After I'm Gone

[Safe Harbour]

All,

I spend much of my financial-thinking time on - after I'm gone. How will my wife manage her finances. Like most of you, I do it myself today. There will come a time when either I can't do it or I'm not here to do it. What then? I'm not a fan of paying for a financial planner but I don't know if she has the interest in doing it herself. She has participated in the planning the last couple of years, but I manage things at a very detailed level that she won't have to and I think it makes it seem too overwhelming. I have tried to simplify over the years to make it easier for her. I have reduced to a single provider (Vanguard) and reduced to 8 funds (the four corners of the 9 squares of size vs growth/value for US and International). Plus Fixed Income and Cash. That gives 10 asset classes that have to be rebalanced each year. But then there are 4 accounts (Brokerage, Traditional IRA, Inherited IRA, ROTH IRA) that have to be considered in that rebalancing. There is cash flow planning to cover at least a 5 year horizon due Fixed Asset ladder (CDs in our case). And Withdrawal planning (which accounts to pull from), which, is pretty set now as we get close to RMD land. But she has to choose a withdrawal level for the year considering performance (account balances) and CPI in concert with needs planning.

Over the years I have developed 3 different generations of spreadsheets to do this. Each getting sequentially simpler. But the current version has 7 main tabs: Introduction & Instructions, Current Assets, Annual Monthly Planning, Withdrawal Planning, Available Cash Planning, Asset Allocation (This is pretty set), and Rebalance. She can, with a little assistance, do this now (we've had to go to monthly walk throughs as an annual walk through was difficult to recall). But what happens when there is something non-standard or the speadsheet fails or becomes outdated?

So at this point I either have to realize that this is a bridge to far, get even simpler, figure out a way to connect her to a fee-only planner that is content to wait maybe years, or lately I have been considering involving one or all of our kids (I would pay them to do this and they have the ability). I really don't know what to do.

What do you plan to do or actually do? I would especially like to hear from the spouse that had to take over or maybe an offspring who took over for a parent. What worked or didn't work for you? This has to be a very common occurrence for this group of self-money managers.

 

[aja8888]

Good topic, many posts around here on that subject. My wife died in late 2022 and I just took it all over, but I was the main person handling the money anyway. I do have a "After I Die" book for my daughter that spells out everything she needs to do inherit the assets and to close the estate.

One of my best friends died a few years ago, and his daughter took over the financial stuff until his widow remarried and the new husband is doing it all. That happens if the widow decides to go in that direction.

 

[RetiredHappy]

I handle day to day finances and my husband is not as detail oriented as me. In terms of investments, he used to be very good at it but these days, he would not do anything unless I sit with him to go through it together. I think it's because he is getting older that he is getting a bit more cautious or tentative.

I am working on putting together details of all accounts and bills that need to be paid. I am not concerned about his ability to continue to manage his investments.

My biggest concern is that I am leaving all my taxable investments to my son and he won't and can't manage investments. He is someone who prefers to put all his money under his pillow. I am trying my best to get him out of that mindset. He has high functioning autism and hence his personality in being risk adverse and hates changes. Down the road I plan on taking about half the taxable investments and buying deferred income annuities in his name so that he gets an income stream.

 

[pacergal]

I do the financial work in our marriage. We have a financial planner we meet with a couple times a year.
DH sits with me every few months to go over bill paying, etc. He could do it if I no longer could. We both agree to involve our kids as we get older (later 60's now)
We also have an "after we die" type book for the kids.

 

[Midpack]

I've simplified our portfolio over the years, in preparation for someone else taking over when I'm gone. It's as close to autopilot as I can make it, but there are some tasks. I have everything well documented, and she knows where everything is - thanks in part to trust planning where everything is literally all in one place. DW could probably handle it, but she is really not interested. I might suggest she turn to Vanguard PAS if necessary, but I imagine she will turn to her younger BIL's financial advisor. Frankly I am more concerned about her handling taxes than investing, and I can't really simplify that thanks to our elected officials. It is an issue for many of us here. My Dad had his entire NW in Treasuries for the last 10+ years of his very long life, mostly to make things easier for my Mom if he passed first (he didn't).

 

[jebmke]

First, my wife is perfectly able to handle everything although she would prefer to not get bogged down in a lot of "administration."

I have been on a tear to simplify everything - in part for my own benefit and in part to make it easier for her to pick it up.

Every chance I get I try to eliminate activities related to finance.

As an example, I had on my list of things to do putting our two credit cards on autopay. In December I had a medical emergency - before leaving to the ER (I had a bit of warning) I finally went online and flipped on autopay.

During the pandemic when people were dropping in the hundreds/thousands I did a lot to simplify things.

I probably spend about 5-10 minutes a month on financial matters now.

 

[harllee]

I suggest that people simplify their finances as they get older. I have had to take over the finances for my 92 year old mother and it was a mess--assets scattered everywhere. It has taken me hours and hours of work and still more to do. I could just scream.
For myself I have simplified to the point I only have assets at 2 places--Vanguard and the local credit union. I do nothing to it other than look at the balances every month, do some QCDs and take out my RMD once a year.

 

[Souschef]

We have a binder called "Estate Plan" put together by the lawyer that did our plan. In the front of it, I have copies of spreadsheets listing all our assets, along with the name, account number, address, and phone number of all the various financial institutions.
It also lists the website and password for all of them.

 

[jebmke]

I suggest that people simplify their finances as they get older. I have had to take over the finances for my 92 year old mother and it was a mess--assets scattered everywhere. It has taken me hours and hours of work and still more to do. I could just scream.

I am POA for an older sibling. We have not gone over details but I know hers is quite messy. I will see her in late May to start the conversation. If she doesn't agree to simplify things I am going to suggest she find someone else to be the POA.

 

[Safe Harbour]

I might suggest she turn to Vanguard PAS if necessary

I just looked at Vanguard PAS. While the 0.3% fee seems interesting, PAS is only for a few funds. In the case of the general PAS they (4 of them) are VTI Total Stock Market ETF, BND Total Bond Market ETF, BNDX Total International Bond ETF, VXUS Total International Stock ETF. That means a lot of selling and buying to get to "their portfolio" and of course it means taxes in the brokerage account. Ugh!

 

[disneysteve]

A few years ago we had a couple of meetings with a CFP who happens to be my wife's cousin and is a guy we trust and respect. We were not interested in him managing our money. We just wanted a trained eye to take a look at our portfolio and give us an educated opinion about my early retirement plan. He ran a few projections and made some graphs and agreed that we were doing great and all was in place.



The secondary reason to get him involved was so that he'd have at least a little familiarity with our situation should anything happen to me. My wife could then enlist his help to figure everything out and have a plan for how to move forward as well as a person to ask when she had questions.


I have simplified our portfolio some in recent years but it remains pretty complicated simply due to the large variety of accounts (traditional and Roth IRAs, a SEP IRA, inherited traditional and Roth IRAs, a 401k, a few taxable accounts, etc.). I've combined as much as I can combine without selling off assets and taking big tax hits. So she'll definitely need some guidance if I'm gone.

 

[euro]

All,

I spend much of my financial-thinking time on - after I'm gone. How will my wife manage her finances. Like most of you, I do it myself today. There will come a time when either I can't do it or I'm not here to do it. What then? I'm not a fan of paying for a financial planner but I don't know if she has the interest in doing it herself. She has participated in the planning the last couple of years, but I manage things at a very detailed level that she won't have to and I think it makes it seem too overwhelming. I have tried to simplify over the years to make it easier for her. I have reduced to a single provider (Vanguard) and reduced to 8 funds (the four corners of the 9 squares of size vs growth/value for US and International). Plus Fixed Income and Cash. That gives 10 asset classes that have to be rebalanced each year. But then there are 4 accounts (Brokerage, Traditional IRA, Inherited IRA, ROTH IRA) that have to be considered in that rebalancing. There is cash flow planning to cover at least a 5 year horizon due Fixed Asset ladder (CDs in our case). And Withdrawal planning (which accounts to pull from), which, is pretty set now as we get close to RMD land. But she has to choose a withdrawal level for the year considering performance (account balances) and CPI in concert with needs planning.

Over the years I have developed 3 different generations of spreadsheets to do this. Each getting sequentially simpler. But the current version has 7 main tabs: Introduction & Instructions, Current Assets, Annual Monthly Planning, Withdrawal Planning, Available Cash Planning, Asset Allocation (This is pretty set), and Rebalance. She can, with a little assistance, do this now (we've had to go to monthly walk throughs as an annual walk through was difficult to recall). But what happens when there is something non-standard or the speadsheet fails or becomes outdated?

So at this point I either have to realize that this is a bridge to far, get even simpler, figure out a way to connect her to a fee-only planner that is content to wait maybe years, or lately I have been considering involving one or all of our kids (I would pay them to do this and they have the ability). I really don't know what to do.

What do you plan to do or actually do? I would especially like to hear from the spouse that had to take over or maybe an offspring who took over for a parent. What worked or didn't work for you? This has to be a very common occurrence for this group of self-money managers.

A very common problem and one that DW and I struggle with too. Probably the most helpful suggestion is what others have already pointed out: simplify as much as possible. I have been working on that for the past 5 years and consolidated many accounts, positions, etc. Still got quite a long way to go but slowly getting there.

 

[GaryInCO]

My biggest concern is that I am leaving all my taxable investments to my son and he won't and can't manage investments. He is someone who prefers to put all his money under his pillow. I am trying my best to get him out of that mindset. He has high functioning autism and hence his personality in being risk adverse and hates changes.

I have a very similar situation. My son (29) is sharp and has his life together. My daughter (27) has mild autism and fairly bad ADHD, and there is no way she can manage finances. She's extremely intelligent but totally disorganized and unmotivated. In spite of her genius-level IQ she nearly flunked out of high school and didn't do any better when she attempted college. So I need to set it up so she benefits from her half of my estate -- maybe see if her brother would be willing to manage a simple account, and/or maybe buy an annuity to guarantee her a permanent inflation-adjusted income. Definitely not what I expected with such a bright child ...

 

[RetiredHappy]

I have a very similar situation. My son (29) is sharp and has his life together. My daughter (27) has mild autism and fairly bad ADHD, and there is no way she can manage finances. She's extremely intelligent but totally disorganized and unmotivated. In spite of her genius-level IQ she nearly flunked out of high school and didn't do any better when she attempted college. So I need to set it up so she benefits from her half of my estate -- maybe see if her brother would be willing to manage a simple account, and/or maybe buy an annuity to guarantee her a permanent inflation-adjusted income. Definitely not what I expected with such a bright child ...

My son is very bright, scores high on IQ and graduated with 2 Bachelors' degrees, one in Accounting and the other in Geography (Geograhical Information Systems) at 2 separate times from State universities. But with typical high functioning ASD, he can only get minimum wage jobs. He owns his home outright and manages his day-to-day finances well. He keeps all his IRA in money market, no kidding. He won't allow me to manage it because he has earned it and cannot handle any losses with the money. So I set up a joint brokerage and I invest for him with gifted funds.

 

[Exchme]

I once held that many funds in IRAs and decided it was too complex for managing in the future. So I simplified to 3 funds - Total Market, Total International and Total Bond. I've been considering Intermediate Treasury instead of Total Bond, but too lazy to do it. I'm trapped in a mess of funds in taxable, but have dividends going to the settlement account.

Rebalancing can be partial. So you could tie rebalancing into RMDs - sell the fund that is high and use that for the RMD. In taxable, anything beyond this year's planned spend could be put in the fund that's low. If that's not enough, oh well, there's always next year.

At RMD age, you are getting beyond the time when SOR is worst, so rebalancing at all is becoming optional, particularly if you have plenty of money.

If you have a trusted child, giving them a durable power of attorney (brokerages may have their own forms, Vanguard calls it Full Agent Authorization and requires their own forms be used). DW and I did that for each other, so that if I get incapacitated, she has the right to use my IRA for my care.

Insisting on a complex plan and providing a complex, partially understood tool to an aging spouse is more likely to drive a surviving spouse into the loving embrace of a greedy advisor who's main goal will be lining their own pocket.

 

[iloveyoga]

I picture my son and or my husband managing the finances and this has made me simplify and keep simplifying. I know my DH will not want to meet with a financial advisor and I have never used one. So I have a very simple allocation at Vanguard and one checking account. Pension and SS coming in would be enough to pay the bills for awhile at least....So hopefully doable....I am always thinking how could I make this easier. Maximizing returns now comes in second to simplification.

 

[Ronstar]

I switched from self managed to an FA last September because I know DW would need an FA to get by on her own. Same FA that DW's mom has used for decades, and we have known him for several years. Very comfortable in my switch. I could drop dead at any time and she would have no problem going forward financially.

 

[Mark1]

....
Over the years I have developed 3 different generations of spreadsheets to do this. Each getting sequentially simpler. But the current version has 7 main tabs: Introduction & Instructions, Current Assets, Annual Monthly Planning, Withdrawal Planning, Available Cash Planning, Asset Allocation (This is pretty set), and Rebalance. She can, with a little assistance, do this now (we've had to go to monthly walk throughs as an annual walk through was difficult to recall). But what happens when there is something non-standard or the speadsheet fails or becomes outdated?
....

Yes, I too have the same concerns and I have simplified my spreadsheet over the years and I suspect my worksheet tabs aren't terribly different from yours. I'm also very aware of the how the once per year review/involvement is too long of a review interval and much is forgotten without some assistance. My thoughts are that if I had terminal cancer and little time left, I would probably just forget about rebalancing and move almost all positions into money markets and a Fidelity Index Retirement account (e.g. FIKFX) that basically does the rebalancing for you. DW will have plenty to live on, so squeezing every possible dollar out of the portfolio is no longer my goal.

The strategy above might solve the investment problem, but that still leaves the yearly withdraw issue. It's pretty hard to plan a longer term withdraw strategy past 2025, when I don't even know what the tax code will look like starting in 2026. For example, we were able to accumulate about a $800,000 in backdoor ROTH IRA money from our post-tax 401K money at Megacorp, so blending it with pre-tax money will be important in the future.

Thanks for the post, as you have inspired me to get busy and develop a best practical plan for DW once I'm gone. Because I have no idea when I'm leaving, I guess I need multiple plans (I die tonight in my sleep, I have terminal cancer soon so I have some time to deal with items, or I die 10-20 years from now, but prior to DW passing).

If your DW likes puzzles and solving problems like mine, one suggest for you would be to write a quiz for your DW to force her to move around your spreadsheets and gain more familiarity with what you have developed.

Best of luck.

 

[youbet]

I just looked at Vanguard PAS. While the 0.3% fee seems interesting, PAS is only for a few funds. In the case of the general PAS they (4 of them) are VTI Total Stock Market ETF, BND Total Bond Market ETF, BNDX Total International Bond ETF, VXUS Total International Stock ETF. That means a lot of selling and buying to get to "their portfolio" and of course it means taxes in the brokerage account. Ugh!

I was reminded of tax implications of unrealized capital gains while doing our taxes this year. I have several long-time MF holdings that I'd like to roll into a single mutual fund but they all have substantial LTCG's (at least 80% LTCG in each). Selling and consolidating would cost me 15% of 80% each fund. Just letting them sit there my son will get a step up in basis and have no tax. I'm not dissatisfied with these funds, I'd just like my list of funds to be shorter. But a 15% penalty to do so? Hard to know what to do!

 

[youbet]

, particularly if you have plenty of money.

I've been noting lately that having plenty of money solves a lot of issues........

 

[marko]

While our accountant would be able to handle and help DW get up to speed, I believe there's another aspect of "being gone" that should also be considered.

There's the every day things around the house: where the fusebox is and how to reset them, the water main shutoff, how to open the garage door if the power goes out, or how those doors need the electric eyes aligned, how to reboot the router, unstick the disposal, reset the light timers as the hours change, pump her own gas, and a hundred little other tricks that you do to keep things running.

Also OP: You say you wouldn't want to hire a financial planner, but in your absence, it could be money well spent IMO especially if there's large sums involved.

 

[jebmke]

While our accountant would be able to handle and help DW get up to speed, I believe there's another aspect of "being gone" that should also be considered.

There's the every day things around the house: where the fusebox is and how to reset them, the water main shutoff, how to open the garage door if the power goes out, or how those doors need the electric eyes aligned, how to reboot the router, unstick the disposal, reset the light timers as the hours change, pump her own gas, and a hundred little other tricks that you do to keep things running.

Also OP: You say you wouldn't want to hire a financial planner, but in your absence, it could be money well spent IMO especially if there's large sums involved.

yeah; I hope my wife writes all these things down so I'll know where they all are.

 

[marko]

yeah; I hope my wife writes all these things down so I'll know where they all are.

Or you might consider hiring a good handyman or handywoman. A lot easier than trying to figure those things out on your own.

DWs plan is to just move to a nice large condo and make it all someone else's problem.

 

[Sunset]

While our accountant would be able to handle and help DW get up to speed, I believe there's another aspect of "being gone" that should also be considered.

There's the every day things around the house: where the fusebox is and how to reset them, the water main shutoff, how to open the garage door if the power goes out, or how those doors need the electric eyes aligned, how to reboot the router, unstick the disposal, reset the light timers as the hours change, pump her own gas, and a hundred little other tricks that you do to keep things running.

..............

And the other side of the coin is: Can I wear my underwear inside out to double the usage ?
How does the food get into the fridge ?
How come every time I look in the fridge I just see raw meat and vegies, where are the roast beef dinners, and tacos, and baked apples ?

I have worked with 30 something year old men who could not cook, and when living on their own eat every meal at a restaurant/McD's.

 

[Bruno]

Following for sure!!