Anybody out there a pilot?

[REWahoo]

If there is one thing that I have seen many times in aviation, it is the unconscious desire of pilots to put each other down: "You're not a real pilot unless you [insert one of the following] fly floats / fly aerobatics / fly instruments / fly helicopters / fly turbines / fly jets / fly > 25 hours a month / hold an ATPL / own your own aircraft / etc." [the list is almost endless].

There is room enough in the skies for all tastes.

I agree with everything but the unconscious part...

 

[hankster]

The most fun flying I've experienced was in an ultralight at < 100 ft. AGL. (I should note this took place over wide open wheat farming country with which I was very familiar.) Still, not the safest thing to be doing. A bit older, wiser and scareder (is that a word?) these days.

 

[MikeD]

I sold a gently used van to the guy who runs this business:
Twin Beech.com

I am very impressed with this movie:
http://users.skynet.be/fa926657/files/B29.wmv

That's about it for flying for me.

Mike D.

 

[Milton]

I would like to share the following extract from Peter Garrison's Flying Airplanes: The First Hundred Hours (great book, btw, which has aged well since its 1980 publication):

The part of flying that is romantic, I think, the part that makes all these people keep doing it, it not the part that is accessible to certain pilots – those flying supersonic jets, bush planes, rescue helicopters, or what have you – and not to others. It is the part that is accessible to all pilots: the chain of intermittent moments, the proverbial hours of boredom and the instants of terror or delight, which are imbued by their very monotony with a continuity and a wholeness that produces, eventually, the same love and yearning as one feels for a companion of many years. Only to be around airplanes, to fly them, is in itself a small but satisfactory romance. The romance is not in the planes, but in the pilots, like that romance of the road that absorbs truckers.

It can be quite boring to outsiders, this uncontrollable interest in airplanes, weather, geography, the sky, air crashes, airports; they are puzzled that, were it even in the middle of the Miss Nude America judging, the pilot would keep glancing upward, by an automatic and unconscious nervous reaction, when the drone of an airplane engine was heard overhead. Nor does the pilot himself know what he hopes to see in the passing airplane. He sees it without seeing it, as people see the time without seeing it who glance at their watches and have to glance again if you ask them, a second later, what time it is. Or as people glance at the reflection in a window; and indeed, as in the passing window, I think that what the pilot sees in the passing airplane is himself. For him all longings for escape, for mystery, for excitement and passion, for change, for youth or immortality, for disappearance, for power or for salvation, are bound up, however vainly, in that little dot that recedes obliquely in an azure sky.

 

[clifp]

I flew for 20 years. I would say over 80% of my flying was VFR. In a three hour mission in the F-111 the climb out was IFR, about 5 min, then cancel and hit the deck. 2.5 hours of low level at 480K + to the bombing range, and recover IFR to base, another 5 to 10 min. As a Forward Air Controller, almost all VFR, except for those days where we practiced instruments, or actual instruments. In Germany we gave 2nd Lt.s an aircraft and told them to plan their own mission and come back two hours later. In the air to air realm, sure it is somewhat controlled, but here, take these two air craft and see which one of you can shoot down the other. There are not many civilian pilots that get to shoot rockets, strafe, drop bombs or fly formation.

I'm not knocking civilian flying. There are somethings I would like to try, Gliders, Ultra-Light float plane, Helicopter, hot air balloon to name a few. Just not willing to pay for them.

That is exactly why I took an Air Force ROTC scholarship, that stuff sounded like fun. A pity my eyesight wasn't good enough to let me by even an aircrew operating. If only Lasik was invented 30 years ago thinks may have turned out differently.

Heck flying my dad's fast, retractable manuverable homebuilt was enough to sour me on Cessnas. I got think that after flying a F-xx any civilian plane would be dull.

 

[REWahoo]

I got think that after flying a F-xx any civilian plane would be dull.

Flying some of the T-xx types in't so bad either. This one for example (T-38 ):

 

[Rustic23]

REW
I got to go back to Instrument Instructor School and Fly the 38 again. It was in a different environment. It war really a hoot. No pressure like flight school.

 

[REWahoo]

You felt pressure when you were in flight school?

I look back at those days and sometimes wonder if I imagined them. No way anyone in their right mind would give me the opportunity to fly something like that or do some of the things I [-]had[/-] got to do.

Yep, the older I get, the better I was...

 

[samclem]

It didn't get much better than that--a solo T-38 contact sortie. "Here's the slickest, pointiest, highest wing-loading jet we have in the USAF. It's full of fuel. Go convert that fuel into noise, play in the pattern for awhile, and bring the plane back in 1.3 hours." But, the price was a whole lot of EP sims and chair flying before that point.

 

[Milton]

It didn't get much better than ... a solo T-38 ... the slickest, pointiest, highest wing-loading jet we have in the USAF.

Not that I've ever flown one, but the F-104 triumphs on all three counts!

 

[REWahoo]

Not that I've ever flown one, but the F-104 triumphs on all three counts!

If I understand you correctly, you're saying, "You're not a real pilot unless you [-][insert one of the following][/-] have flown the F-104".

 

[Milton]

Yep, that's how the pilot put-down game is played!

 

[Rustic23]

The F-104 was an interesting plane. It could not turn worth a cr&p so you had to fight n the vertical. I am not sure it ever fired a shot in anger. However, the F-111 was faster at altitude, and on the deck. However, it was like fighting in a dump truck! For pure sport, however, I'll still take the 38.

REW, I was in Del Rio for our reunion and the 'new' 38's have a glass cockpit. While we only got to look on a static, we did get to fly the simulators. I highly recommend reunions back at flight school.

 

[REWahoo]

I highly recommend reunions back at flight school.

I've completely lost touch with my entire class with the exception of one guy. I've done some searching on the web but not found any information on unit/class reunions. Any idea of where I might look?

 

[Rustic23]

If your class had changed to SSN for service numbers, then Public Data.com might work. I have heard you can send USAA a stack of cards and they will mail them. Old orders with SSN's are another source. Good Luck!

 

[Milton]

The F-104 was an interesting plane. It could not turn worth a cr&p so you had to fight n the vertical. I am not sure it ever fired a shot in anger.

I'm no aviation historian, but I believe Taiwanese F-104s scored a few MiG kills, and PAF F-104s claimed a few victories against IAF aircraft.

 

[Rustic23]

Your are right. The Pakistanis also have several kills, also the India shot down several F-104's of Pakistan. I was referring to the U.S. Air Force aircraft.

[1.0] Starfighter Origins / F-104 In USAF Service

Good site for the history of the F-104. I did not know it had a downward ejection seat. That alone would cause me to look elsewhere. However, it was a capable aircraft for it's day. I think it was replaced by the F-5 for the Taiwanese, and the F-15 for the Germans and other Nato countries.

 

[samclem]

There's at least one private company flying three F-104s in airshows. (Starfighters F-104 Demo Team - Home ) They also offer rides, just bring along a little jingle to pay for the fuel. About $10,000 for a ride.

So,how much is $10,000?

ER math: "$10,000 in the bank produces $33 per month (4% annual rate). So, for less than $35 per month you get a memory that lasts forever. Hey, what's the money for, anyway? "

FI math: " $10,000 for probably 25 minutes = $400 per minute. That's a lot (even Elliot Spitzer wasn't paying that much) . That $10K would pay for a dinner out (or cheap dinner and movie) every month for the rest of our lives. (or convert to boat, RV, cheap car, etc of your choice) It took us XX months of working to save that money. Would I even be able enjoy a ride with the meter running at this furious pace?)

I saw an RCAF F-104 at the Edwards AFB airshow in about 1982. A hot day and that little wing = he used a LOT of runway. A very cool demo. Sure, it takes miles to turn around, but there's something to be said for going fast in a straight line. I'll bet the roll rate is even better than the T-38's 720 deg/sec.

$10,000 . . . hmm. What's the money for, anyway?

 

[Milton]

It was a capable aircraft for it's day. I think it was replaced by the F-5 for the Taiwanese, and the F-15 for the Germans and other Nato countries.

Taiwan certainly had (and still has some) F-5s, but IIRC they opted for the (much more potent) F-16 as the direct replacement for their F-104s. And to the best of my knowledge, the USA is the only NATO member to operate the F-15 (too expensive for everyone else).

- Canada and Spain both replaced their F-104s with F-18s
- Germany and Italy both opted for Panavia's Tornado
- Belgium, Denmark, Greece, Holland, Norway and Turkey all switched to the F-16

I think.

 

[Rustic23]

My Bad I meant F-16 to Nato Countries.
F-15A 373 initial USAF single seaters (including 18 "YF-15As")
F-15B 59 initial USAF tandem seaters (including 2 TF-15As)
F-15C 408 improved USAF single seaters
F-15D 62 improved USAF tandem seaters

F-15C 18 new-build F-15Cs for Israel
F-15D 13 new-build F-15Ds for Israel

F-15C 55 new-build F-15Cs for Saudi Arabia
F-15D 19 new-build F-15Ds for Saudi Arabia

F-15J 203 F-15Cs for JASDF, most manufactured by Mitsubishi
F-15DJ 20 F-15Ds for JASDF, most manufactured by Mitsubishi

1,230 TOTAL EAGLE PRODUCTION

F-15E 236 USAF Strike Eagles
F-15S 72 F-15Es for Saudi Arabia
F-15I 25 F-15Es for Israel
F-15K 40 F-15Es with GE engines for Korea, now on order

373 TOTAL STRIKE EAGLE PRODUCTION
____________________________________________________________________

1,603 TOTAL F-15 PRODUCTION

 

[Milton]

Yes, I know about the non-USA F-15 countries. But none of them are in NATO (yet!).

It's an expensive airplane. Still, many might say that you get what you pay for. There's no arguing with its impressive combat record, especially in Israeli hands.

The F-16 is popular primarily because it is (relatively) cheap.