Suspending Sales? Wow!

W2R said:
The Smartkey is wonderful - - no more fumbling for keys with my hands full.
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But, if your Toyota decides to race the world, can you find the Smartkey and throw it out the window? If that doesn't help you, it will help some of the people claiming an inability to stop.
 
kumquat said:
But, if your Toyota decides to race the world, can you find the Smartkey and throw it out the window? If that doesn't help you, it will help some of the people claiming an inability to stop.
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Would you really want to turn off the engine, when you would lose power steering? Each to his/her own, I suppose, but I didn't even do that when my Dodge van's accelerator got stuck badly almost 30 years ago.

But if that is what one is bound and determined to do in such an event, no biggie. If you push and hold the on/off button, the engine will stop even while the car is in motion without involving the Smartkey. That sure wouldn't be my first course of action, though. Not even my second course of action. :rolleyes:

Now it would be sensible to be completely freaked out about that Dodge van accelerating uncontrollably. It did it once and no repairs, recalls, or fixes were ever done on it. Nobody gave a darn about it. Nobody figured out why it happened or even cared. My ex chewed me out for the way that I stopped it because it COULD have damaged the transmission, even though it didn't. He doubly chewed me out for not wanting to drive it ever again. Times have sure changed! :LOL:
 
NW-Bound, were I you I would look at the used market.

Depreciation in RVs is even worse than in cars & trucks.
 
W2R said:
snip

If you push and hold the on/off button, the engine will stop even while the car is in motion without involving the Smartkey.

snip
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That's not for me. Noooo way! I think this "On/Off" pushbutton idea is a really bad one. The "switch" is really now just a sensor that the engine control computer reads. If something goes wrong with the "switch", or if there is a computer problem/glitch, everything will keep working. That "On/Off" switch is NOT a power switch!

Contrast that with the sensible usual method of a regular ignition switch on the column. It really is a power switch, with multiple circuits running through it. True, some of the circuits through it provide power to a relay's coil for increased power handling, and the relay's contacts then provide the real power, so theoretically a relay with welded contacts could keep powering a circuit. But the multiplicity of circuits that are needed to keep the engine running like electric fuel pump, ignition, computer main power feed, injector power, etc. means that if one of those stays on when it shouldn't, the correct loss of the others will still kill the engine.

Could you imagine a house or building main electrical disconnect switch (like your breaker boxes' "main breaker") that instead of being a big high-current switch, was instead a little puny switch or sensor that was polled or generated an interrupt to a "power box computer" that actually disconnected the power?

Bzzzzzzt! Whoops, there goes another electrician... hey that's the third one today! :nonono:
 
Any truth to the rumor that things are so bad at Toyota, that the 1959 Toyopet is being recalled for unintended acceleration? That one was seen actually making it across an intersection in less than three changes of the lights? :D
 
W2R said:
Would you really want to turn off the engine, when you would lose power steering?
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Please tell me you are kidding. Would you rather that the car ran at full speed (with nothing you can do) than have to use a few muscles? If the stories of "unintended acceleration" are true, a person could have used the brakes, the ignition switch or the transmission to slow it down. I doubt that they even knew that they would lose power steering if they shut it off.
Please shut it off if it happens to you. You may be a delicate southern belle, but you'll be just as dead as a Montana cowgirl if you won't do something reasonable.
 
Telly said:
Any truth to the rumor that things are so bad at Toyota, that the 1959 Toyopet is being recalled for unintended acceleration? That one was seen actually making it across an intersection in less than three changes of the lights? :D
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Maybe Ford will recall the 65 Galaxy. The damn thing almost killed me when I stomped it to pass a truck. Throttle was locked wide open. I wonder why I survived. I'd tell you, but you'd probably think I was just too stupid to die, so it matters not.
 
kumquat said:
Please shut it off if it happens to you. You may be a delicate southern belle, but you'll be just as dead as a Montana cowgirl if you won't do something reasonable.
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IF? This HAS happened to me before, with a Dodge van, just as it has happened to a number of others on this message board who have reported their experiences in various threads today and just as it happened to you with your Ford Galaxy. And yes, I wonder when they will recall the Ford Galaxy and the Dodge B200 van? :LOL: Nobody ever asked me to testify before Congress, either. :D

I was able to handle it without shutting off the engine at 90 mph and losing my power steering right off the bat, on the curvy two lane road on which it happened. That is a last resort IMO.

:greetings10:
 
Brat said:
NW-Bound, were I you I would look at the used market.
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Yes, as I said in my earlier post, that is what I am doing.

I do not want to spend too much on an RV right now for 2 reasons. Firstly, I have already splurged on a 2nd home, and one must learn to exercise self-control. Secondly, I am not sure if this RV'ing will become a lasting leisure activity for me. We have all seen people with RVs or boats sitting unused by the side of their house after using them once or twice.

I most likely will get a used gas, meaning not a more expensive diesel, class C. Should be enough for us to cut our teeth on.

Anyway, when I asked a salesman about what would be good for a beginner, he said "a pop-up camper trailer". You can tell that this younger guy was a novice salesman, which he surely looked like. Or perhaps he had a surplus of those that he needed to get rid off. :D I replied that we were thinking of going where it rained a lot, and needed hard walls. :LOL:

A note: I understand perfectly why people want a new RV, particularly if it is going to be their real home. Why, my 2nd home was also new and cost us a bundle.

Inside every LBYM'er, there is a spender that wants to get out. Heh heh heh ...
 
I just read the above story about a Minnesota man who rammed his car into another, killing 3 persons. He claimed he was innocent and was braking as hard as he could, and did not stomp on the gas pedal instead of the brake. No one believed him, and he is now languishing in jail.

I was thinking about a similar scenario yesterday. Imagine your car is crawling at 15mph in a school zone. You see children crossing, and prepare to stop.

Suppose, just suppose your car suddenly accelerates. Sure, maybe you can press and hold the Engine Stop button for 3 seconds. Sure, you can try to wiggle that joystick to shift to neutral. Sure, you can remember to put both of your feet on the brake instead of the gas. Sure, sure. :rolleyes:

If this "sudden acceleration" is real, it has more implications than just about "stupid drivers" who got blamed for not knowing how to drive.
 
NW-Bound said:
I just read the above story about a Minnesota man who rammed his car into another, killing 3 persons. He claimed he was innocent and was braking as hard as he could, and did not stomp on the gas pedal instead of the brake. No one believed him, and he is now languishing in jail.
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Of course, if his pedal "stuck" right as he was heading toward the ex-boss who recently fired him, or toward the guy who was sleeping with his wife, or.....
 
I think that driving without power steering is not a problem except at very low speeds.
 
Toyota has a real problem here. They cannot state in testimony that the problem is absolutely not electronic/software because there is no way to prove that. It is sort of like proving a negative, but much worse.

If a system's output depends only on its present input, then you can test every combination of inputs and be sure that your design works properly in all cases. The problem comes in when your system has memory. Then you have to test every possible sequence of inputs, and it doesn't take much memory to make that essentially impossible. There is a whole field of applied mathematics devoted to this called logic verification.

Many moons ago I was working for a chip maker when smog emission regulations prompted the switch from carburetors to computer controlled fuel injection. Delco sent a VP to read us the riot act about verifying designs. He said that their worst nightmare was a school bus full of kids stalled on a railroad track because the driver happened to hit the brakes right after accelerating hard, and hit the left turn signal and the headlight dimmer at the same time.

The point is that oddball combinations or sequences of inputs is where errors in logic design lurk.

Actually, it was the auto companies (and the military) that drove progress in the field of logic verification. A design error that stalls a car or sends a missile off course is a lot more serious than crashing your pong game.

Chip makers and auto companies spend enormous amounts of engineering effort on the verification problem, but still, nobody can say for certain that there isn't some sequence of events somewhere that causes the system to lose its little electronic mind.
 
IndependentlyPoor said:
...........:er:..................
Chip makers and auto companies spend enormous amounts of engineering effort on the verification problem, but still, nobody can say for certain that there isn't some sequence of events somewhere that causes the system to lose its little electronic mind.
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When I worked for MegaMotors, every prototype vehicle had a big red button the instrument panel that locked on when pushed. This button shut down the engine, now! Hey, I think I see a new option idea!
 
W2R said:
My ex chewed me out for the way that I stopped it because it COULD have damaged the transmission, even though it didn't. He doubly chewed me out for not wanting to drive it ever again. Times have sure changed! :LOL:
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I can definitely understand why he is your EX!
 
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Has anyone seen the new Toyota adds ? I've seen a few and they are pathetic attempts at winning back customers . I have an almost eleven year old Toyota and love it but these adds make me want to run into any dealership but Toyota .
 
kumquat said:
Please tell me you are kidding. Would you rather that the car ran at full speed (with nothing you can do) than have to use a few muscles? If the stories of "unintended acceleration" are true, a person could have used the brakes, the ignition switch or the transmission to slow it down. I doubt that they even knew that they would lose power steering if they shut it off.
Please shut it off if it happens to you. You may be a delicate southern belle, but you'll be just as dead as a Montana cowgirl if you won't do something reasonable.
Click to expand...

I was one that was in the 'use the brakes' or 'turn off the car' crowd... but it seems that this does not work either...

First, there was a lady who testified she had the sudden acceleration in her Lexus... she used the brakes, but did not stop... she down shifted, nothing... into neutral, nothing.. INTO REVERSE... nothing... she tried to turn the car off... nothing... and the car did not have an 'code' that anything went wrong..

Second, they showed some professor who would short circuit the system which Toyota claimed would produce a code... the test driver said the brakes would not slow down the car... and they showed that there was no code in the system. They said Toyota is now interested in seeing the guys research...

I wonder who else can have these problems....
 
Texas Proud said:
Second, they showed some professor who would short circuit the system which Toyota claimed would produce a code... the test driver said the brakes would not slow down the car... and they showed that there was no code in the system. They said Toyota is now interested in seeing the guys research...

I wonder who else can have these problems....
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I have to wonder that, too. All modern cars are so computerized; it's scary.
 
Texas Proud said:
Second, they showed some professor who would short circuit the system which Toyota claimed would produce a code... the test driver said the brakes would not slow down the car... and they showed that there was no code in the system. They said Toyota is now interested in seeing the guys research...

I wonder who else can have these problems....
Click to expand...

To be a tad more accurate:

The prof shorted the two independent pedal position sensor's outputs together. No error code. Then he connected these two shorted sensors' outputs to one of the independent power supplies for the sensors. Still no error code, but the throttle instantly opened fully, allowing maximum engine speed. Still no error code. The prof found this repeatable and on several different Toyota models.

Based on the prof's info, clearly Toyota missed some error trapping opportunities.

It is now up to Toyota to show why no error code, and if this condition can happen in real life, without some professor probing around.

Food for thought.

And as the old Ginzu knife commercial said, there is more.
 
SarahW said:
I have to wonder that, too. All modern cars are so computerized; it's scary.
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I agree--I don't have a Toyota but who's to say my cars don't have some equivalent bugs in their computerized systems?

The inability to manually override some of the car's functions reminds me of problems that I vaguely remember with the first manned spacecraft being controlled by the NASA people on the ground and not the astronauts.
 
Dreamer said:
I heard today that the Toyota 2009-2010 Venza is now on the list of recalled vehicles. I believe that is the car that W2R just bought. You need to go to Toyota's site and put your VIN in to see if your vehicle is recalled. Hopefully, W2R's car is not recalled because she has the special floor mats. Anyway, be safe W2R and all other Toyota car drivers.
Click to expand...

And this is why the Venza has been recalled....

Toyota owner says automakers can't be trusted
 
Re: My 2007 Toyota Tacoma

I have been impatiently waiting for my notification from Toyota by mail or email of: first, the recall and second, a notice to bring it in for a fix. Last Wednesday, I tried to make an appointment on line with my dealer requesting a fix for the recall. I had no hope of them responding other than something in writing that said they didn't have a solution yet.
A couple hours after I sent the email, I received a phone call asking me when I wanted to bring it in for a "sticky accelerator" repair. (My previous reading of the problem for my model, plugging in my VIN number, suggested no such thing. Just to pull the floor mat and wait till they found a way to get it fixed. Nails or screws or glue or something, I guessed.)

Anyway, I should have it either fixed by Monday evening. I'll post. I have thoughts about the culturally ignorant dodoes I watched lambasting the Toyota's president Toyoda Thursday that I'd like to share.
 
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