Charlie says Adiós

[Cut-Throat]

Here's the problem I see.:

The current administration has been driving an agenda to destroy reform social security, to eliminate the current tax system in favor of an un-Fair Tax, to bankrupt drive up the defict of the government.  That's political, but it has huge implications for retirees.

And now, this same administration wants to fight a holy war in Iraq (driving the deficit even higher), to drive science from the schools in favor of their religious view of the world (destroying our future competitive advantage in technology), to require that federal judges agree with their religious views on abortion (leaving us with a future expensive social problem). 

So religion has been brought squarely into the politics that will affect all retirees.  We better talk about religion and politics, because that's what's going to do us in if we don't. 

Agree 100%. You cannot discuss Social Security or Pensions without bringing politics into it.

What is upsetting folks here is that the opinions expressed do not agree with their own. Most had little trouble expressing their own opinions on politics and religion. Such is the nature of life! When you cannot discuss differences you have WAR.

Also as Zipper said, Bob Smith's departure is a mystery and a totally different circumstance. He just quit posting and was not involved in any controversial posts at that time. I fear that something tragic may have happened to Bob. Hopefully something tragic just happened to his computer.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Yep, I do read, but as can be plainly seen, posting isnt going to be a regular thang.

Charlie, you're a gentleman and a fine contributor to this board. I'm sorry to see you go.

The problem here isnt as much the vagaries of discussing a topic, but the inability of some people to discuss a topic while respecting the other posters and their point of view.

Unfortunately some people have myopic and simplistic perspectives and have a hard time with people who can grasp and discuss complex topics. So they belittle and call names. This makes them a real asset to the community...

In my opinion, you kept your powder pretty dry Charlie. Something I had trouble doing.

 

[Dawg52]

On an earlier thread Martha warned:
---------------------------------------------------------------
Re: My God, Your God, or No God...Oh, God...
« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2005, 04:21:49 PM » 

"Careful all.  This is a topic that can easily lead  to hurt feelings or flame outs because religion is so personal."
---------------------------------------------------------------
That is exactly what happened. I'm not saying hot topics shouldn't be discussed, but let's face it........most people are not gonna change their opinion on such a personal topic as religion.  In response to Zipper, I'm glad Charlie gave his reason for leaving. At least we do not have to wonder what happened as we do with Bob Smith.

 

[REWahoo]

What is upsetting folks here is that the opinions expressed do not agree with their own.

This is true, but it goes beyond just differences of opinion. Sometimes it isn't what you say (I disagree with you), it's how you say it (You're wrong, you stupid @$#-&^*$!). In my opinion it is as much the tone as the substance of the post that ticks people off.

That said, the world is full of courteous people, *ssholes, and those in between. This forum is open to the world, and within reason we must should allow people to express themselves.

Also as Zipper said, Bob Smith's departure is a mystery and a totally different circumstance. He just quit posting and was not involved in any contoversial posts at that tie. I fear that something tragic may have happened to Bob. Hopefully something tragic just happened to his computer.

Or his family called in "The Happy Acres Institute for Better Living" to do an intervetion due to his addiction to the internet.

REW

 

[Cut-Throat]

Yep, I do read, but as can be plainly seen, posting isnt going to be a regular thang.

TH, Glad to hear from you.   I was on vacation when you departed and missed the fireworks.

 

[Marshac]

This is true, but it goes beyond just differences of opinion.  Sometimes it isn't what you say (I disagree with you), it's how you say it (You're wrong, you stupid @$#-&^*$!). 

One of the biggest things I have learned this year while living with my Chinese housemate is how to say "i'm sorry, but i'll have to disagree with you", and then to drop the conversation. I used to be the type of person who would keep arguing, and would always want the last word, but when both people believe passionately about something, last words are never 'last words', but merely parting shots. When debating someone, even over the faceless internet (even though we know what Nords looks like now), sometimes the best you can do is to call it a draw, and walk away.

Charlie, hopefully you will come back and visit us, and i'm sorry to see you go. For the sake of this board, I hope that you're the last to leave for a long while, but as the world continues to become more polarized, and without a corresponding increase in our collective civility, I fear that others may find your path appealing.

 

[Marshac]

Yep, I do read, but as can be plainly seen, posting isnt going to be a regular thang.

Yeah, when it takes 17 hours to respond, it's clearly obvious

 

[azanon]

What thread are you talking about - i rarely see religion discussed and only JG pushes his politics 

I find it difficult to respect thin-skinned people so, bu-bye!

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Charlie -

You've enjoyed a successful career, raised a family, put away a stash thats proved to be enough for you and your lovely wife to live off of for many decades, and provided good and even advice to this community.  Heck, your call on REITS a while back probably made me enough money that (with the miracle of compounding) will pay for a year or two or three of my kids college.

I'm sorry that your farewell is enjoined by absolutely worthless asshats like this who have done none of the things you have done. And most likely never will.

Good sailing buddy...

I find it difficult to respect thin-skinned people so, bu-bye!

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

TH, Glad to hear from you. I was on vacation when you departed and missed the fireworks.

And good to hear from you as well sir! I'll drop you an email tomorrow when I have more time.

I'm sure that some thought they were providing fireworks. Looked like farts in a mud puddle to me.

 

[Martha]

What thread are you talking about - i rarely see religion discussed and only JG pushes his politics

I find it difficult to respect thin-skinned people so, bu-bye!

People are thin skinned or thick skinned or a little of both. Not a quality one way or another to be respected for in my mind--it is not like being generous, polite, loving, etc.

Some examples of religious comments lately, without attribution, that Christians in particular could find offensive:

. . . . excellent posterboy for all you religious nuts

Yeah, gotta keep the Vatican encrusted in gold, just like Christ wanted!

I know that there are a lot of fruitcakes, but please try to keep them straight

I suspect this is some fundamentalist typical twisting of the language.

nteresting god you have there, Michael, one that is modeled on a preadoloscent emotional state

So I am going to continue to pester you because it gets ME ahead in my version of the divine scheme of things.

I think religion is a kind of mental disease that is inflicted upon children before they are capable of rational thought.

I think of it more as a form of laziness.

f Jesus actually did return . . . The group most likely to call for his 'capital punishment' would be the modern day Christian Right.

These are just a few from three separate threads on the Other Topics board.

I am not religious, but if you hear these kinds of comments about something that you hold near and dear to your heart, can you blame people for leaving? If people spent day after day slamming liberals as fuzzy thinking idiots, I might go too.

I just think we could try to be a bit more polite.

 

[sgeeeee]

I may be one of the posters that p#ssed Charlie off. I don't know that I am, and I didn't mean to do that, but I disagree with Charlie on almost every political issue ever discussed on these boards. I don't always try very hard to be diplomatic when I find other people's posts offensive, so other posters sometimes become irritated with me.

On the other hand, I don't storm off when other posters insult me. I either hold my ground or ignore the thread.

While it's unfortunate that Charlie has decided to leave, that's his choice. If his view of religion is important to him, the views of others may be no less important to them. If their views are objectionable to Charlie, his views may be objectionable to them. Charlie has no more right to kit gloves than anyone else.

Advising people of what issues they should or shouldn't discuss or how they might discuss them might appear to be condescending.

 

[wabmester]

I just think we could try to be a bit more polite.

We've had a few blow-ups on this board, but generally this has been a bastion of civility. I consider most of the "slams" you cited to be valid (but crude) rhetorical devices. I don't think the problem is lack of politeness. The problem is that some people are married to their ideas, and no amount of logic or rhetoric will sway them. And when two or more people with fixed ideas go at it, the predictable outcome is that one of them says "fine, I'm taking my ball and going home."

Personally, I don't think anything needs to change here. Let the blow-ups blow over. Maybe Charlie, TH, and Ted will come back when they feel the need to play ball with all of the crude but smart players here.

And, frankly, I find civility boring. Civility is for the working class. ER's need entertainment.

 

[MDW]

I've found many of the posts to be less interesting lately. I try to ignore the religious and political rants because they tend to be uncivil and often consist of more opinion than fact. I believe civility is a key element of a rich life - treat others as you wish to be treated is wisely valued as the golden rule.

Hang around Charlie, it's not difficult to sort the wheat from the chaff.

MDW

 

[Mr._johngalt]

What thread are you talking about - i rarely see religion discussed and only JG pushes his politics 

I find it difficult to respect thin-skinned people so, bu-bye!

Well, I must get a lot of respect then as hardly anything phases me
criticism-wise This forum is the only one I visit regularly which partly accounts for my ridiculously high post count. I think it is just terrific.
Lots of opinions and a good variety of mostly sharp people, with
just enough goofy off topic stuff to keep it interesting. However,
if you are easily offended you might need to reconsider. I'm not,
so I will probably hang in here as long as we have a computer.
I threatened recently to take a ball bat to it, but DW restraned me

JG

 

[moghopper]

On the other hand, I don't storm off when other posters insult me.  I either hold my ground or ignore the thread. 

Your medal is in the mail.

 

[Sheryl]

Having participated for an embarassingly long time (both in years on the net, and hours per day spent at it)  on a variety of boards and forums,  I would offer that this one has more interesting, intelligent, amusing people than most.   

Debates gone sour and troll invasions are inevitable.  The anonymous nature of the medium causes some people to say things they never would face to face, and even those who are blunt in the "real world" may go a step further here.

Couple that with the fact that innocuous or joking comments can easily be misread, or misinterpreted, even with the valuable addition of smiley explanations, and you are fairly certain to see people eventually storm off in a huff.

I've learned to skim or ignore threads that bore or irritate me.  Alternatively I'll type a scathing reply then just delete it rather than post.

Works for me. 

 

[brewer12345]

Yep, I do read, but as can be plainly seen, posting isnt going to be a regular thang.

Charlie, you're a gentleman and a fine contributor to this board.  I'm sorry to see you go.

The problem here isnt as much the vagaries of discussing a topic, but the inability of some people to discuss a topic while respecting the other posters and their point of view.

Unfortunately some people have myopic and simplistic perspectives and have a hard time with people who can grasp and discuss complex topics.  So they belittle and call names.  This makes them a real asset to the community...

In my opinion, you kept your powder pretty dry Charlie.  Something I had trouble doing.

Its a damn shame that TH and Charlie have been rustled off. Please reconsider, fellas. I think it is clear that many of us will miss your input. I can't realistically say that others will be more courteous, but maybe it is worth just not bothering to respond to certain, um, asshats.

I'm beggin' ya...

 

[wabmester]

I believe civility is a key element of a rich life

When the net was young, it was populated only by researchers and college students. Usenet was the "bbs" of the early net. Like here, it was usually a bastion of civility with several interesting threads of discussion. But every once in a while, somebody would get flamed to a crisp. Some people enjoyed the flamefests, but others found them rude and uncivil. So, alt.flame was created where you could go and flame somebody to a crisp without disrupting the normal flow of civil discourse.

Maybe that would work here. Try to keep the main threads civil, but create an outlet where anything goes.

 

[Mr._johngalt]

Its a damn shame that TH and Charlie have been rustled off.  Please reconsider, fellas.  I think it is clear that many of us will miss your input.  I can't realistically say that others will be more courteous, but maybe it is worth just not bothering to respond to certain, um, asshats.

I'm beggin' ya...

I'll miss Charlie (and Ted). TH?.................I will defer comment.

Kind of hate to lose anyone actually.

JG

 

[wildcat]

I never read what happened or what made TH leave but I did enjoy reading what he had to say. Sharp guy if you ask me. I think I, being one of the newer people, missed a lot of Charlie's posts. I understand his reasons for leaving but still wish I had the opportunity to pick his brain a bit more.

 

[Mr._johngalt]

I enjoyed Charlie's posts. He always seemed calm and reasonable.
Also pretty nonconfrontational. That may have been his ultimate
reason for leaving. My brother is like that. Avoids any kind of
dispute or disagreement. When I was younger, I relished a good
fight. Not so much any more.

JG

 

[73ss454]

I also enjoyed reading TH's posts.
What was the reason for his leaving?

Sure hope he comes back.

 

[maddythebeagle]

I can see why someone could get tired of a forum like this one. After a point, you get all of the info. that you need and try to help out a few people along the way. But at some point sifting through the "asshats" is a waste of time.

 

[haha]

I can see why someone could get tired of a forum like this one. After a point, you get all of the info. that you need and try to help out a few people along the way. But at some point sifting through the "asshats" is a waste of time.

True, and of course everyone has his/her own list of who belongs in that category.

Ha