A Serious $%#@ Gripe About the IRS and Related Company

[TriumphTR3fan]

How?

Since this appears to have been handed to a 3rd party collection agency, they will continue to contact what they think is the debtor. There’s a high likelihood that they will assume they are hearing just another excuse. It’s not a lot of money but they will not stop. It just adds unneeded stress. They get paid based on results. They don’t have the authority to cancel the debt. That’s the responsibility of the IRS.

 

[Sunset]

Seems like the IRS and conserve have broken their own rules:

They should have sent letters saying the case was going to collections.
They don't do it for deceased people.

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/private-debt-collection

See: "How it works"

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/private-debt-collection-accounts-assigned-to-private-collection-agencies

See: "Accounts Excluded from Collection with Private Collection Agencies

IRS will exclude accounts from collection with private collection agencies involving taxpayers who are:

Deceased"

 

[pb4uski]

Late last year (Oct), my MIL received a letter from the IRS that one of the quarterly tax payments for her employee (care giver) was missing (quarter #2). We checked the statements and did, indeed, make that payment. The IRS deposited it.
Wrote a letter to the IRS in November, 2022, with copy of the check, front and back, dates of deposit, etc. And waited.
MIL passed away in April of 2023. DW (daughter) is named Executor. In July of this year we receive a collections letter from ConServe, the collection agency for the IRS, stating we did not make a quarterly payment, blah, blah, blah.
Wrote another letter (to ConServe) with all of the original documentation plus MIL death certificate and court papers showing daughter as Executor. Mailed it off in July.
Now September. Nothing. DW calls, explains who she is and why she is calling. Gets, "I can't talk to you". Wife explains that as Executor, it is her responsibility to take care of her mother's debts. "I can't talk to you". "I can't talk to you". Wife tries again...."mom is dead, I am Executor, trying to settle her estate".
"I can't talk to you".
Holy hell, you wonder why people hate dealing with the US Government.

I don't see a problem at all. Until or unless you hear back from ConServe then I think it is reasonable for you to assume that the letter that your DW sent them in July with all of the original documentation plus MIL death certificate was satisfactory. If it wasn' then ConServe will contact her. Just keep all documentation.

From Bard:

is there any way to look at what payments ther IRS has received from me?

Yes, there are a few ways to see what payments the IRS has received from you.

• Check your IRS online account. If you have an IRS online account, you can view your payment history for the past 5 years. To create an account, go to the IRS website: https://www.irs.gov/payments/your-online-account and click on "Create an Account."
• Request an account transcript. You can request an account transcript from the IRS by mail. This will show all of your account activity for a specific tax year, including payments received. To request a transcript, go to the IRS website: https://www.irs.gov/forms-pubs/about-form-4506 and download Form 4506-T. Complete the form and mail it to the address on the form.
• Call the IRS. You can also call the IRS at 1-800-829-1040 to inquire about your payment history. However, wait times to speak to a representative may be long.

If you are looking to see if the IRS has received a specific payment, such as an estimated tax payment or a tax refund, you can also check the status of your payment using the IRS Get My Payment tool: https://www.irs.gov/coronavirus/get-my-payment. However, this tool is only available for certain types of payments.

 

[Montecfo]

As a lawyer, I would not bring a case with evidence of payment having been submitted not once, but twice to the alleged creditor. And if payment was made and evidence exists showing payment, then any such case will not last long in court even if it is brought. Yes, this involves a court and all that entails, but if you have actually paid, you will win. And if it is the debt collector bringing the case rather than the IRS itself, you will not only win, but also get your attorney's fees and statutory damages. It is a violation of the FDCPA to try to collect a debt that is not owed.

Staying out of court is perhaps a better strategy.

 

[Gumby]

Since this appears to have been handed to a 3rd party collection agency, they will continue to contact what they think is the debtor. There’s a high likelihood that they will assume they are hearing just another excuse. It’s not a lot of money but they will not stop. It just adds unneeded stress. They get paid based on results. They don’t have the authority to cancel the debt. That’s the responsibility of the IRS.

Under the FDCPA, if you demand that they stop contacting you, then they MUST stop contacting you. Their only choice at that point is to sue you or drop the matter. That's it.

 

[Aerides]

I would probably do one more letter with all the prior documentation, and send it certified so you have proof of receipt, and then be done with it (and maybe CC the congress person and the Do Not Contact approaches as well).

 

[jldavid47]

If the collection agency keeps bothering you, give them the address of the cemetery and tell them they can collect from the deceased there.

 

[JoeWras]

Sister-in-law (SIL could be son or sis!) did that with MIL when MIL had dementia. Then one time they asked security questions - where were you married? She guessed wrong, then guessed wrong again, then the rep let her guess again and she got it right. I'm surprised they let her try three times. I guess that acting like a really old lady helped!

Thank goodness I'm not the only one!

I have the same name as my Dad, so with Dad's permission, I'd call and gruff my voice and declare my name. Of course, I had to cheat a bit on the birth date. I could guess his security questions pretty easily. It was usually "Olive Garden."

It was pretty handy helping dad. It was also disturbing how easy it was. This was 12 years ago.

One thing that didn't work was calling the Social Security dept. I think they asked me to declare my full name or something. I just couldn't cheat, so I had dad call with me listening and coaching.

They asked Dad his previous address of residence. Instead of giving the address from 1957-1995, he gave the address from 1949-1956. Duh-oh! That was it, call was done. We had to try again and got it the second time, with a different call, and another hour wait.

 

[TriumphTR3fan]

Under the FDCPA, if you demand that they stop contacting you, then they MUST stop contacting you. Their only choice at that point is to sue you or drop the matter. That's it.

Thanks Gumby I appreciate the information. I also liked jldavid47 advice .[emoji3] [emoji106]

 

[jazz4cash]

My dad died in the 70’s when I was a teen so I received SS dependent benefit of $103/mo. When I got to college I was only entitled Sept to May because my summer job income made me ineligible. It was a circus with SS getting the payments stopped and started on time. They claimed I was overpaid $250. I could not prove I did not get the money. They hounded me off and on for 40 years. I mostly ignored the letters. Around 2018 IRS reduced my refund to settle the “overpayment”. No penalties were ever assessed. Around 2020 I get a letter explaining it was illegal for IRS to collect for SS. I called the number to verify my mailing address. The CSR said they would issue a refund BUT I STILL OWED THE $. I explained my side and they waived it. Just. Like. That. After 40 yrs.

 

[Koolau]

Actually sounds about right to me.

Collection agencies - even more than the IRS - want your payments, not your explanations.

 

[Koolau]

Since your MIL is deceased, do you have to do anything? Is it a significant sum? It seems like the executor has fulfilled their duty.

Some drug plan said my mom owed them money and contacted me about collecting her debt. She had been gone for several months. They threatened to turn ME into a collection agency since I had been her POA (which expired upon her death.) I told them I really needed the money I would collect from them if they did so. I never heard another peep.

 

[Koolau]

To answer a couple of questions; the amount was about $1300 and had several hundred $ more in interest and penalties. The estate is responsible for the debt (although there isn't one). The IRS could go after the estate for the taxes and penalties. Will they? Who knows.
Regarding my wife calling and pretending to be her mom:
DW: "Hi, this is so-and-so"
CSR: Hello Mrs. so-and-so. We received your death certificate from your daughter many months ago"
DW: "well, i got better"
Monty Python music ensues

I was expecting the response to be "How can I help you today, Mrs. so-and-so." Most of those companies follow a script and that would have been a likely next question by the company.

 

[Koolau]

I'm surprised the IRS turned this claim over to a collection agency seeing the IRS IS a collection agency. When I was battling the IRS on a tax filing they lost of mine (my business), they pounded me monthly for the alleged $15 + K owed, which I did not owe. It only took 3.5 years to straighten this out.

I framed the apology letter the IRS eventually sent me and it's hanging in my office.

Surprised they sent you one. Cudos to them!

IRS sent us a letter saying we hadn't paid on something. We provided the documentation showing we had - that's the last we heard.

 

[aja8888]

Surprised they sent you one. Cudos to them!

IRS sent us a letter saying we hadn't paid on something. We provided the documentation showing we had - that's the last we heard.

I couldn't believe they sent me the apology letter. Maybe they felt bad seeing I must have filled one of their rooms with letters and documents for 3.5 years, which I am sure, never got read.

I do have the thing framed and on my office wall!

 

[EastWest Gal]

Have you thought about gathering all the documentation and making an appointment with a local IRS office? That way you don’t have to worry about documentation getting lost, etc.

The IRS made a mistake turning over the account to a collection agency. Accounts of deceased persons are excluded from being turned over to a private collection agency, per the IRS website. The onus is on the IRS to fix it. If you make an in person appointment, the problem can be resolved more quickly, and with less animosity.

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/smal...ounts-assigned-to-private-collection-agencies

Tell the collection agency in writing that you cannot legally work with them because the taxpayer is deceased and they cannot legally be involved in the case.

 

[Sunset]

Call the news outlets: " Gov't running out of money and now taxing dead people "

Would be a great headliner

 

[Koolau]

I couldn't believe they sent me the apology letter. Maybe they felt bad seeing I must have filled one of their rooms with letters and documents for 3.5 years, which I am sure, never got read.

I do have the thing framed and on my office wall!

I wonder if that letter is worth some money? It's gotta be rarer than a Picasso (and worth more - to you!)

 

[ncbill]

Collection agencies - even more than the IRS - want your payments, not your explanations.

And people in Hell want ice water...

Look, I've NEVER paid a dime to any collection agency that has contacted me.

The first thing to send them is a letter demanding proof of debt, no matter whom they claim to represent.

There are plenty of model forms for that online.

I also demand their license number since my state requires any debt collector to be licensed.

Usually I get back a letter from them that paraphrased, says, "you do not owe this debt and we will cease trying to collect it from you."

Last time I did then provide proof of payment for a relative where I handled their affairs, but afterwards heard nothing else.

Didn't get a clearance letter, but that alleged debt is now past my state's short statute of limitations.

 

[Koolau]

And people in Hell want ice water...

Look, I've NEVER paid a dime to any collection agency that has contacted me.

The first thing to send them is a letter demanding proof of debt, no matter whom they claim to represent.

There are plenty of model forms for that online.

I also demand their license number since my state requires any debt collector to be licensed.

Usually I get back a letter from them that paraphrased, says, "you do not owe this debt and we will cease trying to collect it from you."

Last time I did then provide proof of payment for a relative where I handled their affairs, but afterwards heard nothing else.

Didn't get a clearance letter, but that alleged debt is now past my state's short statute of limitations.

Heh, heh, after the letters I sent and all the letters they sent - saying I owed the money, I called them. I got a "nice lady" on the phone and told her I would sue her company if I got anything but a letter resolving the bogus issue. She thanked me for calling and that's the last I heard. Apparently, she had some pull or she believed me. Letters can w*rk. So can phone calls (though letters are much better for documentation.) YMMV