Die With Zero - Book

[Koolau]

There are lots of things that people can do at age 40 that they can't do when they're 60 without risking injury. When is the last time you sprinted full out?

One example of 60 vs 70: At 60 I was able to dig footings for a patio by hand. Now, (or even at 70) wouldn't consider doing so. Age can sneak up on you or just bite you in the hind quarters. A bit of both for me. It's a long story, so YMMV.

 

[ncbill]

The decision to retire early or late is a personal one. It is whatever path that makes you happier. If you love your job and you are in good health, then you can retire late. If you hate your job and you are in bad health, then you should retire early.

However, retiring early usually means your retirement will be of a lesser quality unless you get a retirement job. This is because a person who retire late will have a bigger nest egg. What good is 30 years of retirement and you can only afford eating hamburgers? I prefer 20 years of retirement and I can afford steak dinners.

The quality of life in retirement matters. Duration of retirement also matters. This is why I focused on my health and my fitness so that I have a good possibility of having both.

But with an increasing chance of not having the physical ability to do the things you wanted to do in retirement.

E.g. most guys will have an easier time of climbing all those stairs on the Amalfi coast in their 50s versus their 70s.

Certainly, if you want the best chance at a full 30 years you've got to plan for it well before you hit your 50s...though IIRC most workers will have hit the second "bend point" for SS retirement by then, so that benefit won't change much by working another decade.

 

[Music Lover]

However, retiring early usually means your retirement will be of a lesser quality unless you get a retirement job. This is because a person who retire late will have a bigger nest egg. What good is 30 years of retirement and you can only afford eating hamburgers? I prefer 20 years of retirement and I can afford steak dinners.

You can always keep working and filling your bank account. Or, you can take steps to ensure that regardless of your income level (to a point) that you can have a long retirement eating steak any time you want.

I retired just before 54 with a modest pension...it's probably too little for many but due to a paid off house, my DIY skills, low cost hobbies, etc., I could eat steak every day if I wanted. Other people wouldn't be comfortable with my monthly expenditures yet I live very well lacking nothing.

Those who never bothered to trim expenses and worked an extra 10 years missed out on 10 years of retirement.

 

[Dtail]

The decision to retire early or late is a personal one. It is whatever path that makes you happier. If you love your job and you are in good health, then you can retire late. If you hate your job and you are in bad health, then you should retire early.

However, retiring early usually means your retirement will be of a lesser quality unless you get a retirement job. This is because a person who retire late will have a bigger nest egg. What good is 30 years of retirement and you can only afford eating hamburgers? I prefer 20 years of retirement and I can afford steak dinners.

The quality of life in retirement matters. Duration of retirement also matters. This is why I focused on my health and my fitness so that I have a good possibility of having both.

I agree with many of your posts, but not necessarily the 2nd paragraph above.
Many folks who have retired in their 50's on this site can afford more steak type of a lifestyle vs. a hamburger lifestyle.
First you have the many government/military retirees who typically have good pensions and great health care benefits.
There are a decent number of posters here who spend over 100k and have portfolios of 3m-5m, not to mention decent SS payments.

 

[Koolau]

I agree with many of your posts, but not necessarily the 2nd paragraph above.
Many folks who have retired in their 50's on this site can afford more steak type of a lifestyle vs. a hamburger lifestyle.
First you have the many government/military retirees who typically have good pensions and great health care benefits.
There are a decent number of posters here who spend over 100k and have portfolios of 3m-5m, not to mention decent SS payments.

For me, it was never about having "more" but having "enough." Sounds too simple, but I find it powerful. YMMV

 

[CRLLS]

I also disagree that your prime years are 45-60. When I was 61, I was still working and I was commuting by bicycle 20 miles or 2 hours one way. Biking 4 hours a day is not for everyone but I did it to keep me young.

After retiring at 65, I still bike and I built a retaining wall involving moving a lot of soil. At age 70, I decided to re-roof my shingle house by myself without any helpers. This included stripping two layers of old shingles and loading about 5,000 lbs of old shingles on my van to a recycling center which took 4 trips. Hauling new shingles and underlayment to my roof and doing everything myself is not for everyone at age 70 but I did it to keep me young.

I still bike, surf in Hawaii and ski in the mountains. I am in good health with no back or joint problems. I do not take medicine except for vitamins. I got COVID-19 but I easily recovered and I attributed this recovery at age 70 to my health.

There is a article in bicycling magazine on “performance age” versus “biological age” which states your real age can be your performance age and not your biological age. If you can do things at a biological age of 70 that are normally done by guys at age 50, then your real age is 50 and not 70. My wife is 20 years younger than me so I need to perform as if I am age 50 to keep up with her.

It is a mindset. If you think you are old, then you are old. I truly believe that I am 20 years younger than my biological age and I am enjoying life as if I am still in the prime of my life. You do not age and become old unless you let it. Keeping fit is the best thing you can do in retirement.

I will admit that I don't do things as well today as I did in my 40's. I don't let my age stop me from doing anything I want to. I just do it slower and not as long. Last year at age 67 I felled 3 dead trees in my yard and cut them up into 16" logs. 2 days later my back went out while servicing my A/C Condenser. Coincidence? Probably. Everything is fine......until it isn't.

 

[Retiredmajor]

I agree with many of the posts here. We retired at 60 with "enough". My wife and i stay pretty fit by moving everyday in some way. We walk, hike, canoe and do yard work. I'm 64 now and my son (age 39) and I just ascended San Jacinto Peak in southern California at 10,800 feet 3 weeks ago. 9 hours all uphill with a 32 lb pack, slept out overnight and then 7 hours down. We are spending more right now because we are healthy and want to travel and enjoy life. We know we won't be able to keep up this pace indefinitely and figure we will spend less on travel later. Maybe some expenses will increase as we age, but others will surely decrease. Who knows what will happen? I licked my finger....stuck it in the air and assessed the wind. Major

 

[sengsational]

One thing to note with all of the examples of physical activity @ some age that have been noted in this thread...if you were 20 years younger and had done the same activity, you wouldn't have thought it was worth commenting on

 

[Music Lover]

One thing to note with all of the examples of physical activity @ some age that have been noted in this thread...if you were 20 years younger and had done the same activity, you wouldn't have thought it was worth commenting on

Very true. I've always thought that if you can do at 65 what you did at 40, then you really didn't do much at 40.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

There's a line in The Blue Zones Solutions book book where the author is interviewing Dr. Ellsworth Wareham at age 99, and he said he still feels like he is 20. He made it to age 104. - In Memoriam: Dr. Ellsworth Wareham, Pioneering Blue Zones Heart Surgeon - Blue Zones

 

[ER Eddie]

I don't want to hike Kilamanjaro now, much less when I'm 70. My desires for physical activity are fairly simple -- walking, biking, low-intensity hiking. I fully expect to be doing those things just as well when I'm 70 as I am now, at 59. Assuming I stay healthy, my capacity to do the things I want to do, physically, will be just fine at 70.

The book arrived in the mail today. I plan to take it with me on a trip partially inspired by the book (or rather, by this discussion around the book).

 

[zinger1457]

When I was in my 40's I liked to hike, bike, fish, golf, travel, woodworking, kayaking, read books, go to gym. Since I retired and now in my 60's still do the same things and have extra time to try a few new hobbies.

 

[Major Tom]

The discussion was activities that one would 'want' to be able to do but can no longer because of age. Never heard anyone express a desire or need to be able to sprint full out even if it's possible to do it.

Like Music Lover, I also would like to be able to run. However, around the age of 45, I had to accept that I wasn't going to be able to, if I wanted my knee to last for a few more years before it needed to be replaced.

Although not an athletic person, I had always been quite nimble on my feet. I loved sprinting up staircases, and running up hills. A couple of motorcycle accidents that tore my cartilage when younger, combined with osteoarthritis, eventually put a stop to the running. Initially, it was hard to accept, but I had little choice. I eked another 12 years out of my right knee before having it replaced earlier this year.

I still cycle, but not being able to run has definitely made me feel a bit older and slower.

 

[2177V]

I agree with many of your posts, but not necessarily the 2nd paragraph above.
Many folks who have retired in their 50's on this site can afford more steak type of a lifestyle vs. a hamburger lifestyle.
First you have the many government/military retirees who typically have good pensions and great health care benefits.
There are a decent number of posters here who spend over 100k and have portfolios of 3m-5m, not to mention decent SS payments.

The point is...if you retire later (rather than early), your nest egg will likely be bigger.

For those who can retire early, have a portfolio of $3M to $5M and have a steak dinner life style, then good for them.

However, if you retire 10 years later, a $3M to $5M portfolio may compound and then grow to $6M to $10M because you are contributing money longer and you are not drawing from it.

In that comparison, it is a steak dinner at a family restaurant versus a steak dinner at a michelin starred restaurant.

A few years ago, I was at the Cayman Islands where young waitresses in bikinis served me martinis on a private beach. That is a life style that appeals to me.

 

[Music Lover]

Each to their own. I'd rather be retired and cooking my own steaks than work 10 years longer.

I know the difference between "enough" and "more" for my lifestyle.

 

[Rushmore]

The point is...if you retire later (rather than early), your nest egg will likely be bigger.

For those who can retire early, have a portfolio of $3M to $5M and have a steak dinner life style, then good for them.

However, if you retire 10 years later, a $3M to $5M portfolio may compound and then grow to $6M to $10M because you are contributing money longer and you are not drawing from it.

In that comparison, it is a steak dinner at a family restaurant versus a steak dinner at a michelin starred restaurant.

A few years ago, I was at the Cayman Islands where young waitresses in bikinis served me martinis on a private beach. That is a life style that appeals to me.

Retired at 55 with no where near that kinda money. If I worked till 70 I wouldn’t have that kinda money. Good thing my favorite steak is homemade Swissin my crockpot! And have absolutely no desire to be served by young waitress in bikinis on a private beach. Having free time to do what I want when I want for the past 12 years…priceless

 

[Dtail]

The point is...if you retire later (rather than early), your nest egg will likely be bigger.

For those who can retire early, have a portfolio of $3M to $5M and have a steak dinner life style, then good for them.

However, if you retire 10 years later, a $3M to $5M portfolio may compound and then grow to $6M to $10M because you are contributing money longer and you are not drawing from it.

In that comparison, it is a steak dinner at a family restaurant versus a steak dinner at a michelin starred restaurant.

A few years ago, I was at the Cayman Islands where young waitresses in bikinis served me martinis on a private beach. That is a life style that appeals to me.

If I had 5m at age 55, I would never work 10 more years and retire at 65 with 10m, but that is me.
You can see that there are many posters here who have had friends and family dying before 65.

 

[tmm99]

Just finished the book...my thoughts:

1. I agree with his concepts that you should give with a warm hand (alive) rather than a cold hand (dead).
2. I agree that experiences can be more rewarding than things.

3. I disagree that your prime years are 45-60 and you go downhill rapidly after that. I believe you can spend time and/or money to help maintain your good health, and people should do that. My wife and I did a mini triathlon last year in the Everglades, but I also see quite a few of my peers who cannot walk up a flight of stairs. I am 71 right now, and we kayak, bike, or hike on a daily basis. We also do Bikram Yoga 4 days each week. (google it)

I think the author focuses too much on Net Worth and not enough on Cash Flow. If you have SS and Pension income, for example, you may not need much of a nest egg later in life...but he really does not mention sources of income much.

His focus on DOING THINGS is spot on for this community. Once we stop doing things, I believe we can deteriorate quickly. Each of us should spend time putting together a time oriented bucket list as he suggests. Give your retirement and your life some purpose.

Thanks for the summary. I'm definitely liking the gifting idea... I think I've been way too frugal. My spending is around 2.3% including taxes, and I haven't even started taking SS yet. What am I going to do with all the money once the SS starts?? I may not want to get close to ZERO, but I think I should definitely start spending more money. After all, we can't take it with us.

My mom (in her mid-90s) tells me that her activity level started going downhill when she hit 80. But she was still pretty active, taking international (including 12-hr flights) and domestic trips until about she was in her mid-80's, but then stopped. I don't think people go downhill in earlier years (45-60) as this author says, but I'm sure it depends on the individual. For example, my mom has no knee problems or back problems. A lot of people have problems with walking much earlier than age 80.

 

[target2019]

Finally completed Chapter 6 Balance Your Life.
1. What experiences can you truly enjoy now that you might not want to postpone?
2. Find a way to invest more time in the pursuit of an experience.
3. Improving your eating - better health now and later.
4. Increase physical actiivty you enjoy and helps improve future enjoyment.
5. If time is constrained more than money and health, then spend to make additional time available for your experiences.

The summarized ideas above are charted like so:

 

[GravitySucks]

The point is...if you retire later (rather than early), your nest egg will likely be bigger.

For those who can retire early, have a portfolio of $3M to $5M and have a steak dinner life style, then good for them.

However, if you retire 10 years later, a $3M to $5M portfolio may compound and then grow to $6M to $10M because you are contributing money longer and you are not drawing from it.

In that comparison, it is a steak dinner at a family restaurant versus a steak dinner at a michelin starred restaurant.

A few years ago, I was at the Cayman Islands where young waitresses in bikinis served me martinis on a private beach. That is a life style that appeals to me.

Save and wait long enough and you may not have the teeth too enjoy a good steak.
Or libido enough to enjoy the bikini clad waitresses.

 

[Music Lover]

Save and wait long enough and you may not have the teeth too enjoy a good steak.
Or libido enough to enjoy the bikini clad waitresses.

I'm picturing some poor waitress having to deal with a drooling and toothless old man...

 

[2177V]

If I had 5m at age 55, I would never work 10 more years and retire at 65 with 10m, but that is me.
You can see that there are many posters here who have had friends and family dying before 65.

There is an article in bicycling magazine that states your real age is your performance age and not your biological age. In other words, if your biological age is 70 and you can still do things what a typical 50 years old person can do, then your real age is 50 and not 70. I am age 70 (biological) and my wife is 20 years younger than me and I just re-roofed my shingled house by myself without hiring a contractor or even a helper. This involved heavy lifting and hard work but heavy lifting and hard work makes me stay young. I suggest keeping fit to live longer. Too many people thinks life ends at 65 and the end is near. I am really enjoying my wealth and I will be hiring a maid to cook my steaks so that my young wife do not have to. This is because my young wife is a business owner with employees who depend on her. I also own a Cuddy boat and on my boat states: "Heaven is I fish Wife work."

 

[Music Lover]

There is an article in bicycling magazine that states your real age is your performance age and not your biological age. In other words, if your biological age is 70 and you can still do things what a typical 50 years old person can do, then your real age is 50 and not 70. I am age 70 (biological) and my wife is 20 years younger than me and I just re-roofed my shingled house by myself without hiring a contractor or even a helper. This involved heavy lifting and hard work but heavy lifting and hard work makes me stay young. I suggest keeping fit to live longer. Too many people thinks life ends at 65 and the end is near. I am really enjoying my wealth and I will be hiring a maid to cook my steaks so that my young wife do not have to. This is because my young wife is a business owner with employees who depend on her. I also own a Cuddy boat and on my boat states: "Heaven is I fish Wife work."

I agree with keeping fit. I also re-roofed my house (and 2 others) at age 59. I'm in better shape than most people that are 59 and can do what a lot of 40-year old people can't do...and even what some 30-year old people can't do. But that's more a reflection of their failings than of my fitness.

I'm 59 and can't do what I did when I was 40. When I'm 70 I hope to be doing what some people at 50 do but I'll no longer be able to do what I did at 50.

 

[googily]

If I had 5m at age 55, I would never work 10 more years and retire at 65 with 10m, but that is me.
You can see that there are many posters here who have had friends and family dying before 65.

Yes, my husband who died at 55 would like a word....

 

[REWahoo]

I'm 59 and can't do what I did when I was 40. When I'm 70 I hope to be doing what some people at 50 do but I'll no longer be able to do what I did at 50.

Good luck with that.

Extended good health is guaranteed to none.