Coronavirus - Health aspects

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In Cambodia, after the Prime Minister shook hand with passengers disembarking, they put people in a hotel, while waiting for the test results. These passengers were allowed to wander around PnomPenh, visiting local eateries, etc... Why bother to test them then? It's bizarre.

Something similar happened to the cruise ship in the US too, somewhere in the East Coast. People were allowed to wander around the city while the tests were coming back. Thankfully, the results were negative, but I don't think we knew how bad this could get, despite how bad it was in China already. I wish I could remember the name of the cruise ship. I think the ship was going to the Caribbean.
 
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Your assessment is bang on IMO. Many of them will probably do half-ass self-quarantine. Oh, I had nothing to eat, so I had to go grocery shopping. I didn't wear a mask because it makes me hard to breathe, but I was careful not to cough or sneeze. If I have to be home and can't go to work, I will default on my mortgage, so I have to go to work, but I am very careful when I'm at work...

I'm not making excuses for anyone, but those concerns that you appear to be getting snarky about are quite real for some. Apologies if I'm misreading your tone. I believe that someone here on this forum posted that they have difficulty breathing with a mask on. Besides, last I read, the CDC isn't recommending that people in the US wear masks because they're not effective for containing this virus. That should be obvious, since so many pictures/videos from China and other Asian countries show people wearing them, yet it's still gotten out of hand and continues to do so by the day. :facepalm: I don't know the current status, but wasn't it recently stated that masks weren't that easy to come by, with people hoarding them, in some cases, reselling them for massive profit? CDC is concerned about having enough for healthcare workers. I can't see the US being able to mandate masks while out in public, under the circumstances.

As for food, yes, most people aren't trying to stock up and prepare for potential interruptions in the food supply, which could happen because of quite a number of reasons. Most people are just going about their daily business as though all is still normal in the world. Those of us on this forum are not most people. We think of things that they don't. Yes, I fully expect the average person to go to the grocery store, if it's open and they have anything edible in stock, when they start running low on food, unless the government has some other arrangements in place to keep people properly fed and watered. And yes, some of those people will be morons about it. Like the 9 or 10 year old kid I saw in Walmart a couple of weeks ago who was coughing up a storm without covering up in any way while doing it, as most kids won't, and his 30ish looking year old father completely ignored it. Even without a pandemic, we are in the peak of cold and flu season. :facepalm:

There are serious financial concerns when people can't go to work, especially if they're paid hourly. People who have mild cold symptoms don't necessarily stay home even now because of them. Probably people like the grocery store clerk who coughed continually the whole time she was ringing me up last month. :facepalm: Some of those people may have more than just a cold, but will never be tested, because their symptoms aren't serious enough. Cultures among employers vary also. The slightest sniffle and your boss wants you to stay home. Others, unless you're dying, you'd better be there or risk getting fired. (Although, I hope the latter attitude changes under the circumstances.)

Most recent recommendations from the CDC leave it up to states and municipalities to institute any sort of mass closures or lock downs, the latter of which may not be enforceable in a practical sense. Places with many roads in and out, limited local law enforcement, etc. How many people actually work in the same community they live in? They do need to keep safety services, hospitals/nursing homes, pharmacies, food stores, gas stations, up and running as much as possible. That means letting essential personnel continue to commute between work and home, or else just keeping them all locked down at work so there's someone minding the store. Yikes! I think that voluntary temporary business closures would aid in self-quarantine, as people would have much less reason to go anywhere.
 
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Sorry if I sounded snarky. I am being critical in a way, but I was talking about situations where the state or city is requesting you to quarantine yourself. I don't know what I would do if I would default on my mortgage for example if I couldn't go to work, but people get sick and can't work and lose their houses if they don't have any money saved up. So if people who went to work despite the self-quarantine advice and sicked other people who needed to pay their mortgages...?

It would be unfortunate if something like a pandemic happened. A lot of people would suffer even if they don't get infected. I don't know where you would draw the line, or what would be good solutions for any of the issues you listed, but let's say you just came back from Wuhan and the government tells you to self-quarantine yourself. Would you go to work if you needed the money to pay for your mortgage/rent? And let's say you have no symptoms whatsoever. Would you risk it? Can you imagine being that person who ended up spreading the virus to hundreds of people in South Korea? I would be totally horrified.

I was upset when I heard some people were ignoring the rules on Diamond Princess. You could KILL people with this, especially the elderly. If I was in self-quarantine and I went out, I could "potentially" kill hundreds of people (not all at once but in a cascading fashion). Nurses make you wear masks before you start talking when you go to a doctor's office with a cold/flu. (My understanding with the masks is that it is effective (to keep the virus in if you have it.)) That's what you do if you're considerate and don't want to spread the virus.

If I was in self-quarantine, I hope I would do my very best to keep other people around me safe. I don't think this requires intelligence, just consideration toward dother people in general. You mentioned this - I hate it when people sneeze or cough without covering their mouths, even before this virus came about. You cover your mouth; that's simply being considerate of others IMO. DH was saying the same thing about the cashier who rang his stuff up at a grocery store, coughing constantly, touching his grocery items. There's nothing we can do about it. I'm not particularly worried about the run-of-the-mill flu as the mortality rate is nowhere near the mortality rate of the coronavirus, but if I found out this same casher was told to self-quarantine (came back from Wuhan a few days ago, possibly had contact with someone with the virus in the last week, etc) and was working and coughing like that, I would be livid.

I think people's feelings would most likely change if, say, something that is happening to Italy started happening in their neighborhood right now.
 
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I think the self quarantine would work as long as it's not too costly for the person. Frankly I don't see anyone deciding to lose their house because they are told to self quarantine, they will just go to work.

I would be fine with self quarantine but I don't work, however I'm not going to starve to death in the house and will go look for food when needed.

Self interest will rule, the only thing to stop them would be if companies were ordered closed like in China, but here the gov't does not really have that power or habit.

Just a couple of days ago, I was grocery shopping and some middle aged lady behind me coughed without covering her mouth. I find that rude to say the least.

Then outside a fellow walking with his wife spits a big gob onto the pavement. :facepalm:
 
I would be fine with self quarantine but I don't work, however I'm not going to starve to death in the house and will go look for food when needed.

There was a thread a while back about Walmart and other stores having home delivery services. That might come in handy.
 
There was a thread a while back about Walmart and other stores having home delivery services. That might come in handy.

Yes, but done wrong and maybe the delivery people would spread it house to house, like what might have happened in the cruise ship with workers going door to door each day. :facepalm:
 
Quarantine's useless at this point...it's clear plenty who have contracted it have such mild cases they don't even show symptoms...but are still for days on end shedding virus particles to those around them.

It's also clearly not anything like the Spanish flu...the people who should be worried are the same as those at risk from the seasonal flu...the elderly and those with pre-existing conditions...e.g. my DF (>80 plus cardiac issues) and DFIL (>80 plus a transplant recipient)
 
Yes, but done wrong and maybe the delivery people would spread it house to house, like what might have happened in the cruise ship with workers going door to door each day. :facepalm:

True, put disposable gloves on and get the delivery bag and wipe down all packages with 70%+ alcohol wipes, discard the gloves and cook everything thoroughly. I guess you would have to wear disposable gloves again to peel bananas/oranges/apples, etc before eating them unless you're willing to wash the fruit with soap and water instead.
 
True, put disposable gloves on and get the delivery bag and wipe down all packages with 70%+ alcohol wipes, discard the gloves and cook everything thoroughly. I guess you would have to wear disposable gloves again to peel bananas/oranges/apples, etc before eating them unless you're willing to wash the fruit with soap and water instead.

But, but, you'd have to go outside to get the bag!
 
Quarantine's useless at this point...it's clear plenty who have contracted it have such mild cases they don't even show symptoms...but are still for days on end shedding virus particles to those around them.

It's also clearly not anything like the Spanish flu...the people who should be worried are the same as those at risk from the seasonal flu...the elderly and those with pre-existing conditions...e.g. my DF (>80 plus cardiac issues) and DFIL (>80 plus a transplant recipient)

And smokers and former smokers - Covid-19 sticks to smokers'/former smokers' lungs more easily as they have more ACE2 receptors.
 
Yes, but done wrong and maybe the delivery people would spread it house to house, like what might have happened in the cruise ship with workers going door to door each day. :facepalm:

Good point. Also, there could eventually be a temporary shortage of delivery people, due to so many being sick themselves. At home delivery may see some disruptions from all sources.

Lately I've tended to notice more people coughing in public, which probably isn't unusual. I'm just more tuned to it now. :(

Annoyingly, the Johns Hopkins map isn't working. It was up earlier this morning. Now it's asking for a sign in to view anything. I haven't found a quality comparable map yet. Hopefully they're just updating and don't really expect people to create accounts to view such an important map.
 
But, but, you'd have to go outside to get the bag!

OK, make sure there's no one dropping cough bombs or sneeze bombs around your house before you step out. (Aren't you the one who posted a photo of a full-body protective suit?) I heard a guy on Youtube who was in quarantine but was allowed to go shopping twice a week in Wuhan saying hat he would put on a layer of outerwear before he left home and removed the outer layer and put it in the laundry when he got home, but no reason to do that as you're getting the bag at your front porch.
 
To your point, if you recall the Ebola outbreak there was a nurse who came back from treating dying people. She was told to stay in her house. What did she do? She went for a bike ride around the house.
It needs to be a felony to leave home quarantine.
https://time.com/3548847/kaci-hickox-ebola-nurse-quarantine-bike-ride/
Don't forget the nurse that then went on a cruise after treating an Ebola patient. She did call the cruise line and they refused to reimburse her which was a boneheaded move on their part. But because of that she went on the cruise! :facepalm: She freaked out a lot of people, but fortunately for everyone she was free of disease.
 
Good point. Also, there could eventually be a temporary shortage of delivery people, due to so many being sick themselves. At home delivery may see some disruptions from all sources.

Lately I've tended to notice more people coughing in public, which probably isn't unusual. I'm just more tuned to it now. :(

Annoyingly, the Johns Hopkins map isn't working. It was up earlier this morning. Now it's asking for a sign in to view anything. I haven't found a quality comparable map yet. Hopefully they're just updating and don't really expect people to create accounts to view such an important map.

I am much more aware of people coughing now too! Well, I get like that when I'm traveling by air too, but more so now than ever.

I've noticed too that the map is not working. Earlier it said it was being configured, but now, it's requiring a login and it looks like they won't give logins unless you're part of their associates/students, etc.
 
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And smokers and former smokers - Covid-19 sticks to smokers'/former smokers' lungs more easily as they have more ACE2 receptors.

DF still smokes...well, he lights one up, takes a couple of puffs, and wonders why he has a lit cigarette in his hand...at least his wife makes him do all that outside...
 
Annoyingly, the Johns Hopkins map isn't working. It was up earlier this morning. Now it's asking for a sign in to view anything. I haven't found a quality comparable map yet. Hopefully they're just updating and don't really expect people to create accounts to view such an important map.

The map is back online. They did indeed reconfigure and it's now easier to see the number of deaths by country.
 
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I don't know where you would draw the line, or what would be good solutions for any of the issues you listed, but let's say you just came back from Wuhan and the government tells you to self-quarantine yourself. Would you go to work if you needed the money to pay for your mortage/rent? And let's say you have no symptoms whatsoever. Would you risk it? Can you imagine being that person who ended up spreading the virus to hundreds of people already in South Korea? I would be totally horrified

It's hard to know where to draw the line and some lines should have been drawn earlier, IMO. I can't relate to the questions you ask, so my answers wouldn't really be fair or representative of the general population at large.

I don't work. DH works. We're FI and have significant passive investment income. We could afford to self-quarantine for quite a while. Our house is paid for. We have more than a week's worth of groceries and I'm gradually stocking up more. Our 2 adult kids live with us and they both work lower-wage hourly jobs. We could cover their personal expenses if they had to self-quarantine for awhile. Hopefully, they wouldn't lose their jobs, as I'd figure most employers who aren't living under a rock would know the reason why their employees might not be able to get to work for awhile (sickness, community lock downs, etc.).

I wouldn't expect anyone who isn't similarly situated to necessarily do the same, especially if it meant they or their kids would go hungry.

The closest I've been to China was when I went into a local Chinese takeout place on New Year's Day. I don't know if any of those employees/owners had recently come from China or if they had relatives from China visiting here in the US. IIRC, China had only made public that this virus existed the day before. I don't think many knew much about it until a little later in January.

True story: DH had a physical a few days later and got an MMR booster vaccine at the doctor's recommendation. He had no reaction to the vaccine, so I got one myself at the grocery store pharmacy on January 10th. Within hours I felt like I was coming down with something. Over the course of the next few weeks, I had strange and unusual symptoms that changed every few days, unlike anything I've experienced before. Downright weird, in fact. None of them were listed symptoms of reactions to the MMR vaccine. (I can post details if anyone is that interested, nothing messy, I promise.)

In the midst of that, the news of the virus became headline news. You can imagine my thoughts, possibly. But my symptoms at that time didn't match the known symptoms of the coronavirus. No fever. No cough. No shortness of breath.

Until mid-to-late January, when I developed a cough around the same time that grocery store clerk was coughing at me. I didn't know if she'd passed on something to me or if the cough was just another development in a series of the strange and unusual symptoms I'd been experiencing for the previous weeks after the MMR vaccine. There was no break in-between. It could easily have been either. :confused:

When my cough and occasional shortness of breath persisted into a 4th week (at least all the other symptoms had gone away), I started considering other things. I told DH it felt more like an allergic reaction to something rather than a sickness. (I've had pneumonia before, caught in the early stages when I was 39, and my cough and shortness of breath wasn't even close to that.) Long story short, it appears I was having one of the known side effects (trouble breathing) of a mouthwash and toothpaste I'd switched to a couple of months earlier at my dentist's recommendation. I switched back to my former mouthwash and toothpaste. Now I only have a slight residual cough once in awhile, which should disappear completely soon.

Since my saga began with the MMR vaccine, I haven't met the criteria that would have qualified me to be tested for coronavirus as listed on the CDC website, even now with the updated guidelines. BTW, here they are:

Fever1 or signs/symptoms of lower respiratory illness (e.g. cough or shortness of breath) AND Any person, including health care workers, who has had close contact2 with a laboratory-confirmed3,4 2019-nCoV patient within 14 days of symptom onset
Fever1 and signs/symptoms of a lower respiratory illness (e.g., cough or shortness of breath) AND A history of travel from Hubei Province, China5 within 14 days of symptom onset
Fever1 and signs/symptoms of a lower respiratory illness (e.g., cough or shortness of breath) requiring hospitalization4 AND A history of travel from mainland China5 within 14 days of symptom onset

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nCoV/hcp/clinical-criteria.html

So, I didn't curtail my out-of-the-house activities in any way. I drive my daughter to and from work. I grocery shop, a little more often now, trying to stock up a bit. That's mostly it. I'm more exposed to whatever is floating around out there through the work activities of my DH, son, and daughter. Throughout all of that, the 3 of them have had no symptoms of anything at all.

I wouldn't blame anyone else for going about their normal business either. At this point, who knows if they've been exposed to someone with a connection to someone, etc., etc. All I know for sure, is that I haven't gotten Chinese take-out since. I'd like to someday, but not yet. :LOL:
 
I’ve been reading the CDC reports of US infections. The only growth at the moment has been in the evacuees from the Diamond Princess currently under Federal quarantine.

14 infected were brought back. It became 18 in a couple of days. And now it’s 36!!

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-in-us.html
 
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I’ve been reading the CDC reports of US infections. The only growth at the moment has been in the evacuees from the Diamond Princess currently under Federal quarantine.

14 infected were brought back. It became 18 in a couple of days. And now it’s 36!!

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-in-us.html

So I wonder if they are keeping each person in isolation from the others, or can they all mix together.
It seems to me the 14 day clock should restart if they are mixing.
 
They should definitely start the quarantine from the moment when everyone went into their self-contained room isolated from everyone. I wouldn't trust anything the Japanese government did while they were on the cruise ship, and the infected and the non-infected both flew on the same plane. I am not sure as to how many days of quarantine is truly needed as I heard rumours that this virus could take up to 29 days to manifest. An initial report from one of the hospitals in Wuhan (I think it had 99 patients) stated that 95% of the patients developed symptoms within 12.5 days or something like that, and I tend to think that the 14-day estimate is a better estimate as at that stage, it was easier to find out where they caught the virus, but I'm no expert, and the virus could mutate too.
 
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A pretty decent summary article in the WSJ today.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-we-know-about-the-wuhan-virus-11579716128?mod=djem10point

Probably behind a paywall, so I'll briefly excerpt some of the main points.

The number of people sick with or dying of a viral pneumonia caused by the virus is still rising in the epicenter of Hubei Province, China, despite a quarantine of some 60 million people and other measures to stop it.
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What are the symptoms of the illness and how do you know if you have it?
Fever, cough, aches, then can progress to shortness of breath and complications from pneumonia. Some become only mildly ill, or are infected but don’t get sick. Others are mildly ill for a few days, then rapidly develop more severe symptoms of pneumonia.
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Who is most at risk?
Risk is highest for older people and those with other health conditions such as diabetes
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How at risk is someone in the U.S.?
The risk to the U.S. public is low, says the CDC
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How is the virus spread among humans?
It is likely spread through a cough, sneeze or other contact with saliva
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What is the incubation period?
People become ill between two and 14 days after infection
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Can face masks protect you?
Only a properly used reusable N95 respirator mask certified by an independent agency can guard against the virus.
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How easily does the new virus spread?
On average, each infected person has transmitted the virus to about 2.6 others, though the range is between 1.5 and 3.5.
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Can you catch the virus from someone even before they have symptoms?
It is possible. But little is known so far.
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How dangerous is the new coronavirus?
It appears to be less deadly than a related pathogen. SARS killed about 10% of the people it infected, while about 2.9% of the people confirmed to be infected with this new coronavirus have died.
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How worried should I be?
Most people who are infected may become only mildly ill, data suggest. Of 44,672 cases in China, 81% had mild symptoms, 13.8% were severely ill, and 4.7% were critically ill, according to the Chinese CDC. All of those who died were in critical condition.
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Is it safe to go on a cruise?
The U.S. State Department has urged Americans to reconsider cruises to or within Asia, given the risk of infection and of being subjected to a lengthy quarantine.
Could goods imported from China carry the virus?
That is unlikely, the CDC says. Coronaviruses generally don’t survive long on inanimate surfaces.
 
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