24 year old trying to get to millionaire by 35, punch holes in me plan

[brewer12345]

Look my argument was basically this, Brinker, and Cramer for that matter, eat sleep and breath stocks, and thus would know more than a person with a normal job, who doesn't focus 100% of their energy on the market. Maybe some of you are that involved with the market and know all of its idiosyncracies. I for one certainly do not, so in that case I defer to someone who does. If people on here know more than Cramer or Brinker good for you, you should start your own newsletter and become multi multi millionaires if it's that easy

You might wish to be a tad more polite. There are several very seasoned investment professionals posting here that have a much better track record than either of the two clowns you mention.

 

[AirJordan]

100k a year out of law school? you must have gone to a pretty low caliber law school. nothing to brag about there. your ego astounds me.

Welll sorrryyyy I didn't go to Harvard, I only went to lowly Tulane because they gave me a full ride. You really must know nothing about being any kind of professional if you think that making 100k, first year out of law school is nothing. Most people have to start clerking for a DA, or the such and make 40k or less 1 year out. Yipes, somebody has got an inferiority complex. Sorry your life has made you so bitter NYL :

 

[unclemick]

Hmmm - first cup of coffee this morning, I see we're still going strong, Great!

You know now that it doesn't cost five bucks - the Vanguard Diehard 'free' spin off (due to that H guy we won't mention) had a 'Forgive me Father for I have sinned thread' on active funds wherein us indexers could confess our sins.

On with Ford vs Chevy, Yo Mama wears combat boots - so who is skins and who shirts?

You historians out there know there is a valuable collectors item - the famous Index Funds are Un-American Poster/Ad that came out when Bogle rolled out the first generally availible index fund.

Go team go.

heh heh heh heh

P.S. I moved to high ground after Katrina(Missouri) - So how's the Green Wave gonna do with the new coach?

 

[brewer12345]

Wait, wait, I've got it: Air Jordan is the reincarnation of Azanon!

[MODERATOR EDIT]

 

[donheff]

Welll sorrryyyy I didn't go to Harvard, I only went to lowly Tulane because they gave me a full ride. You really must know nothing about being any kind of professional if you think that making 100k, first year out of law school is nothing. Most people have to start clerking for a DA, or the such and make 40k or less 1 year out. Yipes, somebody has got an inferiority complex. Sorry your life has made you so bitter NYL :

AJ, you are fun. Don't you realize that we are tweaking you because you so gleefully insulted us? Talk about thin skinned, and an inferiority complex - read your post. If you were really self confident you wouldn't react like the above to people like NYLady dissing you for your 2nd tier performance.

OF COURSE $100K FIRST YEAR OUT IS GOOD!!! Anyone with an ounce of self confidence would not have to defend it or spout off about it. But, if you are going to be an arrogant dhead and brag about what a smart guy you are people will start dragging out yardsticks to beat you back with -- here and at work.

 

[FinanceDude]

This is just argument is so incredibly myopic and inane that I don't even know where to start. DID YOU EVEN LOOK AT THE AVERAGE FOR 15 YEARS I guarantee you that Bill Miller is waaaay ahead of the SPX. How is that index treating you this year guys? I'm up 1.2% (S&P down -.5%) on the year, up 20.5% (S&P up 15%) for last year, oh noeesss!1!!! How is your precious SPX doing? Honestly for some people who claim to be so knowledgable, any two bit geek knows that the VTSMX will out perform your precious VFINX, AND THIS IS COMING FROM Bogle himself. I've read all the aforementioned books, also one by Malkiel, which is better than anything you mentioned.

Keep going with your haystacking, and keep getting slaughtered by actively managed funds. Seriously, when another bear market comes, what then? You'll still be fully invested while active managers will be hoarding there money waiting for the next steal. Back to the M*Star forums where people are at least a bit more open-minded, and astute.

Ok, "counselor"..........take a deep breath. Keep the "lawyer-ese" in the courtroom, this an online chatroom...............

 

[FinanceDude]

Here's the problem, you all claim to be indexers but yet some of you are up 1.0% - 1.6% YTD which is pretty much impossible for indexers to be this year. VIVAX, VFINX, VWO, all the funds you are touting are down 1-2% this year, yet you all claim to be up. Something has to give here...

This is getting fun............. Hammering the indexers on THIS BOARD is...well............not very smart...........

But what do I know, I just manage money for a living.............

 

[AirJordan]

This is getting fun............. Hammering the indexers on THIS BOARD is...well............not very smart...........

But what do I know, I just manage money for a living.............

Well Finance dude, I envy you in a way, if all you are feeding your clients is the coffeehouse portfolio, and you're getting rich off of it then good for you. Maybe I should start AirJordan's financial planning service.

30% VTSMX - Total Stock Market
10% VISVX - Small Cap Value
10% VGSIX - REIT
20% VGTSX - Total International
10% VIVAX - Large Value
20% VBMFX - Total Bond

Tadaaaaa, now you're doing better than 90% of all financial planning crooks.

But seriously, FinanceDude, you seem like one of the good ones, and that you truly care about your clients, so my hats off to you. Waay too many snake-oil salesmen in your profession

 

[FinanceDude]

Well Finance dude, I envy you in a way, if all you are feeding your clients is the coffeehouse portfolio, and you're getting rich off of it then good for you. Maybe I should start AirJordan's financial planning service.

30% VTSMX - Total Stock Market
10% VISVX - Small Cap Value
10% VGSIX - REIT
20% VGTSX - Total International
10% VIVAX - Large Value
20% VBMFX - Total Bond

Tadaaaaa, now you're doing better than 90% of all financial planning crooks.

But seriously, FinanceDude, you seem like one of the good ones, and that you truly care about your clients, so my hats off to you. Waay too many snake-oil salesmen in your profession

Um ok..............I'll take that as a compliment............I think. As a sort of confession, I have some money at Vanguard, but the majority of my money is in actively managed fiunds with Dodge and Cox, American Funds, and ING, and some stocks. A perk of my job is that I can buy load funds with no load, something the average Joe can't................gotta have some perks though.........

For my clients, I run a fee-based practice, using portfolios I design and monitor myself. Fact is, I am on here to learn, not advise others. And truth be told, most of them don't want my advice anyways...........

To each their own.........to me, indexing is "giving up" and buying the whole market. For those who don't live and breathe the market everyday, it's a perfect thing to do. I guess I like a "little more danger" than the average guy.

I also have a weakness every since I once made 486% in a stock I held for only a year.............looking for another one like that...............

 

[lswswein]

30% VTSMX - Total Stock Market
10% VISVX - Small Cap Value
10% VGSIX - REIT
20% VGTSX - Total International
10% VIVAX - Large Value
20% VBMFX - Total Bond

AirJordan, now for the big question. Why do you think your portfolio in the first post is better than what you came up with here? Accounting for all the allocation skews by the active mgmt, if you can construct a similarly weighted portfolio with Index funds the performace might be similar but the Expenses will be guarenteed to be lower by atleast 2X. All that people here are trying to tell you is don't commit yourself to high Expenses.

SO prove it to us that all that active mgmt is doing something other than the Managers yatchs!

-h

 

[Enuff2Eat]

AJ,

you seems somewhat immature,and arrogant but i like your confident style. You're the kind of guy that everyone "love to hate". i believe you will a miilionaire sooner than you think but just be careful on your behavior because being a millionaire but no friends and everyone hate you is NO fun.

enuff2eat

 

[unclemick]

I also have a weakness every since I once made 486% in a stock I held for only a year.............looking for another one like that...............

1969 - Hyatt Hotels(stock) if memory serves - got a year of Penthouse living, new rag top Datsun 2000 roadster, nice resturants, etc., etc - I was 24 once myself.

If your male and above ground - I keep telling ya folks - it's da hormones and it's incurable - hobby stocks or kayaks one or the other!

heh heh heh - and I'm only kidding a little! 8) 8) 8) 8)

 

[TromboneAl]

I'm not Alan Greenspan, stop saying that. Just a sec -- What, again, Andrea?? But we just did it ten minutes ago!

 

[FinanceDude]

1969 - Hyatt Hotels(stock) if memory serves - got a year of Penthouse living, new rag top Datsun 2000 roadster, nice resturants, etc., etc - I was 24 once myself.

If your male and above ground - I keep telling ya folks - it's da hormones and it's incurable - hobby stocks or kayaks one or the other!

heh heh heh - and I'm only kidding a little! 8) 8) 8) 8)

I think it's the testosterone.............P&G is nice to own (I do), but riding the bronco that was Krispy Kreme for a time was fun............

 

[AirJordan]

Um ok..............I'll take that as a compliment............I think. As a sort of confession, I have some money at Vanguard, but the majority of my money is in actively managed fiunds with Dodge and Cox, American Funds, and ING, and some stocks. A perk of my job is that I can buy load funds with no load, something the average Joe can't................gotta have some perks though.........

For my clients, I run a fee-based practice, using portfolios I design and monitor myself. Fact is, I am on here to learn, not advise others. And truth be told, most of them don't want my advice anyways...........

To each their own.........to me, indexing is "giving up" and buying the whole market. For those who don't live and breathe the market everyday, it's a perfect thing to do. I guess I like a "little more danger" than the average guy.

I also have a weakness every since I once made 486% in a stock I held for only a year.............looking for another one like that...............

I like your style FinanceDude, I really do, and I completely agree that indexing is giving up. For the person who doesn't want to put forth any effort into investigating stocks, or the market, and just wants to rebalance twice a year it is the way to go. But from the tone of people around this message board, it seems like a lot of people claim to know a ton (and maybe they do, who knows), and yet they are happy to settle for slightly above average returns.

I'm a gambler by heart, played online poker to pay off all of my college loans, and certainly trust myself enough to know that funds like D&C, Fairholme, Third Avenue, will beat the markets. I mean what's the point of even learning anything about the market if all you are going to do is index?

If I wasn't such a brash young punk FinanceDude, you seem like the type of advisor who I'd be happy giving my money to, but stirring up drama on message boards, and trying to beat the indexes with my own portfolio is just too much fun

 

[FinanceDude]

I'm not Alan Greenspan, stop saying that. Just a sec -- What, again, Andrea?? But we just did it ten minutes ago!

You're too YOUNG to be Alan Greenspan...............unless that's not REALLY your photo................

"Trombone Al Greenspan".......got a nice ring to it...........

 

[newyorklady]

Welll sorrryyyy I didn't go to Harvard, I only went to lowly Tulane because they gave me a full ride. You really must know nothing about being any kind of professional if you think that making 100k, first year out of law school is nothing. Most people have to start clerking for a DA, or the such and make 40k or less 1 year out. Yipes, somebody has got an inferiority complex. Sorry your life has made you so bitter NYL :

yes, i am so bitter that i am a multi-millionaire. booh hoo. i cry myself to sleep every night. i just don't like your atttitude and if you are a wunderkind or whatever it is you think you are don't you think you would know what manners are. and i went to law school, one of the very top ones and starting salary is substantially higher than 100k. this may seem like a lot to some people, but when you go to a top law school it really isn't.

 

[brewer12345]

I'm a gambler by heart, played online poker to pay off all of my college loans, and certainly trust myself enough to know that funds like D&C, Fairholme, Third Avenue, will beat the markets. I mean what's the point of even learning anything about the market if all you are going to do is index?

Smart guy, some of us consider even using a managed fund to be giving up.

 

[FinanceDude]

Smart guy, some of us consider even using a managed fund to be giving up.

Yeah, but you read more 8K's in a week than most folks read in a lifetime.........

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

yes, i am so bitter that i am a multi-millionaire. booh hoo. i cry myself to sleep every night. i just don't like your atttitude and if you are a wunderkind or whatever it is you think you are don't you think you would know what manners are. and i went to law school, one of the very top ones and starting salary is substantially higher than 100k. this may seem like a lot to some people, but when you go to a top law school it really isn't.

Agreed. I know quite a few folks who, straight out of law school, clear $160k a year. That's the going rate for top law school graduates. $100k is the starting salary for regional firms in third and fourth-tier markets.

 

[AirJordan]

Smart guy, some of us consider even using a managed fund to be giving up.

Riiiighhhhhhtttttt, any chump can put money in some index fund, with an allocation like I mentioned, but it takes skill to truly beat the market. Putting money in an index fund is conceding that you can't beat the market, hence giving up, PERIOD.

 

[ERD50]

I mean what's the point of even learning anything about the market if all you are going to do is index?

Let me try to phrase that question a bit different. Just maybe, learning about the market has taught some people that indexing *is* the best strategy.

How do you identify, out of thousands of mutual funds, which ones might outperform in the future? How do you decide when they should be replaced? After they underperform for a period of time (whoops!)? I think those questions need to be answered before you can make any statement that you can put together a group of actively managed funds that will outperform their indexes over time.

I just can't see it. Indexes may beat 75% of funds, but the ones I list are all top 5% with tenured management.

All well and good, but what does it mean? That they performed well over the past 5 years or so? Does that mean they will outperform over the next 5 years? That might be a bigger question than you realize.

There are academic studies that show the consistent winners in stock investments are portfolios made up of stocks that *underperformed* in the previous time period. Hmmmm.

I completely agree that indexing is giving up.

Well, if the data indicates that indexing is consistently better in the long run, I would not call it 'giving up', I would call it a 'realization'. When I was a kid, I stopped trying to invent perpetual energy machines once I learned the laws of physics. Is that 'giving up' or a 'realization'?

-ERD50

 

[brewer12345]

Riiiighhhhhhtttttt, any chump can put money in some index fund, with an allocation like I mentioned, but it takes skill to truly beat the market. Putting money in an index fund is conceding that you can't beat the market, hence giving up, PERIOD.

That one went right over your head, eh?

Index funds = 0% of my portfolio. Managed funds = 0% of my portfolio.

 

[soupcxan]

Smart guy, some of us consider even using a managed fund to be giving up.

Buying stocks of any kind is "giving up." If you are a REAL MAN [tm] then you create your own equity by starting your own company.

 

[eridanus]

(I imagine brewer has his money in derivatives and hedge funds.)

I call troll on AirJordan.