Are You Middle Class (Calculator)?

[Irishgirlyc58]

First of all, I haven't seen anyone suggest that middle class status does or doesn't determine behavior. Maybe I missed it or ignored it It actually probably does to some extent (I sure acted differently when I didn't have an extra dime in college. The term "ramen noodles" comes to mind.) The term "middle class" does not discuss, denote or connote behavior. It's a technical term that (clearly from our discussion) is not as well defined without official parameters attached. That's what we started out to do. Come up with the parameters as contained in someone's "calculator." YMMV on that.

My point is that we currently have a perfectly good, 100+ year old term for "how much money people have." Changing it because someone thinks the word is now problematic, only leads to more problems - not less. I pointed out those problems in (what turned out to be) my rant so I won't go over it again.

My BFF started out just like I did - lower middle class. His dad was a good earner, but a drunk and womanizer. All this caused what should have been a middle class life to be lower middle class life style.

My parents both lost their j*bs after the war in defense plants because my mom was (guess what) female. My dad lost his j*b because he wasn't a veteran because he was profoundly disabled and couldn't have joined the military (But I wouldn't have wanted to go up against him!!)

So my parents scraped together $400 and started a business that is still thriving today (3rd generation.) And therefore, I started out lower middle class - just like my BFF.

Copied from post #11- maybe I interpreted what the person is saying incorrectly.
“‘Class' denotes behavior. There is no intrinsic correlation between income level and class, i.e. behavior.”

I said nothing about changing the terms lower class, middle class, etc so…

Eating ramen because you are broke is not the type of generational behavior that I was referring to regarding people who live in poverty.

That’s all I’m going to say at this point.

 

[Koolau]

Copied from post #11- maybe I interpreted what the person is saying incorrectly.
“‘Class' denotes behavior. There is no intrinsic correlation between income level and class, i.e. behavior.”

I said nothing about changing the terms lower class, middle class, etc so…

Eating ramen because you are broke is not the type of generational behavior that I was referring to regarding people who live in poverty.

That’s all I’m going to say at this point.

Okay, me too.

 

[Letj]

I’ve always taken issue with using class to define income level (maybe it’s my upbringing where class was something to aspire to and that meant comportment and character). I prefer to use the terms low income, middle income and high income. While class and income sometimes correlate, often they don’t (the poor aristocrat comes to mind). Class denotes behavior including proper manners. Anyone can get money but class is learned from what you’ve seen modeled in your upbringing.

 

[GenXguy]

I’ve always taken issue with using class to define income level (maybe it’s my upbringing where class was something to aspire to and that meant comportment and character). I prefer to use the terms low income, middle income and high income. While class and income sometimes correlate, often they don’t (the poor aristocrat comes to mind). Class denotes behavior including proper manners. Anyone can get money but class is learned from what you’ve seen modeled in your upbringing.

Wow, getting into proper manners and modeling. Everyone has their own definition. lol High class people can have bad manners. And who defines what manners belong to what class? You can see that complicates things compared to the easy calculator in the OP that is more clear cut on middle class, although not perfect.

 

[TheWizard]

Heh, heh, I'll just revert to my old adage. I have enough.

I prefer to say: "I'm doing okay."...

 

[TheWizard]

Income for me is very little but doesn't show the whole picture with the calculator. I'm a pauper in a sense but is a false view.

I'm by no means a rich person financially.

Ok, but owning several thousand acres of Montana is nothing to sneeze at...

 

[Letj]

Wow, getting into proper manners and modeling. Everyone has their own definition. lol High class people can have bad manners.

Lol. Then they don’t have class. You do have a point. The definition varies.

 

[MC Rider]

I always thought of myself as middle class, or working class.
Very much identified with the Rush song Working Man.


Now retired, if I just look at income, we are at poverty level.
Income does not mean everything. We are still middle class.



And a lot of rich people have no class at all. Some are downright nasty.

 

[COcheesehead]

Copied from post #11- maybe I interpreted what the person is saying incorrectly.
“‘Class' denotes behavior. There is no intrinsic correlation between income level and class, i.e. behavior.”

I said nothing about changing the terms lower class, middle class, etc so…

Eating ramen because you are broke is not the type of generational behavior that I was referring to regarding people who live in poverty.

That’s all I’m going to say at this point.

Ramen is actually a fantastic dish and we enjoy it often. Ramen noodles by themselves on the other hand, which is probably what you meant is just a bowl of carbs.

 

[Irishgirlyc58]

Ramen is actually a fantastic dish and we enjoy it often. Ramen noodles by themselves on the other hand, which is probably what you meant is just a bowl of carbs.

Is there a point to this?
I don’t like either so to me all you are doing is nitpicking.
Any particular reason for that?

 

[Amethyst]

I took it as, he likes ramen and is trying to educate the rest of us about its nutritional goodness (as opposed to Cup A Noodles). I didn't take it as criticism of your post. A lot of us here are nitpicky, it's part of the culture.

Is there a point to this?
I don’t like either so to me all you are doing is nitpicking.
Any particular reason for that?

 

[Gumby]

Who would guess that ramen noodles could provoke a spat?

 

[COcheesehead]

Who would guess that ramen noodles could provoke a spat?

Yea, noodle on that for a bit.

 

[Koolau]

Who would guess that ramen noodles could provoke a spat?

Heh, heh, except between DW and me.

 

[Walt34]

I always thought of myself as middle class, or working class.
Very much identified with the Rush song Working Man.

Now retired, if I just look at income, we are at poverty level.
Income does not mean everything. We are still middle class.

And a lot of rich people have no class at all. Some are downright nasty.

My ex said that I had no class. But then, she'd married me, so I guess that means she didn't either. Or maybe I was a reformation project that didn't work out.

 

[MC Rider]

My ex said that I had no class. But then, she'd married me, so I guess that means she didn't either. Or maybe I was a reformation project that didn't work out.

That reformation trick never works.

 

[Bullwinkle]

Who would guess that ramen noodles could provoke a spat?

Well ACTUALLY "men" means noodles so "ramen noodles" is redundant. Psh, get with the program people. Using words wrong!

As for my class, I figure it must be dual magic-user / bard. That would explain I never seem to have enough experience points to go up a level.

 

[palomalou]

Used Firecalc as income

As I am retired, I put what both Firecalc and I-Orp say we could spend. We don't spend it now, but if we wanted to, we could. It does think we are middle class, even living in Manhattan.

 

[Koolau]

As I am retired, I put what both Firecalc and I-Orp say we could spend. We don't spend it now, but if we wanted to, we could. It does think we are middle class, even living in Manhattan.

Now that's impressive to be middle class in Manhattan. I love Manhattan (visiting) and always wondered what it would be like to live there.

 

[Rianne]

We are middle-lower class in spending. But are in the top 5% NW. Maybe 1%, I'm not sure where those lines are.

 

[Koolau]

We are middle-lower class in spending. But are in the top 5% NW. Maybe 1%, I'm not sure where those lines are.

I think 1% is somewhat north of $10 mil from recent reading. 5% maybe $2 mil or so.? Can't really recall. Just as long as you have enough, you're golden.

 

[Rianne]

I think 1% is somewhat north of $10 mil from recent reading. 5% maybe $2 mil or so.? Can't really recall. Just as long as you have enough, you're golden.

I just looked it up. Average NW doesn't give a good picture. Median NW is more accurate.

"While the average net worth is upward of $700,000, the median net worth tells a very different story. Calculated this way, the typical American family has a net worth of $121,700. The median, or middle value in a set of numbers, is less sensitive to outliers, so may be a more accurate representation of a typical family. The median shows a very different reality for Americans, and we've included both numbers in this look at American families' finances."

Go to Page 5. Granted, this was 2020.

https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2022/demo/p70br-181.pdf

We're slightly 3M+ which seems average on this forum but compared to the rest of the country, pretty well off.

 

[rothlev]

Is there a point to this?
I don’t like either so to me all you are doing is nitpicking.
Any particular reason for that?

I think you are the one nitpicking .

 

[jazz4cash]

We are middle-lower class in spending. But are in the top 5% NW. Maybe 1%, I'm not sure where those lines are.

I’m thinking if I were in your position I would describe it as lower-middle vs middle-lower class. Did you really intend to say you are lower class in spending? The calculator only knows income so I guess it assumes you are spending and saving within some average ratios.

 

[GenXguy]

I’m thinking if I were in your position I would describe it as lower-middle vs middle-lower class. Did you really intend to say you are lower class in spending? The calculator only knows income so I guess it assumes you are spending and saving within some average ratios.

The calculator bases the class on income, so it doesn't need to assume anything about spending.