and antsy. Homeowner's insurance costs are not helping.

I'm guessing if Florida has a couple of years of relative Hurricane quiet, the insurance issue will begin to resolve itself. Otherwise, insurers will come up with "pool" insurance. In this sort of arrangement, the insurers pool their resources and cap their payouts. IOW a small storm wouldn't be a problem. Customers would be fully paid. A large storm might deplete the pool - but that would then end the insurers' responsibilities toward their customers. Customer would "share" what was in the pool. If it were not enough, then the customer (Insured) would just receive part of what they needed to repair/replace their damaged properties. I believe this is the way Hawaii does it. Insurance companies love it because their liability is fixed and known. They can then charge less for such insurance. Customers tolerate it because it is less expensive and better than nothing.



I have told you way more than I know about it, but I think this is about right. Could have changed since we carried that kind of insurance so YMMV.

 

[523HRR]

You should give Naples another look. We love it here: boating, beaches, restaurants, golf, tennis/pickleball…

 

[Scuba]

I have enjoyed reading about your Florida home search story. No real feedback to add as a lifelong Iowa resident. I was in Sarasota last December with my son and his family and we all loved it. Seemed easy to get around and an easy drive to very beautiful beaches. Good luck with your decision, you have done great (and fun) research.

Thank you so much!

 

[Scuba]

Sounds to me like you have done all your homework. I am familiar with all of those southwest Florida areas and I would agree with all of your observations and conclusions. Hope you find your home soon!

Thank you so much! I hope so too. Although generally homes are sitting on the market longer than a year ago, we’ve had two great looking homes pop up online and sell within 24 hours. Guessing the listing agents already had buyers lined up before listing publicly. We were so disappointed as both looked great for our needs and we jumped on them right away, only to be told both had already gone into escrow. Well priced and well located properties are definitely selling quickly!

 

[Scuba]

It has been a great thread. I have learned so much.

Wishing much success to Scuba and DH on this latest leg of their journey.

Thank you so much!

 

[Scuba]

I have learned a lot about the unique challenges of obtaining home insurance in FL. This is so new to me and nothing like when I lived there in the 80s.

This is timely since I'm visiting my niece and she's considering a move to FL. I just casually mentioned that she should look at insurance. The next day she came back to me and said she was shocked over the issue. Where she lives now, all the big insurers service her zip code for very reasonable premiums.

Yes, we’ve been Allstate customers for 20+ years in CA, and they told us they couldn’t quote us on any homeowners, auto or umbrella in FL. It’s possible to get insurance, but much easier to get it at a reasonable cost if it’s relatively new construction and not in a flood zone.

 

[Scuba]

You should give Naples another look. We love it here: boating, beaches, restaurants, golf, tennis/pickleball…

What areas do you suggest? Feel free to PM me. We do think Naples is beautiful. Everything is pristine there.

 

[FlaGator]

I'm guessing if Florida has a couple of years of relative Hurricane quiet, the insurance issue will begin to resolve itself. Otherwise, insurers will come up with "pool" insurance. In this sort of arrangement, the insurers pool their resources and cap their payouts. IOW a small storm wouldn't be a problem. Customers would be fully paid. A large storm might deplete the pool - but that would then end the insurers' responsibilities toward their customers. Customer would "share" what was in the pool. If it were not enough, then the customer (Insured) would just receive part of what they needed to repair/replace their damaged properties. I believe this is the way Hawaii does it. Insurance companies love it because their liability is fixed and known. They can then charge less for such insurance. Customers tolerate it because it is less expensive and better than nothing.



I have told you way more than I know about it, but I think this is about right. Could have changed since we carried that kind of insurance so YMMV.

Florida has a few unique insurance problems. The first is the trial bar has had free rein for decades, and another is the catastrophic nature of storms. The bar has been reined in a bit over the last year, but any carrier active until the reforms were in place have that liability (mostly "damaged roofs") for years. The state-chartered Citizens insurance company carried a big part of the policies after the bad years of 2004-5. They worked that book down, only to have startup carriers fail in the last few years. I won't be surprised if they are re-capitalized by the state. It's in everyone's interest to have available (if not "affordable") insurance.

As for the storms, it's been random in my 25 years in FL. Nothing, then really bad (2004-5), then nothing, then a few really bad ones. That's what the re-insurance market is for.

Hopefully, now that the go-forward "roof replacement" problem has been addressed, all we have to deal with is the hurricane/reinsurance challenge.

 

[Badger]

I have learned a lot about the unique challenges of obtaining home insurance in FL. This is so new to me and nothing like when I lived there in the 80s.

This is timely since I'm visiting my niece and she's considering a move to FL. I just casually mentioned that she should look at insurance. The next day she came back to me and said she was shocked over the issue. Where she lives now, all the big insurers service her zip code for very reasonable premiums.

If your niece does move to Florida she may not even be able to get home insurance with many companies abandoning the state.

Cheers!

 

[Aerides]

If your niece does move to Florida she may not even be able to get home insurance with many companies abandoning the state.

Cheers!

But that is what Citizens is for. You cannot be turned away or told "nope, no insurance for you" - you can be referred to another competitive company, but if there is none willing to ensure you, Citizens is.

 

[JP.mpls]

Easy bicycling would be the the biggest attraction of Florida or another coastal region for me, though I wouldn't want to be out of day-trip distance of mountains.

I have lived within 1-1/2 hours of mountains all my life. The only place east of the Mississippi I can think of with flat coastal terrain that close to mountains is New Jersey.

Out of Steam,
The biggest mountain we bicycle over in FL is a man made overpass built for golf carts to cross the road.

I suspect that isn't what you are looking for.

When I vacationed in Tucson there was a beautiful smooth windy road heading to the top of Mt. Lemon. Lots of bikers going up and down the mountain. I would need a lot of practice to manage that. It looked fun.

Take care.

 

[Koolau]

Out of Steam,
The biggest mountain we bicycle over in FL is a man made overpass built for golf carts to cross the road.

I suspect that isn't what you are looking for.

When I vacationed in Tucson there was a beautiful smooth windy road heading to the top of Mt. Lemon. Lots of bikers going up and down the mountain. I would need a lot of practice to manage that. It looked fun.

Take care.

Sorry, but cycling up hill in Tucson doesn't sound like fun. Challenging? Yes. Fun. No. YMMV

 

[JP.mpls]

Sorry, but cycling up hill in Tucson doesn't sound like fun. Challenging? Yes. Fun. No. YMMV

Koolaid,
It was February. 50-60F degrees.