Advice Requested: How To Help Friends In A Tough Spot

[gamboolman]

Not sure if this is the correct forum? But here goes...

Please, we would like some advice from the Community on how to help some dear friends of ours who are experiencing hard financial times.

Please note that they have asked us for advice – so that door is open but we are not sure how best to proceed.

The Background:

Married couple ~age 60 for him and ~58 for her. No children. He has been a Independent General Construction Contractor and she has helped him with the Administrative Management of their business for many years. Basically a one man band. This is in Houston, Texas.

Covid pretty well shutdown their business. Additionally, his body is breaking down and he is physically unable to perform the work that he has done all his life.

We utilized them to perform many Retirement Repairs and Home/Property Upgrades when we retired 1-Feb-21. But we have finished with all that now, and we are no longer keeping them busy with work and projects for us.

They are now in severe Financial Stress and need money. We are talking in the low six figures range of need as they still have a Mortgage and life expenses. They have no savings and are in debt and have no other assets. They have no family that can help them and there are no future inheritances.

They have not asked us outright for money. But ms gamboolgal and I feel bad for them. We know that giving them money is not the long-term solution for their situation.

They are stressed out and depressed right now. They are close to losing their home and it appears they are just about giving up.

• What types of Assistance/Programs and/or Financial Counseling is available that we could suggest for them to explore and to help themselves get out of this situation.

Any advice would be appreciated.

gamboolman…

 

[njhowie]

Based on points you've made, I believe they should consider filing for bankruptcy protection.

Another thing - sell the home immediately and pay off the mortgage. While the real estate market is still pretty brisk, get rid of that debt and hopefully they have some equity in the home and will end out with some money in hand. Of course, they'd need to find somewhere else to live, but if they have no money or savings today, how long before they are behind on the mortgage and the house gets taken from them by the lender?

 

[daylatedollarshort]

They can contact their local senior services agency and see what senior / low income programs they might qualify for. Our area has quite a bit, like senior roommate matching services, budget counseling, Medicaid, free senior lunches, food bank, maybe subsidized senior / low income housing and much more. Reddit has a section called poverty finance that may also be helpful to ask this question on.

Can they do any kind of work, like fast food or retail, so they don't become homeless? With two minimum wage incomes or better, they could at least live like college kids until they are old enough to collect Social Security. Do they have any equity in the house if they tried to sell that before it gets foreclosed on? They also might be candidates for the cheap RV living guy's advice on Youtube.

 

[pb4uski]

Not enough information to provide much, but it makes no sense that "Covid pretty well shutdown their business". I played golf with a CPA tax practitioner yesterday and he said that his clients are all busting at the seams since covid... revenue is many multiples of what it was pre-covid because of much higher demand for goods and services. I suspect that perhaps he isn't trying hard because of his physical limitations and depression.

Do they have any significant home equity? There isn't a lot of pride in owning a house that you can't afford and it just creates stress for them. Piling on howie's thought, sell the house if there is enough home equity to, along with perhaps some income from the restructured business or jobs, carry them from now until 62 when they can claim SS (assuming that they paid self-employment taxes over the years and have enough credits to qualify for SS). If not, then I guess keep living in it until it gets taken by foreclosure.

I wonder if there are some things that he has experience doing that are easier on his body and that he could pivot to specialize in those things to improve his income. Or perhaps they can each just get a job to provide income, but even if they are both working it probably isn't going to fill a six-figure hole so selling the house and renting has to be on the table.

In your experience, could they successfully buy houses with minor needs, fix them up and then sell them for a profit and make enough to limp through to SS? If so, perhaps you could consider partnering with them as the financier. (I'm not suggesting this and I probably would not do it, but just throwing it out there).

 

[ivinsfan]

Well based on my experience with my broke friend ( which there is a long thread about here), there is a whole boatload of things they are not telling you. I notice they didn't mind telling you how much they "need" to get by.



Go ahead and feel bad for them cause you and your spouse are decent human beings but don't insert yourself into their issues. It won't end well because of all the things they ARE NOT TELLING YOU.



Continue to use them for jobs and recommend friends who need work but leave it at that. As far as programs that might help them, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. When they get thirsty enough they will find their own water.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I hired someone from Taskrabbit recently for a small job. If you friend can do small jobs that are not too physically demanding, like installing smoke detectors or drapery rods, he could list himself there. We have a member here who posted in another thread about turning away clients and making $32 a hour dog walking. There are sites to post for pet sitting, too. Right now there seems to be very low unemployment, so your friends should be able to find some kind of work.

 

[Midpack]

I thought construction was booming shortly after Covid hit? But sadly I don’t have any advice to the OPs question.

 

[rothlev]

he should apply for help from voc rehab, apply for social security disabiity, sell and spend down the house money, apply for section 8 housing for the elderly, she should take whatever jobs she is best suited for.

 

[MarieIG]

SS Disability? Low income housing? Food stamps? Medicaid? She may be able to get an office job. He may be able to get a job as a dispatcher or some other position that does not involve physical labor - but they will not be able to make six figures.

I would see if you could contact a social worker in your area who may have more information as to available programs.

If you and your DW are up to it, bring them over dinner/ groceries once a week or so. You can't assume their mortgage, you will just be throwing your own money away. If they can't pay it, they will loose the house eventually, but depending upon whether there is equity in the home, maybe they can sell it and move into a low cost apartment. The key is lowering their ongoing expenses, finding an inexpensive apartment, and establishing an income source, even if it is a small one.

 

[aja8888]

We live in the Spring, Texas area (The Woodlands) near Mr & Mrs Gamboolman and have been here for 30 years now. The amount of handyman type work that is needed around here is hard to fathom there is so much of it. We tried getting a contractor this Spring to build a small garden planter area with concrete block and I couldn't get anyone to return my calls. So I had my son-in-law help me build it.

There's tons of that type of work in this area as where we live is a HCOL area and many retired folks are here with plenty of funds.

Something is not right with your friend unless he can't find helpers, but there are always 40 or so day laborer at HD every morning waiting to hook up with small contractors every day.

 

[ivinsfan]

MarieIG the couple with the money issues needs to look for the social workers not the OP. If the broke couple doesn't care enough to do it on their own nothing will happen except the OP and his spouse will get a headache.

 

[RetiredAndLovingIt]

We live in the Spring, Texas area (The Woodlands) near Mr & Mrs Gamboolman and have been here for 30 years now. The amount of handyman type work that is needed around here is hard to fathom there is so much of it. We tried getting a contractor this Spring to build a small garden planter area with concrete block and I couldn't get anyone to return my calls. So I had my son-in-law help me build it.

There's tons of that type of work in this area as where we live is a HCOL area and many retired folks are here with plenty of funds.

Something is not right with your friend unless he can't find helpers, but there are always 40 or so day laborer at HD every morning waiting to hook up with small contractors every day.

Same in California, you can't even get a handyman to return your calls or they simply don't show up to do the job after they've scheduled it. It's been like that for the past couple of years now. Maybe he's not well but I think there might be more to the story than you're hearing.
I would not be loaning them any money for sure.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Same in California, you can't even get a handyman to return your calls or they simply don't show up to do the job after they've scheduled it. It's been like that for the past couple of years now. Maybe he's not well but I think there might be more to the story than you're hearing.
I would not be loaning them any money for sure.

Same here. We needed some gutter work done as soon as possible during a rainy period and had a really hard time finding anyone to do the work until we tried Taskrabbit. They weren't cheap but we did get the work done.

 

[ivinsfan]

Same in California, you can't even get a handyman to return your calls or they simply don't show up to do the job after they've scheduled it. It's been like that for the past couple of years now. Maybe he's not well but I think there might be more to the story than you're hearing.
I would not be loaning them any money for sure.

Winner,winner chicken dinner...

 

[jazz4cash]

Not enough information to provide much, but it makes no sense that "Covid pretty well shutdown their business".

I was thinking the same. Around here since Covid every homeowner needs a deck and every restaurant needs outdoor dining. Skilled trades are in high demand but so are skilled project managers and planner estimators. Also every Home Depot and Lowe’s is hiring. I suspect there maybe underlying issues that led to their situation. Hope they find some solutions.

 

[Irishgirlyc58]

I’m in California and echo what others have said about not being able to find contractors, handyman, painters, landscaper.
You name it. All too booked and many don’t call back at all.

I also concur with those that say they are not telling you everything.
I worked in social services for 35 years. Trust me, no one tells their friends and relatives the truth about their finances.

I also don’t like to see people suffer. If you can afford it have them to dinner or whatever feels comfortable to do.
senior services can refer them to other resources they may be eligible to.
Don’t bail them out. It will be a bottomless pit.

I had to do something similar to a friend from high school.
His life was a mess and had been for many years. He reached out to me about 10 years ago when we were in our 50’s. He needed help. I knew it would never end though so I did not return his call. I just couldn’t afford to help him. Financially or emotionally.
It was really hard to do because of my desire to save the world.
Thankfully my desire for a stable life outweighed that!

You sound like a kind generous person. Don’t let that get in the way of good sense.

 

[Badger]

Not sure if this is the correct forum? But here goes...

Please, we would like some advice from the Community on how to help some dear friends of ours who are experiencing hard financial times.

Please note that they have asked us for advice – so that door is open but we are not sure how best to proceed.

The Background:
...They are now in severe Financial Stress and need money. We are talking in the low six figures range of need as they still have a Mortgage and life hexpenses. They have no savings and are in debt and have no other assets. They have no family that can help them and there are no future inheritances...

gamboolman…

If they need six figures as an annual income then they really need to consider selling their house for another place to live as a start. Many people here live on much less in their retirement including us. The other drains on their income are a bit more of a challenge since they are the result of decades of bad judgement.
My best friend of 50 years was in the same situation. I did everything possible to help but he would not change his spending behavior or consider any of the suggestions that would have helped him. Although he had construction experience he would not take a job unless it was closer to his previous income. Those were no longer available due to him resorting to alcohol and drugs. He eventually lost everything and had to live on $1k a month of SS. He was very depressed and within a year came to the conclusion that his only option left was to end his life.
Some people don't want to admit their past mistakes and continue to repeat them. At 60 and 58 years they both need help that you cannot give them. The best that you can do is direct them to organizations that are designed for folks like them.

Cheers!

 

[FLSUnFIRE]

Couple thoughts...


One of the best home inspectors I hired was a GC that fell off a roof and couldn't do contracting after extensive PT to regain function. Somewhat cyclical job but if he knows construction he will be a lot better than people with no background other than taking a class to pass the test.



If bankruptcy is in the cards and there is substantial equity in the house, look into protections for the primary home in TX (not my realm)... even if hoping to sell the house, keep the asset protected until bankruptcy is complete rather than liquidate it before and have the equity turned into cash that is not protected.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

One of the best home inspectors I hired was a GC that fell off a roof and couldn't do contracting after extensive PT to regain function. Somewhat cyclical job but if he knows construction he will be a lot better than people with no background other than taking a class to pass the test.

This is what I was going to say; I would think with a lot of experience, he probably has worked with some younger, able-bodied workers who aren't as knowledgeable, and could do small jobs and assess and farm out harder jobs. Heck, maybe he could start a business called "Second Estimates" just to confirm costs that would be done by other people!

 

[Exchme]

Before you start giving money, consider that if they got to near 60 with no savings, there is more to the story than just a business failing, there is a lifetime of living beyond their means.

The job market is good in Houston, they could get work, even if outside their previous field. If he did general contracting, then he knows how to bid work, who the good crews are, how to schedule, etc. so should be very employable, even if not doing physical labor. She used to run the office and books, there is plenty of need for that too.

So it's very troubling that instead of finding work, they choose to bleed on you about their need for money.

 

[Closet_Gamer]

Not to pile on but:

Hot housing market
Hot job market
60 years old and "breaking down" doesn't mean he can't work

Probably time for tough love: sell the house and start filling out job applications.

 

[mystang52]

Reading between the lines, they may not have directly asked for $$ but I am certain they hope OP will offer some (a lot?). OP: I suggest you write down a few suggestions, including selling their house and bankruptcy. Anything you SAY will likely fall on deaf ears, unless you say "we decided to give you $50,000."

 

[Act2]

I’d suggest OP’s friends start by calling their local Area Agency on Aging.

 

[pacergal]

Agree with pretty much everything said so far.

gamboolman--sorry your friends are in this spot. It is hard to see family and friends suffer.
There are options out there besides giving them your hard earned money--that option will just open the door for more heartache for you.
Refer them to your local Senior Services or Aging services, apply for SSDI if he truly is unable to work, suggest they sell their home, apply for senior living/section 8/low income, call for Meals on wheels.
There are so many agencies out there, but you have to be persistent.

I am also not understanding the loss of work during covid. So many folks around here did incredible amounts of home remodeling. Maybe he felt uncomfortable/unsafe to go into others homes due to possible risk of infection?
It sounds like they either never saved anything or have blown through what they did have.
What they shared with you is most likely only the tip of the iceberg.
I would not get involved, other than recommend local services for seniors and possibly a realtor for advice.

Best wishes to you and your neighbor.

 

[gamboolman]

Thank You All ! Wow - some great responses and suggestions have been offered up.

We needed to have reinforcement of how we are feeling - and yawl have done this ! Thank You !

We're reading about ivinsfan broke friend.

This situation is very similar.

This is really just the same as what we experienced in Africa and when we we left Africa.

We still get phone calls and emails from the folks in Africa that worked for us when we we're living and working there asking for us to send them monies.
ms gamboolgal just got a call 2 days ago but she no longer answers the calls or calls them back.
When we were living there we would help them out. There was always a crisis that needed monies.
But when we repatriated and left Africa to come back home to Texas - we have not sent any monies to any of the them because "It will never end".

ms gamboolgal and I are thinking that we'll have our friends over for a cookout in the backyard and Patio.

We'll just listen and based on how that goes - we will offer up the suggestions that have been discussed herein of Actions that they need to take and do.

1) For each one of them to get a job. For him one less physically demanding.
2) Consider selling their house and getting in a lower cost house or apartment.
3) Go to Social Services and see what Programs they qualify for.
4) Investigate Social Security and Disability, etc.
5) Go to free Financial Counseling and get a Plan tailored specifically for there situation.
6) Consider filing for Bankruptcy.


We are not going to "Gift" them monies as we know it will be "Bottomless Pit" and never end.

Friendships and Relationships can sure muddy the waters on doing and/or saying what clearly needs to be said and done.

We both know what we need to do. It's just not pleasant doing it !

We'll Post back with the "Rest Of The Story" when the time is right.

Thanks, gamboolman....