Charitable donations pre- and post-FI/RE

REWahoo! said:
I posted earlier in this thread that my son-in-law had organized volunteers for a barbeque cookout for 1,000 evacuees at a shelter this weekend.  He got a call from the Red Cross today telling him they were cancelling all such events.  To quote the Red Cross spokesman: "The only donation we're accepting is money and suitcases to get these people out of here."

My first thought was they needed to move them to make room in the shelter for Hurricane Rita evacuees.  But my SIL got the distinct impression the Red Cross was simply ready for the remaining shelter residents to get out and get on with their lives. 

Guess a well seasoned hot plate of BBQ might encourage them to hang around longer? :-\

Sounds to me like Barbara Bush gave the Red Cross a call :)

JG
 
Austin_Explorer said:
Whatever lets you guys sleep at night.  Go for it.  But don't try and convince me that I should admire your principled stand, because I don't.  I'm sure the folks who lost everything, some including their loved ones, appreciate the "charity" you've already shown.

Give or don't give.  I don't give a d*#n, but spare us the self righteousness.

BTW, I am from New Orleans.  My dad lives there and rode out the storm and managed to get on a relief flight plane while New Orleans was still under water.  I have about a dozen relatives who have varying degrees of loss from a bit of water and wind damage to complete and total submersion.

I, personally, am a bit disgruntled with the large-tragedy, telethon, charity-concert, group-hug, emotional trap the country, and the media has fallen into. Katrina is a tragedy on a large scale. And every day families and individuals have equally as large tragedies on a small scale. Is the individual who lost their home to flood waters in New Orleans any more deserving of our sympathy than the individual who lost their home to fire on the same day somewhere else in the country?

My feeling on this has grown ever stronger after 9/11. I work in NYC and commute through the World Trade Center every day. I had friends who worked in that building who did not come home. I went to their funerals and donated to their children's college funds. Like many others, I gave generously to 9/11 relief charities of all kinds. At the time I didn't really consider the magnitude of all the resources earmarked for this single tragedy.

About a year or two ago I run into "Suzie", a college friend in her early 30's who lost her husband (also a college friend) in the 2nd WTC building. Neither she nor her husband were wealthy, but she had not worked a single day since 9/11. She informed me that she had just closed on the purchase of a $700,000 brownstone in the same town in which I live. To my knowledge she has still not held a job in five years.

Many people may view this as crass, but I couldn't help but wonder if my contribution to "Suzie's" daughter's college fund wouldn't have been better spent somewhere else. And then I began to wonder how many other charities saw their contributions decrease after 9/11 as people, institutions, and governments, redirected their giving to that single endevor.

Austin, I am sorry for your family's hardship. Truly I am. But I personally will not be giving to any "Hurricane Katrina" relief efforts. I suspect that the $200 billion estimated Federal spending ($400,000 per New Orleans resident) when combined with State spending and private donations will more than adequately cover the need. This year I plan to direct my giving to other charities, like Doctor's Without Boarders, that may have more difficulty raising money in Katrina's wake.
 
. . . Yrs to Go said:
...This year I plan to direct my giving to other charities, like Doctor's Without Boarders, that may have more difficulty raising money in Katrina's wake.

They should have realized it would be easier to raise money if they would just agree to rent out some rooms... :LOL:
 
Yrs, it's a good point, it's why we've held back so far. I have trepidation wrt the Red Cross military industrial complex. I'm waiting to see what charity is doing the most good and/or is having the most trouble keeping contributions up. People tend to get charity fatigue once the stars go away and the confetti gets cleaned up. :-\
 
All right, now I'm confused, weren't you lamenting having to live a lie just to get along with everyone else and go with the crowd where you live re: religion? Earlier you attributed your success in large part to your ability to tell people what they want to hear and blend in. You said this was a needed evil. Have you since come out of the closet? I would think your freedom of (non)religion being trampled by your coworkers/associates would be a fine opportunity to stand up for yourself, and a critical time to do it.

Ahh good point Laurence! Let me clarify what probably goes without saying for most; Standing up for yourself, but not in a recklass fashion.

Standing/speaking up for myself/having courage/ being proactive got me 1. Into the Air Force Academy 2. Full tuitition remission at Baylor 3. My first job 4. The job I have now. 5. My wife.

Just 5 things there, but boy are those big ones! I wont even begin to list the myraids of smaller things.
 
My rant, and I'll admit that it was that, was not to get money for my family (we don't need it), but to call to attention that there are many who have lost everything and now have nothing but the clothes on their back.

I guess that's what happens when you dont have flood insurance.   

I'm trying to imagine how low one's IQ score would have to be to not make sure your home policy doesnt have flood insurance living in New Orleans.   I dont know the exact number, but its going to be 80 max.

I'll admit right now it is very difficult for me to feel compassionate about non-proactive, living-in-the-moment, ignorant, and ungrateful people (reference to the bulk of the new orleans people focusing on what wasn't being done for them, instead of the good things that were being done).   

Proactive planners who are intelligent weren't even in New Orleans, and of course they had flood insurance.   Grateful people always focus on the good things that happen.  Ungrateful people dont.   Anyone can find something to complain about at anytime.  The choice is whether you're going to do so or not, and THAT is what identifies character.
 
I think AzAnon has accurately described who he is, whether intentional or not.

I'm equally impressed by your 3 dollar contribution.   

750 million dollars has been given to Katrina (by the public), 250 million live in the US.   Do the math, sweetheart.
 
azanon said:
Ahh good point Laurence! Let me clarify what probably goes without saying for most; Standing up for yourself, but not in a recklass fashion.

Standing/speaking up for myself/having courage/ being proactive got me 1. Into the Air Force Academy 2. Full tuitition remission at Baylor 3. My first job 4. The job I have now. 5. My wife.

Just 5 things there, but boy are those big ones! I wont even begin to list the myraids of smaller things.

I would think the reasons for your list above would be 1. working your a** off 2. Continuing to benefit from 1 after finding out you weren't Air Force material 3. Having a strong resume 4. 3 plus work experience 5. I hope love was involved. :-\

So basically you are saying you stand up for yourself/what's right only if it's not inconvenient or as long as there is something in it for you. Courage is doing the right thing regardless of the cost. Nothing against the law about being pragmatic and calculating, just don't hurt yourself patting yourself on the back there.
 
I would think the reasons for your list above would be 1. working your a** off 2. Continuing to benefit from 1 after finding out you weren't Air Force material 3. Having a strong resume 4. 3 plus work experience 5. I hope love was involved.

I can tell you've never made it into a service academy.   Yes, working your ass off making grades and being in every club imaginable helps, but still you need this thing call a "nomination" from a Senator or representative, and yes, as you can suspect, that is best done by being proactive.   You also have to win the heart of your liason officer, since he's the one that's going to speak up for you when it comes to who he recommends for appointment by the service academy. We had the LO over for steak at our house. ;-)

Both my first job and the job i have now i got, above and beyond anything else, because i called/met the Supervisor and told them why i was the best candidate.   I realize that flies in the face of what some books say to do.  Those books are wrong.    Everything else was just extra.   No piece of paper represents me as well as I do myself.

Actually, i dont even understand love.  I caught my wife the day i had the courage to come up and introduce myself.   That was the only significant barrier i ever remember crossing.  After that, it was gravy.    I married my wife because the sex was so good, and i didnt want to see it end.   Oh yeah, we became good friends too; still are.

I wasn't Air Force academy material at the time;  just "Air force" material means any high school D student that knows how to put one foot in front of the other, and make an asfab score slighly higher than a monkey could make.   I was outstanding in basic training, but the elite school that is the AFA kicked my ass and, no, my really poor AA high school did not prepare me for that.

So basically you are saying you stand up for yourself/what's right only if it's not inconvenient or as long as there is something in it for you.  Courage is doing the right thing regardless of the cost. Nothing against the law about being pragmatic and calculating, just don't hurt yourself patting yourself on the back there.

Yes, that's exactly what i'm saying.   As ive said once now, i'm not for recklass courage.  You can go to that national cemetary and see thousands of tombstones marking the graves of recklassly couragous people.  What in the hell is logical about being that kind of courageous?     

Who was it, Patton that said that the object of war is not to die for your country, but make the other bastard die for his.   I'm for self-protection/self-preservation above all else.

....

You guys ever hear of Tony (Anthony) Robbins?  I think the guys great;  one of them motivational speaker.  I'm all on board with the guy.  So much of success really is superficial; meaning powerful decisions really are made in an instant.  You can decide to be successful, act on it, and man on man can you go a long ways by just taking the reigns with a firm grip and making great things happen. 

Success doesnt come by saying nothing, and handing over a transcript with A's on it!   doh!
 
You guys ever hear of Tony (Anthony) Robbins? I think the guys great; one of them motivational speaker.

- yah, he was hilarious in "Shallow Hal". :LOL:
 
Gosh, this has turned into quite the stress-inducing thread.

I don't think you can force charity, it is a feeling in your heart that you want to do something for others. It may be time or money or a combination, but if you do something grudgingly (is that a word?) then it may not even be worth it.

Of course, being the bleeding heart that I am, I couldn't live with myself if I didn't at least give some of the money that I have accumulated to those less fortunate, but I do not believe in tithing ~ it is an individual choice. In fact, I resent anyone that tells (preaches) to others that they MUST give.

I guess we mostly subscribe to the Buffet philosophy, since our wills call for 90% of our net worth to go to various charities, but we give along the way as well, especially now since DH's company matches donations (sometimes 2 to 1) I think it will be a mistake to do away with the estate tax since in my law practice I found that many people close to the edge of paying the tax would give more to charity (they would rather the money go to charity that be paid to taxes)

Anyway, as far as whether we will continue to give once we are both ERed, only time will tell if it is at the same rate, but I don't think we will be able to stop ourselves from giving some.

BTW, the American Kennel Club (AKC) is collecting donations to help the animal survivors of Katrina and they are eating all the administrative costs, so 100% goes to rescue efforts. :)
 
I mention the animal charity, cause even Az can't blame them for not evacuating!
 
I'm just turning into a regular JG here, but one more thing...

Maybe I am the way I am because I went to college on a full scholarship funded by an alumna of my college. Some may feel that this wasn't charity and I did it by my own self. I feel, however, that someone gave me a start that helped me to accomplish (accumulate) more than I ever thought possible and maybe I can pass that along somehow.
 
I mention the animal charity, cause even Az can't blame them for not evacuating!

Unless the money is going exclusively towards the cost of putting them to sleep, i'm not interested.   There are far too many pets in the world.   

I have a particular distaste for cats, especially feral cats.   Cats indiscriminately kill anything and everything they can get their paws on, and a well-fed house cat can kill just about anything.  To say they are efficient killers would be a considerable understatement.  In addition, feral cats spread and harbor disease. I believe there was a 20/20 on this specific subject (or maybe it was a 48 hrs or dateline, i dont remember).
 
But Az, please dont send me to the gas chamber!
 

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Maybe they will do a 20/20 on Grade 12 government workers who spend their work hours on internet message boards. I've recently come to the conclusion that we may have too many of those around.
 
Maybe they will do a 20/20 on Grade 12 government workers who spend their work hours on internet message boards.  I've recently come to the conclusion that we may have too many of those around.

As if that's worse than an ER, who has nothing better to do than to hang out on a dumbass messageboard during the middle of the day.   How pathetic.   Go buy yourself a life.

Where did you work when you did anyway?  I have several friends in the private sector too, one who just recently graduated from an elite engineering school who went to work for Northrup Grunnman.  His first remark to me about his first real job was "i now know why our economy's going down the tube;  people here bs for like 3 hrs a day".

I can do more work in 4 hrs than the average government employee can do in 8.  Give me 3 years, i'll be a 13.   Give me 10, i'll be a 14.   These are conservative goals.

You guys keep picking on how i spend my 2, 15-minute legal breaks at work, i'm going to keep pointing out how you have no life hanging out here in the middle of the day.

(edit)  p.s.   It took me about a minute to type this.   I type 90wpm
 
But Az, please dont send me to the gas chamber!

hehe, cute. Its hard to believe something so cute grows up into such an efficient, indiscriminate killer.
 
azanon said:
You guys keep picking on how i spend my 2, 15-minute legal breaks at work, i'm going to keep pointing out how you have no life hanging out here in the middle of the day.

(edit) p.s. It took me about a minute to type this. I type 90wpm

Let's not forget the umteen paid days off a year a federal worker gets. ;)

LL
 
Yes.

Look, i prefer not to take jabs of this type. But I know for sure i'm not the only paid employee that posts here on occasion during the day. There are many days i'm so busy i neither post or read here. I guess that would be like a lot of jobs!

So, if you insist on calling it like it is, you know me well enough that i'm going to turn around and do the same thing. And i promise you it isn't going to feel good when i do it.

Anyway, you talked about the stress here (forgot your name), then you turn around and create some more of it.
 
azanon said:
I can tell you've never made it into a service academy.   Yes, working your ass off making grades and being in every club imaginable helps, but still you need this thing call a "nomination" from a Senator or representative, and yes, as you can suspect, that is best done by being proactive.   You also have to win the heart of your liason officer, since he's the one that's going to speak up for you when it comes to who he recommends for appointment by the service academy.   We had the LO over for steak at our house.  ;-)

I wasn't Air Force academy material at the time;  just "Air force" material means any high school D student that knows how to put one foot in front of the other, and make an asfab score slighly higher than a monkey could make.   I was outstanding in basic training, but the elite school that is the AFA kicked my ass and, no, my really poor AA high school did not prepare me for that.

Yes, that's exactly what i'm saying.   As ive said once now, i'm not for recklass courage.  You can go to that national cemetary and see thousands of tombstones marking the graves of recklassly couragous people.  What in the hell is logical about being that kind of courageous?     

Who was it, Patton that said that the object of war is not to die for your country, but make the other bastard die for his.   I'm for self-protection/self-preservation above all else.
Az, ol' buddy, I think you need to lighten yourself up a little.  Laurence knows at least one other service-academy attendee pretty well and frankly, between you two I appreciate his perspective better. 

Congressional nominations are but one of several ways to get into a service academy.  For example, children active-duty parents or Reservists or retirees are eligible for presidential appointments that make up 100 slots per academy per class.  (A typical USNA plebe class is about 1200-1300 people.)  Fleet enlisted can make up another 10% of the nominations.  Minorities (including women) are aggressively recruited by the academies themselves.  And anyone who can throw a football 70 yards is welcome to call the USNA Candidate Guidance office to see if a miracle happens.  (Don't tell the NCAA that I said this.)  Dozens who miss out on their first service-academy screening are offered full scholarships to Naval Academy Prep School (NAPS) or other civilian colleges to bring up their grades and try again the following year.  They don't have to start all over again with Congressional nominations.  As far as I'm aware, none of these methods require bribing LOs with steak dinners.  I'm shipmates & friends with several USNA LOs ("Blue & Gold Officers) and I think they'd be pretty amused by your insinuations.

There's nothing logical about reckless courage, unless it's sacrificing oneself for the benefit of others.  I guess you could also call it altruism.  You're focusing on their graves, but I think it's more appropriate to focus on the thousands of people who are alive today thanks to those "reckless" dead.  I know many more living veterans, including several Vietnam-era POWs, who also exhibited reckless courage for the benefit of their shipmates.  The POWs will readily admit that they became POWs by their inadequate performance in the face of anti-aircraft missile fire, but they'll also be the first to sacrifice themselves for you-- whether you're worthy of that sacrifice or not.

Here's another example.  At least once a week I drive by the Kawamura Gate at Wheeler's Army Air Field.  After about six years of idle curiousity, I finally looked up the guy-- here's his citation.  I suspect that if he'd had a moment to think about what he was doing he would have continued to run away fast, but his "reckless courage" made a difference to at least two other soldiers and their families.  My kid asks to hear that story just about every time we drive by the gate.  I think it's better to honor his example for her than to make snide comments about his illogical recklessness.  If she persists in following her cousin to West Point then at least she'll have a better understanding of what could happen to her someday.

Patton's said a lot of things, and I thought this merited another sixty seconds of research.  "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.  He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."  I would speculate that the vast majority of those "reckless dead bastards" brought along an honor escort of "dumb bastards" to their next stop.  I looked at this Patton quote site for "self protection" and "self preservation" but I didn't find those words there.  Maybe they weren't very important to Patton.

While I'm all for a judicial dose of self-protection and self-preservation, I admit that I would much prefer to conclude my life as an illogical reckless corpse than to continue living it as someone who stood by & watched someone else lose their life.  I just hope I get to choose wisely.

Unlike posters who next read "Good talking with you, have a nice life" from me, you seem to be fairly bright & articulate.  Hopefully you have the character to go with those characteristics, because otherwise I'd sure hate to be working under or even near you when you execute your plans for GS-14 world domination.  You have the potential to be an even more positive influence on people than the negative example you've been setting so far.  What you do with that potential is up to you.

I'll let someone else tackle the subjects of puppies & kitties. 

Waddya know, Jarhead, I guess the sun rose today too...  Don't emulate my mistake of spending too much of your time on that MOH citation website.
 
We gave to the Animal rescue this year for Katrina, the folks that go around getting the dogs and cats that the "government and Red Cross" left behind. When we do give, we look VERY carefully at the charity numbers, and do NOT give to anyone where less than 90% of the donation goes towards the cause. It was not long ago that 911 occurred and remember the issues that surrounded the vitims getting any of the funds.

SWR
 
Az, ol' buddy, I think you need to lighten yourself up a little.

Just because you may be getting tense from my response doesn't mean i am.  Trust me, i enjoy this stuff.

Laurence knows at least one other service-academy attendee pretty well and frankly, between you two I appreciate his perspective better.

Everyone's entitled to an opinion.   

Congressional nominations are but one of several ways to get into a service academy.

Congressional nominations are the way most people get in.   I didn't go into the outliers.   If someone says they went to the academy, you could ask them which congressman sent them, and most likely you'll get a name shortly following.    Are you saying you assumed i was one of the exceptions?    BTW, as with most of the cadets, most minorities get in via vanilla congressional nominations just like everyone else, though some atheles are, of course, recruited via scholarship.    Also, those who get into the prep school were also most likely congressional nominations.    Nords, nominations come first, appointments might or might not come next.   Those who dont get directly into the academy sometimes make it into the prep school.   That process is independent of whether one got a congressional nominations or not.

Soilders are pawns of our leaders.   I personally dont believe killing each other is a good solution to solving problems.  I think it is a sad, last resort solution to solving problem that, when done, declairs to everyone loudly "I"m a failure, and now i'm going to solve my problem in the most barbaric and mindless way by killing people".   Yes, I understand you're likely in the narrow-minded majority that probably thinks it is a good solution to solving problems and you probably chuckled with glee like a little kid when the media on TV was talking about our "shock and awe".   I often find myself alone, tortured by logic that for some strange reason, most other people didn't get.    Some gifts can be lonely.

So you found a story about a soilder who saved two other soilders, all three of which were trying to kill someone else from another country?    Its as if you think those soilders, men, from those other countries also dont have families.   

Patton's said a lot of things, and I thought this merited another sixty seconds of research.  "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.  He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." .........  I looked at this Patton quote site for "self protection" and "self preservation" but I didn't find those words there.

So you dont think by that statement, Patton isn't recognizing the importance of living as being better than dying?   hehe, ok.   I know how I would have taken that advice!   

While I'm all for a judicial dose of self-protection and self-preservation, I admit that I would much prefer to conclude my life as an illogical reckless corpse than to continue living it as someone who stood by & watched someone else lose their life.  I just hope I get to choose wisely.

Well, if I ever see a stone with your name on it and a touching story to go along with it, i'll be sure and take the time to read it and momentarily reflect on your bravery.  As soon as i'm done, i'll continue going about living the only life i'm going to get.

Unlike posters who next read "Good talking with you, have a nice life" from me, you seem to be fairly bright & articulate.  Hopefully you have the character to go with those characteristics, because otherwise I'd sure hate to be working under or even near you when you execute your plans for GS-14 world domination.  You have the potential to be an even more positive influence on people than the negative example you've been setting so far.  What you do with that potential is up to you.

Nords, as i understand it, your reputation here isn't impeccable either.   I pride myself in honestly above all else.   You know for everyone one person here that admitted they dont give charity beyond taxes, there was probably 10 others that dont either, that lack both the honesty and courage to admit just the same.

If my goal was to people please, there's a good chance i'd be one of your favorites here.   I'm known at work as a really nice guy.   I can be anything i want to be with the blink of an eye. To use an analogy, in RL/work, i'm Garth Brooks. On these boards, i'm Chris Gaines.

I have plenty of character and I am a law abider.   In fact, my job is enforcing environmental law and I do that job quite well.   There are stories of men who do just atrocious things everywhere all around us.   I was just told yesterday of a story where men were dragging women out of the superdome at night, and raping/killing them.   Those are your horrible men.   I am a law abider and i harm no one.

I'll let someone else tackle the subjects of puppies & kitties.

There is no story.  There are too many "pets" and feral animals, fact and end of story.   It is literally either you realize that or you don't.   Yes, there's a population at large that doesnt understand things such as perscribed burns (where burning a forest is actually good for it) or having hunters go in and freely kill a deer population for its health.  That takes a level of dynamic some people just dont have.  Most  people would probably think they're helping the feral cat problem when they set a bowl of food outside their house or place of business when in fact, they're just helping propogate the spread of more disease and suffering.
 
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