Adventures in Ketosis (long)

[EastWest Gal]

Here's something that baffles me. When I add up the total number grams of protein+carb+fat in these things I always find that they add up to way less than the serving size. What am I missing? Is there something that they don't mention?

I'm not sure what you're asking. I'm guessing that you are puzzled that the serving size is heavier than the sum of grams of protein, fat, and carb. The serving also includes a significant amount of water. Most meat is 75% water, many vegetables are around 90%. The water content adds a significant amount of weight to the product.

 

[aja8888]

If I remember also your PSA was almost 0 or something like that? You're a healthy specimen [emoji16]

Yes, PSA tests over the last decade are between 0.7 and 1.4. The only thing that jumped out on an early blood test 10+ years ago was low in Vitamin D. So I take it each day.

Cardio system is in good shape now that the occurrence of SVT last Fall was taken care of via an ablation in December.

I must be lucky with internals but have had several surgeries for broken bones, a hip replacement, torn meniscus, some reconstructive plastic surgery (car accident face mess up).

 

[skipro33]

My understanding about urine ketones was that they would eventually disappear, so after a month I also got a blood ketones meter. My initial readings were at the very high end of “optimal nutritional ketosis” (optimal for weight loss) which is up to 3.0 mmol/L. But some readings were above 3. But still close enough to the “optimal nutritional ketosis” zone. So far so good.

What blood ketone meter did you select and can you recommend one?

 

[audreyh1]

What blood ketone meter did you select and can you recommend one?

I bought the Keto Mojo meter after reading some reviews. I’ve found it fine to use. Using blood meters is not trivial, but considering that, this meter is relatively straightforward. It also can measure glucose.

Urine strips are far easier and cheaper, but much less accurate. Still they can give you a ballpark.

 

[audreyh1]

Ha! All those high blood ketone readings and today’s reading was 2.4 mmol/L. Back under 3.

We’ll see how it goes.

I did have a nice 4oz glass of Ribera del Duero with the Rabo de Toro I made in the instant pot. Hmmm......

 

[yakers]

With all this talk about LCHF and Ketosis, I think it would be nice if someone started a Low carb Recipe post. I personally find it very difficult to find recipes that are substantial enough on their own. They always seem too little, especially if trying to keep one's net carbs to around ~30g a day. I can easily eat 8oz of Cauliflower and Broccoli with my main evening meal, say with an 8oz pork chop or chicken breast. That is like 25 carbs just there. Is eating like a mouse required for LCHF diets?

I like this site: https://www.diabetesdaily.com/recipe
The internet is your friend, more low carb recpes on many, many sites

 

[yakers]

A bit OT, but thanks for this! I've used RequestaTest and they've been great, but it's good to have an alternative with different test "packages".

I used Walk In Labs a couple times to test A1C and this week to test fasting insulin (mine came in at 4 on a 2 to 19 scale (I believe different labs can have different scales), so that does not indicate insulin resistance. I am LCHF to keep my blood sugar down, was 5.9 a couple years back and have been 5.5 or lower that last several 6 mo A1C tests. I have no particular desire to go keto but will do so if that is what I have to do to keep my blood sugar down.

 

[RonBoyd]

I believe I have, by now, read every article ever written about dieting and I know I have purchased way too many books on the subject. After all that, I am left with this:

How do we explain the utter failure of the weight loss industry, given that a huge amount of money, brainpower, energy has gone into scientific research; given that it is a major source of both psychological and physical suffering that decreases longevity and quality of life?

The same question was asked in this NYTimes article last year -- https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/10/...JHGcyiPfTpgkpf4g6CmHcq0YlCel2SBRpkEdy20m9OXv8

You’d think that scientists at an international conference on obesity would know by now which diet is best, and why. As it turns out, even the experts still have widely divergent opinions.

Speaking of books, this one, "The Shangri-La Diet," is worth referring to periodically:

https://www.google.com/search?newwi...M0KHeh5B7AQmxMoATAiegQIEBAh&biw=1511&bih=1013

 

[audreyh1]

I used Walk In Labs a couple times to test A1C and this week to test fasting insulin (mine came in at 4 on a 2 to 19 scale (I believe different labs can have different scales), so that does not indicate insulin resistance. I am LCHF to keep my blood sugar down, was 5.9 a couple years back and have been 5.5 or lower that last several 6 mo A1C tests. I have no particular desire to go keto but will do so if that is what I have to do to keep my blood sugar down.

4 is an outstanding result for fasting insulin. Congratulations!

Even though the range is given up to 19, anything above 8 is not optimal. You really want to be below 8 or 7.5 to indicate no insulin resistance from what I have read several places.

Looks like you are healing by maintaining that lower blood sugar.

 

[audreyh1]

How do we explain the utter failure of the weight loss industry, given that a huge amount of money, brainpower, energy has gone into scientific research; given that it is a major source of both psychological and physical suffering that decreases longevity and quality of life?

The same question was asked in this NYTimes article last year -- https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/10/...JHGcyiPfTpgkpf4g6CmHcq0YlCel2SBRpkEdy20m9OXv8

You’d think that scientists at an international conference on obesity would know by now which diet is best, and why. As it turns out, even the experts still have widely divergent opinions.

Politics? Including food politics and industry lobbying?

The International Congress of Obesity (the largest such conference) - that’s where attendees were served a lunch of sweetened fruit yogurt, a tuna sandwich that was mostly bread with very very little filling, a candy bar and apple. Dr. Andreas Eenfeldt said it was the worst lunch he’d eaten in a very long time, did a blood glucose response graph on himself for that high carb meal compared to a very low carb meal. It was bad.

You can watch it here starting at 24:00

 

[braumeister]

How do we explain the utter failure of the weight loss industry, given that a huge amount of money, brainpower, energy has gone into scientific research; given that it is a major source of both psychological and physical suffering that decreases longevity and quality of life?

IMHO it's very simple. I bolded the key word in your question.

The most effective method of weight loss does NOT involve selling us ANY products. Given the proper information, anyone can control their weight with only real food.

 

[MichaelB]

The most effective method of weight loss does NOT involve selling us ANY products. Given the proper information, anyone can control their weight with only real food.

+1

 

[RAE]

How do we explain the utter failure of the weight loss industry, given that a huge amount of money, brainpower, energy has gone into scientific research; given that it is a major source of both psychological and physical suffering that decreases longevity and quality of life?

Money and profit are intertwined in all of this. The big food companies make most of their profits selling ultra-processed junk food to consumers. This junk food leads to obesity. Obese people support the "weight loss industry" you mention, and once again, there is huge money in this, whether you actually get people to lose weight or not (in fact, you could argue that there is more money to be made if people struggle for years to try and lose weight).

I'm not saying there are no weight loss programs that give good diet advice (there are), but there are also a whole lot of them whose diet/exercise programs are pretty much a complete failure (look at the TV show "The Biggest Loser").

Compared to the profits made from unprocessed foods, there is not a lot of money to be made selling processed foods for people (which would keep them healthy, if they ate more of it, and less processed food).

All the ultra-processed junk food consumption also leads to an epidemic of chronic disease (metabolic syndrome = diabetes, CVD, cancer, etc). This is great for the big drug companies, who make lots of $$ selling drugs like statins to unhealthy people. And this may sound harsh, but if you suffer (but stay alive) for years near the end of your life, the drug companies make more money off of you (as compared to someone who was relatively healthy up until the time of their death).

There is plenty of scientific research that supports avoiding processed foods if you want to remain healthy. So, the information is out there, and not that hard to find if you go looking for it. But you won't see the big food companies or big drug companies promoting the findings from this research (ever see a commercial on TV for vegetables?).

About 3/4 of the stuff for sale at the average grocery store is either processed or ultra-processed food (I prefer to call it "pseudo food"). Most shoppers have their carts loaded with this stuff. So, the cycle mentioned above goes on and on...........

 

[RonBoyd]

How do we explain the utter failure of the weight loss industry,

Yeah, that was a very poor choice... instead of "industry," I, perhaps, should have said "research"... the exact word escapes me. Blaming it on politics, greed, lack of the individual's incentive, and other theories have all been submitted without conclusion for obvious reasons -- mainly that they can't be precisely measured.

Notice in the article the author pointed out that:

* There is nothing new in the diet universe.
* No one appears to have successfully found a way to lose weight and keep it off;
* No one really knows why people have become fatter in recent decades.
* Despite increases in aerobic exercise, greater availability of fruits and vegetables, and increased education about healthy nutrition, the obesity epidemic has not diminished.

In any event, I stand by my statement that the solution to the issue remains elusive.

 

[tuckeverlasting]

Here is another pretty comprehensive keto resource:

https://www.marksdailyapple.com/keto/

 

[audreyh1]

Notice in the article the author pointed out that:

Quote:
* There is nothing new in the diet universe.
* No one appears to have successfully found a way to lose weight and keep it off;
* No one really knows why people have become fatter in recent decades.
* Despite increases in aerobic exercise, greater availability of fruits and vegetables, and increased education about healthy nutrition, the obesity epidemic has not diminished.

In any event, I stand by my statement that the solution to the issue remains elusive.

That author is not well-informed at all.

There is science that shows how to effectively address chronic diseases, and a by-product is losing weight/reversing obesity.

Some people make claims that “no one can stick to it” but they don’t know that.

It looks like Sweden managed to halt their obesity epidemic and cut their rate of deaths from heart disease in half.

The solution might seem elusive to you if you aren’t aware of some of the successes since 2008.

I recommend you watch the Dr. Andreas Eenfeldt video I posted in my first response to you.

 

[yakers]

I believe I have, by now, read every article ever written about dieting and I know I have purchased way too many books on the subject. After all that, I am left with this:

How do we explain the utter failure of the weight loss industry, given that a huge amount of money, brainpower, energy has gone into scientific research; given that it is a major source of both psychological and physical suffering that decreases longevity and quality of life?

Well, the best answer I have found is there is no single answer:

I know people who do well on vegan/vegetarian/plant based systems and keto/carnivores, the only thing I don't think works for anybody is a high fat high carb diet, commonly referred to as the SAD (Standard American Diet) and even that works for most people for a while, seems to catch up with us later in life.

 

[RAE]

* There is nothing new in the diet universe.
* No one appears to have successfully found a way to lose weight and keep it off;
* No one really knows why people have become fatter in recent decades.
* Despite increases in aerobic exercise, greater availability of fruits and vegetables, and increased education about healthy nutrition, the obesity epidemic has not diminished.

________________________________________________________________


Actually, I would take issue with several of these statements. Eating a diet of primarily whole/real food - and especially avoiding things like refined grains, anything with added sugar/high frucrose corn syrup, industrial seed oils, trans fats - is a pretty sure way to lose weight, for anyone that has been eating a diet close to the Standard American Diet. And most people who continue eating in this fashion will keep the weight off (I think several folks who post on this forum can vouch for that). You could also describe this way of eating as LCHF (low carb, high fat), or paleo/primal, but the key is to stick to whole foods and eat the right kinds of carbs and fat (i.e, veggies for most of your carbs, and healthy fats like olive oil and coconut oil rather than margarine or any of the jug/seed oils).

Those who gain weight back after eating like this for a while are usually those that slipped back into unhealthy eating habits (more processed foods). The key is to not look at eating a healthy diet of whole foods as a temporary thing, that you can do for a while, and then go back to your old ways. It doesn't work that way - you have to develop healthy eating habits and then stick with them for life (which is not all that hard, really........plenty of delicious foods are real/whole foods).

Also, if you look at a graph of the increasing number of obese people over the last 40 years or so, and compare that to a graph showing increased consumption of refined grains and sugary foods/drinks over the same time span, they track very close to one another. Many people were (and still are) convinced by USDA and others that "to lose weight you have to cut back on fat consumption", so there was an explosion of low-fat foods several decades ago that continues to this day. Most of these low-fat foods contain a lot of sugar and other undesirable ingredients, which add to weight gain.

Also, there may be increased availability of vegetables, but that doesn't mean that people are eating more vegetables than they used to (they aren't, from the data I've seen). And regarding nutrition education - there is a lot of bad/misleading nutrition information out there (again, going back to the low-fat thing), so taking this advice is not going to help you lose weight (in fact, you will probably continue to gain more weight).

Regarding exercise - exercise is great for a lot of reasons, but losing weight is not one of them. If you continue to eat an unhealthy diet of mostly processed foods, all the exercise in the world is not going to help you lose weight.

 

[aiken]

Great thread. The low carb diet worked for me 20 years ago when I ballooned up to 205 by eating lots of pastas/grains, etc, and minimizing red meat. Go figure. I went from 205 to 172 within 6 weeks...lots of intense exercise as well. Fast forward and I've slowly cheated my way back up to 192. These stories have got me back on the program and 180 is my labor day goal. Imagine the reduction in health care costs if the Keto way of eating ever really took hold in this country.

 

[FI50]

@audreyh1

Welcome to the journey! It looks like you are well informed and fortunate to have a doctor recommending LCHF to you.

I have been on the LCHF train since 1/1/2010. It took me 3 tries before finding a doctor that would accept the LCHF way of eating.

 

[braumeister]

It took me 3 tries before finding a doctor that would accept the LCHF way of eating.

Congratulations! I haven't found one around here, but last year I found one who doesn't argue with me about it (since I seem to be healthy) so I'm content with that.

 

[RonBoyd]

Okay, I am back. <chuckle> After some thought, I guess this is the best way I can put it:

Why after all this time, effort, and money hasn't there some simple solution that applies to everyone been found -- say a blood/urine test that would define the exact food/proportion needed to maintain a pre-determined weight for "every individal"? And, as far as that goes, what, exactly, is the ideal weight for a specific person -- I have noticed there are as many overweight (again, vague description) people living into there late 90s as there are overly thin ones. (I have always maintained it simply was as Malcolm Forbes said... "A wise choice of parents.")

In any event, this thread (well, the responses to my posts) sent me back digging through all that past minutia looking for how I arrived at my position. A couple things, while I am still slogging, worth mentioning are:

"Your body is not a bank account. It is a chemistry lab." --JJ Virgin, CNS. You can't make precise deposits or withdrawals and know exactly what your balance will be afterward.

And apropos to this thread, here is an article by Tom Naughton that back in 2014 convinced me to buy the book -- http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/2014/09/08/review-keto-clarity/ (This review kinda says what I am trying to.)

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1...&tag=fatheadmoviec-20&linkId=35EMRP73XM63NFKN

On a related subject, I have been fortunate in that my Primary Care Physician was completely on-board since I first brought up the LCHF diet idea about ten years ago. Even then, I was about ten years behind the "It's All A Big Fat Lie" article in the NYTimes.

 

[TromboneAl]

Ten years on lchf for DW and me. Probably under 20 g the whole time.

For cravings, Google:

Quest bars (cc ccokie dough)
Quest pizza
Chocorite
Chicharones
Carbquik
Low carb granola (diy with nuts) with heavy whipping cream
Mama Lupe's tortillas
Joseph's pita bread
Great low carb bread company
Netrition.com
Michelob Ultra
Chocoperfection

 

[DeborahB]

I have eaten low carb off and on since 2002. That first time I was younger, 54. I lost 20 pounds or so. The interesting thing is that my body shape changed a lot, much improved. At some point I stopped losing weight and also missed bread a lot. So back and forth for years.

Oddly enough, this morning I decided to try LCHF eating again, for weight loss. In the beginning when I did this, high fat was definitely not mentioned as much as it is now. I think that may be why I stopped losing weight on it.

For the past few years I’ve been fighting chronic fatigue syndrome and a lot of back trouble and my weight has crept up again. I’m going to a family wedding on September 1st and none of my clothes for that occasion fit!

Usually I have no trouble getting into ketosis. So i bought some meat and a few veggies. I need to buy olives and other fatty stuff. I have olive and coconut oil and dehydrated coconut but I heard that wasn’t good for you any more. Avocados can be bought frozen, just FYI.

What else... I’m on a statin and HCTZ to keep my cholesterol and blood pressure normal. I had blood work not long ago.

Right now I’m fatigued, but I also need dinner. I’m hungry. I have a roast chicken... and Genoa salami...

There are great lo-carb cookbooks. In 2002 there wasn’t as much available online so I have them. Let’s all keep in touch.

 

[Doc0]

I'm not keto but zero carb carnivore so I just eat meat and fat. I don't bother with keto meters or food measuring because there is no where else to go. After a year I lost 60 lbs my BP normalized my diabetes disappeared my joint pain went away my brain is clear and I don't have any "cravings" Mostly live on costco rib eye or some hamburger and some bacon and eggs. I generally eat twice a day and am never starving. I just eat when hungry. When we go out I just have a steak or some ribs occasionally some fish and I just don't eat the extra crap. It's a very easy meal plan both in consumption, preparation and cleanup and since you're not buying all the side crap, not particularly expensive. I stay 100% away from seed or vegetable oil which IMHO are poison. I can't believe it's not butter? It's not it's a precursor to plastic.