Dave Ramsey Show and FIRE Caution.

[frayne]

I like Dave's advice about financial independence but these two hosts seemed to have not gotten the memo nor understand that FIRE isn't living on noodles and peanut butter for thirty years.

 

[retire48in2018]

Reading some of the YouTube comments is amusing.


I think these 2 are fairly detached from most people’s realities. They discount or do not consider that people can retire to enjoy family, hobbies, etc and have a healthy self esteem

They are also connecting FIRE to a particular 30 year old who retired in their 30s. I had to google to find - Sam Dogen aka Financial Samurai. Never heard of him. Don’t know why he is viewed as father or spearheading FIRE. Several others claim to be key. Maybe the term/acronym is new.

I don’t think anything else about retiring early is new and can be attributed to a particular person and their heritage

 

[Surewhitey]

I see their points in me a little. I stopped w*rking for the man 5 years ago (self now) & find enjoyment with sharing vacation with family (starting today in CO), love food and do most of the cooking (grocery budget up every year for good quality stuff). While not wasting as much on depreciating assets and restaurants.

There are extremes in everything & they are not healthy or sustainable forever, imo.

 

[ER Eddie]

The idea of FIRE is to "work yourself to exhaustion and beyond" and have "no life"? I tuned out at that point. Maybe he should do just 5 minutes of research on a topic before he spouts off about it. nah...

 

[Koolau]

We've seen this sort of misunderstanding before. Clearly, the guys don't know anything about our FIRE Forum and the folks that populate it.

When they were talking about the 4.3 million (or whatever it was) I was thinking: Man I wish I could have started with THAT much when I FIRED! Of course, 17 years later, I'm closer to that figure than I was when I FIRED! Making assumptions as they do about people/attitudes/motives and finances makes me wonder what the purpose of their show is. The one guy said he doesn't want to retire. Fine, but don't tell other people that it's not possible.

 

[njhowie]

I saw the article on Y! Finance when it came out a couple weeks ago. These hosts, like many of the folks who were commenting on the article on Y! Finance missed the important point(s) with the couple. It wasn't an issue with FIRE. It was a psychological problem. They had/have plenty of money to FIRE without any issues. They have mental/psychological issues with spending money. That is what their problem is - that they feel regretful spending it.

This is why they were hooked up with Ramit Sethi. To try and straighten out their issues with spending money in general.

Here is the original article on Y! Finance, which was pulled from Fortune.com
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/couple-retired-early-4-3-130000806.html

 

[njhowie]

...makes me wonder what the purpose of their show is.

They/Ramsey wants you to follow their approach. They need to be in control. They need for you to plod along, taking baby steps your entire life. You cannot go off and become wildly successful and then take it easy for the rest of your life. Nope, because that rarely happens, and they want to reduce everyone to the greatest common factor(s).

If you've made it, then you no longer need Ramsey, and that's bad ... for Ramsey.

They want you in the cult, and to remain in the cult. That is how they succeed.

 

[W2R]

Less than a minute into the video, Ramsey said that something "we" believe is that "we are created to work and contribute (blah blah blah)". I don't personally believe that we are all created to work. There is more to life than work. I suppose he would think that idea is sinful, but I don't.

When it comes to nutso ideas like that, "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a ...":

To me, work is/was a means to an end, not the end in itself. I didn't listen to the rest of the video.

 

[marko]

We have perhaps hundreds of threads here over the years about friends/family/coworkers/neighbors who do not understand one's
early retirement. Add Ramsey to the pile.

Those who know, no explanation is required........etc.

 

[FREE866]

The dude on the right, whoever he is, was just barking out one ridiculous assumption after the next...


"they have no life"
In my 7th year of retirement and I don't think I've ever been happier



"you were created to work"
according to who?



"scarcity mindset"
I'm just not a big spender, never was, but if I want something I buy it lol


It's 85 degrees and muggy in NYC today...yeah I wish I was in a suit in my office on some sales call right now

 

[Aerides]

They are also connecting FIRE to a particular 30 year old who retired in their 30s. I had to google to find - Sam Dogen aka Financial Samurai. Never heard of him. Don’t know why he is viewed as father or spearheading FIRE. Several others claim to be key. Maybe the term/acronym is new.

He is decidedly not the father of FIRE, nor a remotely representative member of it. He's a Fire blogger who routinely makes click bait posts saying he made a mistake and has to go back to work because he can't afford his very affluent lifestyle. But doesn't. But still is working full time on his blog anyway. Any serious reference to him is enough to stop the video.

It's ok to FIRE and have a side gig. But if it's actually a full time job, like he and many others do - essentially making an income out of being FIRE, darling, you ain't retired.

 

[Koolau]

There have been times when I actually loved my w*rk. I notice that it was typically when the power structure within megacorp had very little control over me. They didn't really understand my services to them. They only knew that they needed me. About all they could say was "handle it."

Of course, as mentioned many times. I was able to structure a niche for myself and eventually megacorp realized that I liked what I was doing. That was the end of that (and the end of my J*b at megacorp.)

 

[copyright1997reloaded]

The idea of FIRE is to "work yourself to exhaustion and beyond" and have "no life"? I tuned out at that point. Maybe he should do just 5 minutes of research on a topic before he spouts off about it. nah...

Same....and I'm a guy who who was FI long ago (over 14 years+) but still working and even I couldn't take more than 50 seconds of their diatribe.

 

[Texas Proud]

I am not a fan....


One of the first thing he says is to cut all credit cards... heck, I get a lot of money back on my CCs... a few thousand... no way I am going to cut that out of my life... for what? to show I am 'pure'?


I really have not gone too much deeper into his methods after getting there so not sure what else he believes...

 

[MarieIG]

Ramsey can be useful for people who are drowning in debt, and really don't have a clue how to get started on a path toward fiscal responsibility.

I would be leery of using one of his affiliated financial planners and I think most of us on this forum can use credit cards to their advantage.

 

[ER Eddie]

"you were created to work"

according to who?

God (/s). It's the Protestant work ethic. You demonstrate your spiritual worthiness through hard work. Ramsey is a conservative Christian. I assume all his sub-hosts are, too.

Of course, you don't need to be conservative Christian to have imbided the Protestant work ethic. Even if you're not religious, it's embedded in our culture.

 

[jollystomper]

I do not view Dave Ramsey any different than Suze Orman (the recent subject of another hot thread). Both can be helpful to some people depending on the needs of the people. The danger is when one looks to them (or any other pundit) solely for the entire range of personal financial advice. I dont expect many folks to advocate FIRE - because I think the term has been misused, and because so many have not been able to achieve it. More true FIREd folks, less customers for the personal finance pundits .

One can argue whether on not one we were made to work - but working develops a ton of skills and responsibilities that one would not get otherwise. Then there are the additional aspects of "working hard" and "working smart". Many might be challenged trying to "work hard", but even more are challenged to "work smart" .

 

[Telly]

Everybody knows that retiring early means "living in a commune and washing out tin foil and Saran Wrap"
There's a quote from the past!

 

[Gumby]

I am not a fan....


One of the first thing he says is to cut all credit cards... heck, I get a lot of money back on my CCs... a few thousand... no way I am going to cut that out of my life... for what? to show I am 'pure'?


I really have not gone too much deeper into his methods after getting there so not sure what else he believes...

I've had a credit card for 40 years and have never paid a penny in interest. They are merely payment channels for me, not sources of borrowing. Honestly, it has not been that hard for me to limit my spending on my own.

And, to their point in the video, I have had a pretty good life both while I was working and since I retired. I was well aware that I could save harder, with the concomitant constraints on my enjoyment of life, in order to retire earlier to live a more constrained life after I retired. But I didn't want to do that; I wanted a full and enjoyable life both before and after retirement. So I was willing to work until I was 60 to make that happen. It helped that I generally enjoyed my work, but I sure don't miss it or feel aimless now.

 

[DrRoy]

Perhaps a few do that, I don't think most here do.

 

[Z3Dreamer]

Ramsey can be useful for people who are drowning in debt, and really don't have a clue how to get started on a path toward fiscal responsibility.

I would be leery of using one of his affiliated financial planners and I think most of us on this forum can use credit cards to their advantage.

You are spot on.

Driving around town, I sometimes tune in his show on talk radio. It is interesting to hear about those who can't handle debt and how his structure - Financial Peace University helps them get out of it. I view it as pure entertainment. Is there anything useful that I have ever implemented? NO.

More amazing to me is how people can acquire consumer debt, college debt, and car debt without understanding the consequences. They even throw in the occasional situation where someone co-signed a loan with a buddy or relative and now that person is gone or unable to pay the debt.

Finally, they throw in someone who has a business that makes no sense and the person doesn't understand why they aren't making money.

Again, pure entertainment.

 

[Koolau]

You are spot on.

Driving around town, I sometimes tune in his show on talk radio. It is interesting to hear about those who can't handle debt and how his structure - Financial Peace University helps them get out of it. I view it as pure entertainment. Is there anything useful that I have ever implemented? NO.

More amazing to me is how people can acquire consumer debt, college debt, and car debt without understanding the consequences. They even throw in the occasional situation where someone co-signed a loan with a buddy or relative and now that person is gone or unable to pay the debt.

Finally, they throw in someone who has a business that makes no sense and the person doesn't understand why they aren't making money.

Again, pure entertainment.

AKA pure wast of time.

 

[Aerides]

Again, pure entertainment.

I think all advice shows (debt, personal, fitness, etc.) skew that way. The people they "help" are there to provide content. People tune in to watch the train wreck, the occasional feel good story, and then to feel wise as they nod along with the host when they repeat whatever mantras.

Content brings viewers/listeners, which brings advertisers, revenue, profit.

 

[Koolau]

I think all advice shows (debt, personal, fitness, etc.) skew that way. The people they "help" are there to provide content. People tune in to watch the train wreck, the occasional feel good story, and then to feel wise as they nod along with the host when they repeat whatever mantras.

Content brings viewers/listeners, which brings advertisers, revenue, profit.

I feel the same way about Suze O though she's at least more focused on a bigger picture most of the time rather than the minutia of DR (though YMMV.)

 

[MarieIG]

I think all advice shows (debt, personal, fitness, etc.) skew that way. The people they "help" are there to provide content. People tune in to watch the train wreck, the occasional feel good story, and then to feel wise as they nod along with the host when they repeat whatever mantras.

Content brings viewers/listeners, which brings advertisers, revenue, profit.

Most of the shows/ podcasts are businesses. Some provide more value than others - and some particular segments contain more value than others.

I listened to two podcasts yesterday as part of my quest to expand my financial knowledge - which had titles such as how to recession proof your portfolio, and how to prepare for upcoming tax changes - and my impression were that the hosts were (at least for those shows) poorly prepared and blathered on with a lot of fluff and limited substance. The bottom line seemed to be prepared and consult a financial planner.

(I am not posting them.)