Backup for laptop??

[ERD50]

When I was using a 250 G SSD, I found (from this forum) the best backup for me was to clone the SSD to another SSD.
I was able to quickly test the clone worked by opening my box, unplugging my original SSD and plug in the new SSD. Then boot up.

I did this to also upgrade from Linux 16 to 18 , made my clone, ensured it worked. then upgraded the "better" of the two SSD's, knowing if it corrupted/failed in upgrade. I could clone again and still have 2 copies of my drive.

I also do tar file backups (compressed backups) of my data files every week or two to some encrypted flash drives.

That's certainly workable, though less convenient than what I could do on my old Macs, just re-boot and make a keyboard selection (not sure if they still support this - Apple has a tendency to "improve" things in ways I don't like).

But that reminds me - when I get around to shopping for a new laptop to put Linux on, I want to make sure it is easy to get to and replace the drive. (and memory).

-ERD50

 

[ncbill]

I don't bother paying the premium for an external USB 3 SSD over an external USB 3 hard drive just for backup, though my backups (Mac) are bootable.

 

[mountainsoft]

A good question to ask yourself when you backup is, what would I restore if things went south?

In my case this is just "The contents of my Documents and Pictures folders". That represents Word documents, PDFs, and photos that I care enough about to have put somewhere and named.

Everything else I clearly couldn't care less about, by definition. I can download and reinstall most of the software I have on there. If, after my computer dies and I get a new one, I fail to download some utility because I can't remember that I had it, well, I probably didn't need it.

Sure, I "could" reinstall Windows, reinstall all my applications, and get everything setup the way I had it. But that process takes a LOT of time and effort, and you never get back to where you originally had things. I've done that several times, it's no fun.

Restoring from a backup is so much faster and easier and everything is setup exactly the way you had it before.

For most people if you have more than 15GB of documents then they probably aren't all that important anyway

15GB is nothing! Just a few examples of folders on my hard drive:

Family photos is 95GB.
Home videos is 213GB.
Owners manuals, magazine clippings, etc. is 19GB.
Website files is 15GB.
Financial records is 11GB.
Music and personal audio files is 22GB.

Those are all irreplaceable files I could not download or reinstall from anywhere else. A backup is the only protection I have.

Of course, those don't include files I generate daily (recording TV shows can easily result in 10GB-50GB per day), or thousands of other files that I might be able to replace but it would take a lot of time and effort.

Word documents and PDF's are a very small part of the data I need to back up.

 

[jim584672]

Thanks for that info. For me, that is not ideal - if I have to restore to use the image, it's pretty hard to test that image. That means wiping out my original, just to test it right? So if the image is hosed up (or more likely, I screw up something), I'm now dead in the water.

That's why I'd like to be able to create the image, and re-boot into it w/o changing anything on my system, other than pointing to it.

In Linux, the GRUB boot loader (GRand Unified Boot-loader) seems needlessly complex and inflexible (or I just don't understand/appreciate it), as it doesn't allow you to boot from that image (because the UUIDs are also cloned, so create a conflict), and updating it seems ticky and can leave you with an unbootable system until you fix it with a LIVE CD/USB. I've read about the ways to change the UUID on the clone, but I think I only got it to work once, and it was pretty involved.

I've resolved myself too just backing up the data. Fortunately, reinstalling Linux is pretty painless, and I've documented my apps/set up (but are out of date now!). And I haven't had a need to reinstall the system anyhow, so it hasn't mattered (yet!).
-ERD50

I have never run into the problem you described. I have a dual boot Linux/Win10 (2 drives). Clonezilla image either drive saves the entire disk (bit for bit) so when it gets restored it acts exactly the same. Clonezilla goes on a bootable USB disk, so if you are using Win10 you may need a program called Rufus to write the .iso to the USB drive and make it bootable.

 

[ERD50]

I have never run into the problem you described. I have a dual boot Linux/Win10 (2 drives). Clonezilla image either drive saves the entire disk (bit for bit) so when it gets restored it acts exactly the same. Clonezilla goes on a bootable USB disk, so if you are using Win10 you may need a program called Rufus to write the .iso to the USB drive and make it bootable.

Maybe I didn't describe the issue well enough, or maybe you do have a solution. Let me break it down more precisely, so I can learn what I might be doing wrong then:

****EDIT*** I re-read your comment, and I think I see the disconnect - you said "when it gets restored" - that's my issue - I want to test it before I restore it to my system.

If the clone is bad - I just wiped out my system *AND* I have a bad clone! Now I'm in trouble. I want to test that clone w/o messing up my current running system /****EDIT****


A: I'm booting/running (for example), Xubuntu 18.04, from my internal laptop drive.

B: I use some tool to image/clone Xubuntu 18.04 from my internal laptop drive to an external USB drive. All is good so far.

C: HERE IS MY ISSUE: How do I now boot that external clone to test it? It has the same UUID as the internal (it is a clone), and IIRC, the boot-loader either gets confused when it sees two drives with the same UUID and locks up or quits, or just picks one or the other outside of my control (I don;t recall which, but it didn't work for me).

The only ways I know of are:

A) remove the internal drive (and maybe also refresh GRUB?) so it sees the external (and then refresh GRUB again to see the internal when I switch back?), or ..

B) Jump through some hoops to change the UUID of the clone (and maybe also refresh GRUB to see the new UUID?), so I can choose either one at boot.

Not the end of the world, with a verify I should be able to have confidence in the clone, and if my internal really did crash, I'd be doing a recovery and there would not be two identical UUIDs to cause any problem, so it should boot just fine. But I really miss the Apple method of clone, reboot with option key, and select any boot-able system it finds. That was easy/convenient.

So how can I boot from my clone w/o removing my internal drive?

-ERD50

 

[jim584672]

C: HERE IS MY ISSUE: How do I now boot that external clone to test it? It has the same UUID as the internal (it is a clone), and IIRC, the boot-loader either gets confused when it sees two drives with the same UUID and locks up or quits, or just picks one or the other outside of my control (I don;t recall which, but it didn't work for me).

-ERD50

The only real way to test the backed up image is to have another spare drive that you can restore it to. You would need to use the Clonezilla USB drive to start, have it do a restore to the new drive. It should be an exact copy.

You will have problems if two exact drives are on the same system at the same time. One of the drives would need to be removed.

 

[ERD50]

The only real way to test the backed up image is to have another spare drive that you can restore it to. You would need to use the Clonezilla USB drive to start, have it do a restore to the new drive. It should be an exact copy.

You will have problems if two exact drives are on the same system at the same time. One of the drives would need to be removed.

Exactly my issue. That's a little bit of work with a laptop with a single internal drive.

Hmmmm, is there a way to make a change in the BIOS, so I could temporarily ignore the internal drive for booting? Looks like there may be, I'll have to look into the BIOS on my laptop:

https://www.techwalla.com/articles/how-to-turn-off-an-internal-hard-drive

GRUB might still be confused though, I know I get confused trying to understand GRUB.

Back when I questioned this on a Linux forum, I got some Linux fans upset by suggesting that Apple did this better. Some said I should just re-install, it's easy, or that I was trying to reinvent the wheel (no - I wanted to replicate the wheel that Apple invented!), or that I was just a bad person ( OK, I may have imagined that one).

But the Apple method worked so well, and GRUB seems so convoluted, I just don;t get it. Oh well, that's getting OT, but I will try out this BIOS method to see if I can get that to boot a clone w/o removing my internal drive.

Thanks for tweaking my thinking on this. This might be the solution I've been looking for.

-ERD50

 

[Sunset]

My issue now, is I upgraded to a 1 T SSD, and now don't have a clone drive ...

I'm still backing up my data, while I ponder to get another SSD or clone to a 1 T regular HD just for the backup factor .

 

[mountainsoft]

If the hardware is different the drivers will not work. If it did work you would lose Win 10 license activation since it checks the hardware.

It wouldn't apply to a laptop, but on my desktop machine I have one drive for Windows and the program files, and a second drive for all of my personal data. I make a separate image backup for each drive.

For most situations (drive failure, virus corruption, accidental erasures, etc.) I can simply restore the image back to the drive and be up and running again.

If I change the motherboard and CPU I would need to go through the long process of reinstalling Windows and all programs. But I can easily restore my personal data back to the second drive (though my personal data drive should already be ready to use with the new hardware).

 

[albireo13]

Luckily, my personal data isn't that large. I don't keep much in photos on my laptop, and have no videos stored.
We have an iMac as our main computer and I have a dedicated external HDD backing that up. That's where we keep our photos.

My laptop is a Lenovo Yoga C940 14" screen. It has 12GB RAM and 512GB SSD.
I love it. So far I am using 74GB of the 512GB SSD. Most of that is apps and my data files are about 3GB.

I have been using OneDrive so far for backing up my data files since I get 5G free. I see that not being enough pretty soon though.

 

[misanman]

"If you have not tested your back up, assume you do not have a back up".

Years ago, when I was working, we sold a large tape-based backup solution to a medium-sized customer. They were very happy with how fast the backups were running until they went through a test restore of their backups and found that a major database wasn't part of the backup scheme. (Their fault, not ours). They came back to us to buy more capacity because they couldn't stay within their backup window anymore. Turns out they never told the user group that the database wasn't backed up, only that they needed more capacity "because they were backing up more data". On a personal basis I was using a cloud-based backup system a few years ago. It worked great until I had a failure and tried to restore and it turned out to be a nightmare. Systems are better today but I second the recommendation to actually test your backup!

 

[jim584672]

If you ever need to reinstall Windows 10 the .iso can be downloaded from Microsoft: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10

The reinstall will auto reactivate your license.

Also it is good to have your data encrypted. I use Veracrypt (Win10/Linux) to create encrypted containers for the backups. A worst case situation is a house theft where the thief gets your computer and all your accounts and personal data.

 

[Richard4444]

FWIW, I have a backup program named: Ibackup ... nothing to with Apple.
My IT neighbor set it up, the first backup took a few hours and every daily backup since has only taken 2 minutes while I use the computer anyway. Well, my hard drive got fried once from the cable line somehow and I had nothing. It was very unsettling. I bought a new computer, my IT neighbor came over and restored IBackup and just like magic, everything was there like it had been !
I know there are a few backup systems like this, and I recommend that you do backup automatically.

Rich

 

[ERD50]

While having a drive connected to a network for automatic backups is convenient, I fear that a power glitch, or maybe a virus gets in, it might destroy both the computer and the back up. Yikes!

For that reason, I prefer to backup to a removable device, and then set that on the shelf (and occasionally put one off-site).

-ERD50

 

[easysurfer]

I view backups similar to password management. I don't want to have a system too cumbersome to use, yet at the same time need one that doesn't fail.

 

[mountainsoft]

While having a drive connected to a network for automatic backups is convenient, I fear that a power glitch, or maybe a virus gets in, it might destroy both the computer and the back up. Yikes!

For that reason, I prefer to backup to a removable device, and then set that on the shelf (and occasionally put one off-site).

While that is true, it's also true that the best backup is the one that actually gets done. You're more likely to need to recover a file you accidentally deleted, overwrote, or otherwise changed from the last day or two. The odds of a power glitch or virus is much lower.

I backup nightly (while I'm sleeping) so physically connecting and disconnecting the drive to backup is not an option. I don't think I would have the dedication to do that every day, and less frequent backups wouldn't offer as much protection. A lot of things change on my computer each day.

So, I backup to an external USB hard drive that is always connected. This ensures I always have a recent backup. This covers the vast majority of situations I would need to recover files from. To protect against power glitches, viruses, fire, theft, floods, etc. I swap my backup drive with a second drive I keep in our safe deposit box about once a month. If the worst case should happen, I would lose up to a month of data but that's better than losing everything.

 

[old medic]

I have a Western Digital Elements 2TB external hard drive that backs up my MacBook Pro through Apple's Time Machine.

Just got the same one since our old External drive got full.

 

[jollystomper]

While having a drive connected to a network for automatic backups is convenient, I fear that a power glitch, or maybe a virus gets in, it might destroy both the computer and the back up. Yikes!

For that reason, I prefer to backup to a removable device, and then set that on the shelf (and occasionally put one off-site).

-ERD50

Unless you live in a location that constantly loses power, odds of this happening are nigh to impossible. I have been doing network backups going on close to 20 years, this has never happened, even when we would experience power outages several times a month during the summer (a situation the power company has long fixed).



I also keep all oy my computing and electronic devices on UPS devices, since doing that I have never lost any hardware or electronic device.

 

[ERD50]

Unless you live in a location that constantly loses power, odds of this happening are nigh to impossible. I have been doing network backups going on close to 20 years, this has never happened, even when we would experience power outages several times a month during the summer (a situation the power company has long fixed).


I also keep all oy my computing and electronic devices on UPS devices, since doing that I have never lost any hardware or electronic device.

Yet!

Sure, I realize it is unlikely, but that's what backups are all about. Though this got me thinking, I should reverse my policy, and keep a a back up on the network live, and keep one off line, just in case. The off line backup is less convenient, and therefore gets done less often. But having an offline backup a few days or weeks old would be far better than nothing if disaster struck the network.

-ERD50

 

[easysurfer]

The power went out about a week ago. Had my PC on UPS backup so that kicked right in. The UPS did what it was supposed to do. Well worth the investment and peace of mind .

 

[jollystomper]

Yet!

Sure, I realize it is unlikely, but that's what backups are all about. Though this got me thinking, I should reverse my policy, and keep a a back up on the network live, and keep one off line, just in case. The off line backup is less convenient, and therefore gets done less often. But having an offline backup a few days or weeks old would be far better than nothing if disaster struck the network.

-ERD50

No "Yet" . Before I put in the UPS devices I lost several pieces of AV electronics. At one point I was running 15 computer servers and half a dozen laptops. Since putting in and maintaining the UPS devices over 10 years ago I have lost nothing, nada. These are solid, APC UPS devices.

Before the UPS devices I lost a motherboard. Once. But the hard drive and data was fine.

Reversing your policy may be a good thing. I keep three levels of backups, home network, offline in home, offline offsite. I use "the cloud" for a small subset of critical data.

 

[target2019]

I have Lenovo laptop with 512G SSD storage. I use it for mostly documents and streaming video. So far I have not backed it up. I don't need to backup a disc image, mostly just data.
I figure

What do folks like to use for laptop backup solutions?

Backup solutions are independent of computer form (laptop, desktop, etc.). If you have limited ports (phone or tablet), then you have narrower choices.

Thanks all.
I think I will get a USB external HD and do image backups to that. In addition, I will backup data and files to the cloud. I have Dropbox for that.

This is what I do, but with a local drive to backup data. Cloud backup for data is acceptable.

Not sure how effective an image would be.
If my laptop died in a year or so, I might likely be replacing it with a different model.
Same OS .... WIN10 but, HW configuration would be different.

Would the image be bootable in a different laptop?

It would be bootable, but you will certainly have problems to solve insofar as the image will likely not have the proper configuration for new system. But as others have mentioned you can make additional images along the way which help greatly if restoring your current system.

for disk image backup I am thinking of getting a 1TB USB3.0 Flash Drive.
Any reason to go with a HDD over a Flash Drive for this?

Thx

I wouldn't bother with old HDD technology. I would get USB 3.0 SSD in external drive for image(s).

 

[albireo13]

Would a USB thumb drive work for making a bootable image?
Not sure if there are any "gotchas" in a thumb drive vs. an external SSD in an enclosure.

 

[Sunset]

Thumb drives can have slower speeds than an SSD, since they have to squeeze the size. Also some thumb drives get burning hot.

 

[gauss]

While having a drive connected to a network for automatic backups is convenient, I fear that a power glitch, or maybe a virus gets in, it might destroy both the computer and the back up. Yikes!

For that reason, I prefer to backup to a removable device, and then set that on the shelf (and occasionally put one off-site).

-ERD50

What about having 2 separate backup devices where only one is connected at any one time?

Maybe have device A connected to do the backups for the odd numbered months and device B conected to do the backups for the even numbered months.