Tipping

This keeps coming up, yet is, so far, unsupported. The employee does have an incentive to not report cash gratuities. The employer does have an incentive to fully comply with all reporting requirements. Given the data I’ve cited comes from employers, I lean toward accepting it.
I've concluded that under reporting happens rarely in most outlets. My thinking goes like this... most outlets accept credit cards, and the tips go on the cards. The employer knows that the credit card data could be pulled by law enforcement, and would be "hard evidence" that could indicate wrongdoing with significant penalties. Thus, tips are almost certainly accurately reported. Sure, there's the occasional cash tip, but in my observations, I just don't see currency very often in places that take credit cards. There are the places that don't take cards, and in those places, yeah, probably more under reporting, but I don't see many places like that any more. I wonder if there's a restaurant server forum somewhere where servers anonymously brag about direct pocketing of cash tips. I can't believe there would be no competition in that realm, given the bragging that goes on everywhere else.
 
This discussion is about the amount and appropriateness of gratuities. Wait staff only makes it above minimum wage with the gratuity, so you seem to agree it is indeed needed.

I never suggested tips were unneeded. Quite the contrary.

But to take a similar tack as the one you took, I could say:

"They make DOUBLE the minimum wage, on average, so you seem to agree the tip percentage is excessive."

;)

This keeps coming up, yet is, so far, unsupported. The employee does have an incentive to not report cash gratuities. The employer does have an incentive to fully comply with all reporting requirements. Given the data I’ve cited comes from employers, I lean toward accepting it.

The employer has no way to know about cash tips when the reported tips (via credit card receipts) exceed standard min wage.

Employees receiving cash tips have no incentive to report them, other than personal integrity.

And this cannot be audited by anyone. They are not reported to the employer.

It is a sidebar to the discussion, but it is hard to think of another profession with such potential for underreporting of income.
 
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Having worked in this role, my only response is it’s is not “entry level” and it is also not “minimum training”. It’s a challenging job.

It certainly requires minimal formal training. I have not met anyone yet that went to school to learn to wait tables. I never said it was "entry level". Also did not say it was not challenging. But minimal training does not mean the job is easy. Most people bomb out trying to do it. But many jobs which require minimal training are nonetheless challenging.

Full disclosure: I did it, enjoyed it and made excellent money. I never wished I was making minimum wage nor did I think it was easy.
 
The employer has no way to know about cash tips when the reported tips (via credit card receipts) exceed standard min wage.

Employees receiving cash tips have no incentive to report them, other than personal integrity.

And this cannot be audited by anyone. They are not reported to the employer.

It is a sidebar to the discussion, but it is hard to think of another profession with such potential for underreporting of income.

As I mentioned in post #697, the employer is now required by the IRS to report the server's annual sales on their 1099 or W2 equivalent. CC tips are also posted.

The IRS allows some leeway by a few percent but claiming a net tip income totaling 6% vs sales will almost certainly get you in trouble. IIRC, they expect to see a minimum of 14%, but it may be a bit lower.

The IRS got wise to servers and bartenders underreporting years ago...

Nephew is a bartender and I do his taxes and I see that they report his total sales. OK, it's a crazy sports bar in downtown Boston but he typically makes about $1000 a night.
 
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As I mentioned in post #697, the employer is required to report the server's annual sales on their 1099 or W2 equivalent. The IRS allows some leeway by a few percent but claiming a net tip income totaling 6% will almost certainly get you in trouble.

The IRS got wise to servers and bartenders underreporting years ago...

No disagreement there, but it does not negate my point.

Let's say a server receives 10% of tips in cash and reports none of it. No way for IRS or anyone to know. Especially since this is widespread practice so no one's tips look to be off as a percentage of sales. And such percentages naturally vary from server to server and restaurant to restaurant in all cases.

Again, it is a sidebar. But not other job carries such potential to underreport.

Safe to say any hourly salary figures for wait staff figure to be understated more than other jobs.
 
As I mentioned in post #697, the employer is required to report the server's annual sales on their 1099 or W2 equivalent.

The IRS allows some leeway by a few percent but claiming a net tip income totaling 6% will almost certainly get you in trouble. IIRC, they expect to see a minimum of 14%, but it may be a bit lower.

The IRS got wise to servers and bartenders underreporting years ago...
That won't apply to a small business with less than 10 employees like where I was a waiter. And where it applies, they will just make up the difference to get to 8%, and there are a number of ways they can do this. No one is getting in trouble. People usually just pocket the cash tips.

I was a waiter and definitely would say it's entry level work that really doesn't deserve more than minimum wage, and in this state, the minimum wage of tipped workers is actually HIGHER than the federal minimum wage for non-tipped workers! So tips are just extra gravy on top of that in my state.
 
No disagreement there, but it does not negate my point.

Let's say a server receives 10% of tips in cash and reports none of it. No way for IRS or anyone to know. Especially since this is widespread practice so no one's tips look to be off as a percentage of sales. And such percentages naturally vary from server to server and restaurant to restaurant in all cases.

Again, it is a sidebar. But not other job carries such potential to underreport.

Safe to say any hourly salary figures for wait staff figure to be understated more than other jobs.

If they were interested, the IRS only has to look at total sales vs tips claimed. Claiming "bartender " as your occupation at tax time and 5% in tips vs reported sales, some advanced software would likely hit the red button. Sure there's some room for fudging but the days of claiming less than realistic tips are long gone.

I'm a silent partner in a mid sized family restaurant and know of a least one waitress who got bagged for underreporting.
 
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In California, the minimum wage (no tipped wage) is now $16 (heading to $20). Despite this, it really doesn't impact the tipping that much (depending on what data you believe, see the links below). It does create an issue for restaurant managers/owners, as tips can only be distributed among those involved in serving. Thus, a pay gap disparity grows with workers in the kitchen.

BTW, I have no problems with tipping in traditional services and delivery (esp delivery services). I don't like it for takeout, retail purchases, etc. It really has gotten out of hand with the screens appearing in all locations. I do believe a fair and equitable wage is the best solution, but we are too far gone.

I've seen some conflicting data on which states are the best and worst tippers. In this one, a survey of 100 people per state (for all service workers), California is the best, with over 22%: Link

Interestingly though, the data from transaction shows the opposite: Toast
In this case, California and Washington, two states with the highest minimum tipped wage, are the lowest. Makes me look at the prior survey and think some reporting (and tip shaming) bias is at work.
 
In California, the minimum wage (no tipped wage) is now $16 (heading to $20). Despite this, it really doesn't impact the tipping that much (depending on what data you believe, see the links below). It does create an issue for restaurant managers/owners, as tips can only be distributed among those involved in serving. Thus, a pay gap disparity grows with workers in the kitchen.

BTW, I have no problems with tipping in traditional services and delivery (esp delivery services). I don't like it for takeout, retail purchases, etc. It really has gotten out of hand with the screens appearing in all locations. I do believe a fair and equitable wage is the best solution, but we are too far gone.

I've seen some conflicting data on which states are the best and worst tippers. In this one, a survey of 100 people per state (for all service workers), California is the best, with over 22%: Link

Interestingly though, the data from transaction shows the opposite: Toast
In this case, California and Washington, two states with the highest minimum tipped wage, are the lowest. Makes me look at the prior survey and think some reporting (and tip shaming) bias is at work.

Interesting links, thanks. I suspect payments data (second link) is more reliable than polling numbers.
 
In California, the minimum wage (no tipped wage) is now $16 (heading to $20). Despite this, it really doesn't impact the tipping that much (depending on what data you believe, see the links below). It does create an issue for restaurant managers/owners, as tips can only be distributed among those involved in serving. Thus, a pay gap disparity grows with workers in the kitchen.

I would expect this. Why? Because tipping is not about wage levels. It is about tradition and personal service.

And in the situation you describe, there is no way to fix this disparity and pay servers at market rates because it is a forced result of min wage do-gooding.
 
Dummy me forgot to push the button.

But it is a poorly designed/coded calculator as the sample answer remains there all the time until the button is pushed.

It should erase the answer, via JavaScript as soon as someone changes any value, to prompt a user to click the button to see an answer.

Here's the "official" one from the BLS. It doesn't have that problem.

https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm
 
$5/day if the room was properly cleaned when we arrived. Same for VRBOs, maybe more. If I rent a 2-3 bedroom condo/house, if it is properly cleaned when we arrive, makes our trip much more enjoyable.

We run an Airbnb but it is a whole house with 3 bedrooms and baths. Guest pay a $165 cleaning for per stay so it doesn’t make sense to book for one night. Except that nearby hotels would cost 3x as much for 3 beds.

So guests rarely tip our housekeepers who do a fabulous job by the way but I also pay over scale and give the girls bonus and other benefits

About to take a cruise and there is a required daily gratuity for all staff. How they divvy it up is anyone’s guess but for a 14 day cruise it is pretty substantial and you still tend to tip at bars and for alacarte services
 
We run an Airbnb but it is a whole house with 3 bedrooms and baths. Guest pay a $165 cleaning for per stay so it doesn’t make sense to book for one night. Except that nearby hotels would cost 3x as much for 3 beds.

So guests rarely tip our housekeepers who do a fabulous job by the way but I also pay over scale and give the girls bonus and other benefits

About to take a cruise and there is a required daily gratuity for all staff. How they divvy it up is anyone’s guess but for a 14 day cruise it is pretty substantial and you still tend to tip at bars and for alacarte services

I have to admit I have never thought about tipping for AirBnB or VRBO cleaning (or for hotels for that matter). I guess if I went to the same place on a regular basis I might consider it.
 
I would expect this. Why? Because tipping is not about wage levels. It is about tradition and personal service.

And in the situation you describe, there is no way to fix this disparity and pay servers at market rates because it is a forced result of min wage do-gooding.

Pew Research did an extensive study in August 2023 on tipping: LINK
Although "it depends on the situation" was the most common response, more people felt it was more of an obligation (due to tradition?) than a choice.

(sorry if this link is a repeat -- this thread has been alive for a while)

72% of people are opposed to mandatory service charges, it appears, based on the survey.

Surprisingly (to me), only 19% of people do not always tip in sit-down restaurants. Only 2% tip more than 20%, and just 22% do 20% (this thread is an outlier) Few (7%) always tip for counter service. These responses seem lower than the POS data I linked to earlier as well as the phone survey.
 
Tips and Donations

I have an idea for a step-wise solution to the tipping problem, presuming you think the status quo isn't the optimal compensation scheme imaginable (i.e. you think there IS a problem). This will never happen, but I thought I'd write this down, just because if something like this ever did happen, it would be pretty awesome.

First, recognize that giving a tip is giving money away that you aren't absolutely required to give.* In that regard, it's like making a donation to the livelihood of the server. If it's a donation, is that the best place in the world to be making a donation? People like Will MacAskill have studied this problem and although I'm no expert in the topic, I've come to recognize that supporting charities with causes in the US cost possibly an order of magnitude more per "unit of good" that they do, when compared to causes in other parts of the world. The problem is our brains are wired to feel good about giving, not wired to give in the most effective way, so effective giving to some distant cause doesn't give us the dopamine hit that giving to a local cause would. So that's just a hack at an intro to the AE movement, which is background for the tipping solution I've concocted.

I said in an earlier post that if we flipped a switch, and nobody tipped restaurant servers starting tomorrow, all servers would make at least the state's minimum wage, which is the same or higher than the federal minimum wage. This is because if servers report receiving tips that, added to their base wage, wouldn't add up to the minimum wage, the employer is compelled by law to make up the difference. This doesn't mean that servers would suddenly be compensated fairly; minimum wage is just an arbitrary number. What would happen is employers would have servers saying "unless you pay me what I was making before, I'll go do an easier job". Employers would begin paying a fair wage for the job, and prices on the menu would rise accordingly.

But there is no such switch to flip. That's where the idea to merge the tipping problem and effective altruism comes in. Rather than a switch, it becomes a movement. Just for illustration, let's pick protecting a child from malaria, which costs $7**. Malaria kills 600,000 people annually, mostly kids. The bill comes at the restaurant. It's $56. Your phone has "EATT" app (Effective Altruism Through Tipping)*** installed. The app scans the receipt, which collects the total of the bill, the restaurant name and number, along with the server's name. Say the app has been configured to tip 25% and has calculated an amount of $14 to tip. Earlier, when you installed the app, you gave it your funding source and choice of what cause to support. When you hit "OK" on the $14 to approve it, your screen shows a URL: https://eatt.com/dx5p3, where the last bit is a "tiny URL", that links to your $14 transaction. On the bill, in the tip slot, you write "eatt.com/dx5p3, thanks for preventing two kids from getting malaria!" When the server goes to that page, it will explain to the server that their customer donated on their behalf to saving lives of kids. The outlet and server would be credited, so it would say "Larry J of Waffle House #4321 provided for two malaria injections", or something like that. If this is the first time someone donated on that server's behalf, then there will be an opportunity for Larry J to claim that account to track all giving over time. The restaurant patron wouldn't feel like a cheapskate because they didn't get to keep the tip and, if enough people started doing this, two things would happen. First, restaurants would be forced to pay servers what they're worth, directly, not on the backs of patrons. And second, the most effective charities could be funded better than they are now, and more lives saved. And let's talk about Larry. Since he only worked at Waffle House, it's likely his tips were at or barely above the untipped minimum wage. Under this scenario, the employer would make up the difference and raise the menu prices. But let's also talk about Benjamin, who works at an upscale place and makes twice the untipped minimum wage. When all of his fat tips on $300 meals start going to charity, there's going to be a huge pay cut for him. But he' smart, and he'll demand more pay, or he'll find some other work. The establishment will need to start paying a fair wage for what they're getting, rather than depend on patrons to do it for them. Menu prices will rise, but the absurd custom will be gone.



* Some people will say it's about as compulsory as you can get, to which I tend to agree, but technically, you could not tip and not break the contract between you an the restaurant.

** https://www.givewell.org/charities/top-charities

*** just a fictional name for illustration
 
Seems to me, working at Waffle House, Larry is just barely getting by as it is. Kinda cruel IMO. He can't wait for the boss to fix the inequity -- which might take years--and has limited work skills.

Every new job he goes to, people are taking money from his pocket sending it to a charity and feeling good about it. Meanwhile, his own kids are having cereal for dinner.

At the same time, come tax time Larry's 1099 shows $X in sales and the IRS tells him that he'd better claim 11% in tips of those sales, which he never even received.

"But if everybody did this, things would change quickly" Sure. But we can't even get the members of this forum to agree on a single form of action, let alone the whole country.

Like it or not-- and I'm among those 20% tippers who don't like it--I fear we're stuck with the way it is. Even many of my local restaurants have upped the ante by automatically adding 3% tips for the kitchen staff. As we speak, it's going the wrong way.
 
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In my state, minimum wage for tipped workers is already above the federal minimum wage for all workers. But most people still tip the 20% on top of that.

And the meal prices have already been skyrocketing.
 
If we banned tipping today and Employers did not pay adequately, they would lose a lot of staff.

Today, staff are usually told as part of their hiring conditions that they keep their tips, some in turn tip the other staff. Thus, the employers are encouraged to pay less, and the employee accepts it hoping they will get good tips. As is common with the current tipping model the employer usually always wins, think of the house in a casino.
 
I appreciate Sengsational's attempt at a solution (I wish we could find one) but in addition to the short-term hardship for Larry and his family, it may result in fewer workers- note the use of in-restaurant kiosks, tablet computers at the table, on-line ordering, places that have converted to completely drive-through. In addition, if the menu prices now reflect the full labor cost including previous income received as tips, what incentive do I have to donate an extra $10 here, $20 there to various charities, some of which I don't know? I DO give to charities, in large chunks- but they're ones I know and trust and with values and objectives that are important to me.

Even now, I rarely add $1, $2, or whatever to charities when given the opportunity at the grocery store checkout.
 
He can't wait for the boss to fix the inequity -- which might take years--and has limited work skills.
I don't think he'd need to wait. From what I understand, each paycheck is managed for the hours worked. If tips + base wage doesn't add-up to enough, money is added. I expect this is all automated in chain restaurants, but there might be friction there if Bubba needed to sit down and "do payroll" manually.

What I didn't say is that it would be easy for wait staff. I'm sure they'd be "mad" at customers for donating "their" tip money. If their only skill is waiting tables, and maybe they don't have a car and can only get to a few possible employers, that would be bad. But it seems the current system takes advantage of customers, making them do employee evaluation and compensation, and takes advantage of employees by shrugging off low pay. Getting out of this will have some pain.
 
what incentive do I have to donate an extra $10 here, $20 there to various charities, some of which I don't know? I DO give to charities, in large chunks- but they're ones I know and trust and with values and objectives that are important to me.
I probably wasn't clear in my description of the proposed app. When you set up the app, you pick whatever charity or charities you want to support. You're right, this wouldn't work if the app was locked to one charity, even if it was supposed to be the most "effective"
 
I don't think he'd need to wait. From what I understand, each paycheck is managed for the hours worked. If tips + base wage doesn't add-up to enough, money is added. I expect this is all automated in chain restaurants, but there might be friction there if Bubba needed to sit down and "do payroll" manually.

What I didn't say is that it would be easy for wait staff. I'm sure they'd be "mad" at customers for donating "their" tip money. If their only skill is waiting tables, and maybe they don't have a car and can only get to a few possible employers, that would be bad. But it seems the current system takes advantage of customers, making them do employee evaluation and compensation, and takes advantage of employees by shrugging off low pay. Getting out of this will have some pain.

An interesting idea, sort of works around the issue of lobbying law makers to change the pay structure.

Larry seeing a drop in his pay while all the Rich customers send their money to various charities would be a problem for Larry. I wonder if restaurants have to ensure the wages meet minimum wage on a weekly, bi-weekly, monthly, or annual basis ?
Larry could be waiting for some time while earning $2.40/hr

One other issue I have with forced donation (and this is not forced donation).
Subaru does this, they say if you buy a car they will donate $300 to some charity. Then they take credit in other adds for being the largest donor.. I say lower the car cost by $300 so I can get the credit (social, emotional, and tax-wise) for the donation.

Who gets the donation credit for Larry's tip ?
 
I tip generously in a traditional sit-down restaurant and for the very-occasionally used food delivery situation. Beyond that, I tend to avoid tipping, certainly in a retail or carry-out transaction. What I don't like about the tipping wait-staff in general is that federally, the employer can reduce their hourly pay based on the minimum wage. For a fictional example, if the minimum wage is $10/hr, the employee works an 8hr shift, they earned $80 as far as the minimum wage is concerned. However, if that server earned $60 in tips, the employer includes that tip in the employee's pay and actually pays the employee: ($80 (minimum) minus $60(tips)) / 8hr-shift. IOW the employer actually pays the employee $20/8 hrs or $2.50/hr. That is not right IMO. Minimum wage should be just that. A minimum that the employer pays. Tips should not reduce the employer's responsibility to pay the employee their wage not the customer. The sooner we eliminate this pay-loophole or even the tipping practice in whole, the better IMO.


If you are not familiar with this minimum pay loophole, look up "tip offset".
 
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