Die With Zero - Book

[RobbieB]

Yeah, me either.

I lost 4 times what I spent on the boat in the market last month, but hey, ups and downs eh?

Not worried about it, on the plan -

 

[F.I.R.E User]

So how do we die with near zero?

 

[Music Lover]

So how do we die with near zero?

It's a lot easier if a pension and CPP or SS makes up most of your income.

I know several people where 100% of their income is a pension plus CPP. A couple of them have sold their homes and are spending the money while they're still able. They'll never actually run out because they will get paid every month until they die but they can get darn close.

 

[Markola]

So how do we die with near zero?

Simple. Make out one’s last check to the undertaker, which bounces.

 

[sengsational]

Can you explain the ACA tax problem you would have? I don’t understand that. You don’t have to pay taxes on any money you gift, right?

No gift tax or anything, but anything I spend is coming out of untaxed accounts, so shows as income. More income, less PTC. It wouldn't be impossible to gift while on ACA, just not tax efficient. After 65 gifting has a lower tax impact.

 

[ncbill]

It's a lot easier if a pension and CPP or SS makes up most of your income.

I know several people where 100% of their income is a pension plus CPP. A couple of them have sold their homes and are spending the money while they're still able. They'll never actually run out because they will get paid every month until they die but they can get darn close.

Good luck getting into a decent ALF w/o savings or hefty LTC policy.

Here I have a relative who was rejected from their first choice of ALF since they didn't have what the ALF considered sufficient lump sum assets.

Despite the fact that relative has both a COLA pension & decent monthly SS income.

 

[dtbach]

I’m half through he book and am enjoying the author’s fresh perspectives.

I’m 55 and he’s making me feel better about our existing plan to spend down assets about 75% in our go go years until they are projected to start increasing again in our early 70s - the classic retiree smile shape portfolio. I haven’t loved that prospect but I guess we are doing exactly what he advocates by retiring early while we’re healthy and can enjoy it vs. reflexively OMYing to pile up more, more, more that we would not enjoy as much in the coming slow go years, if we’re lucky enough to make it that far.

+1
Glad I retired at 58 and can still do stuff. Presently working on my Dive master rating for PADI and going to neat places with family.

 

[youbet]

Good luck getting into a decent ALF w/o savings or hefty LTC policy.

Here I have a relative who was rejected from their first choice of ALF since they didn't have what the ALF considered sufficient lump sum assets.

Despite the fact that relative has both a COLA pension & decent monthly SS income.

Were the pension and SS enough to cover the entire ALF cost with a nice chunk of wiggle room?

 

[Golden Mean]

So how do we die with near zero?

A book of similar name by Mark Levine and Stephen Pollan describes a plan that ladders SPIA as you age.

 

[Markola]

+1
Glad I retired at 58 and can still do stuff. Presently working on my Dive master rating for PADI and going to neat places with family.

Cool!

 

[Gumby]

When we die, whatever is in the bank will be what's in the bank. I am not taking deliberate steps to make that number either more or less. I'm just living my life as I always have been (except for the working part). The young wife and I do what we want, when we want, and pay what it takes to do that. We don't have any children to worry about leaving an inheritance. Still, FIRECalc says our average portfolio ending balance if we live to 90 will be 8 digits, and more if we live longer. That's fine by me, as I can't think of anything else on which to spend money that would make me happier than I am now.

 

[ncbill]

Were the pension and SS enough to cover the entire ALF cost with a nice chunk of wiggle room?

Yep, but for whatever reason that particular ALF also wanted to see mid-6 figures in assets.

Which the relative didn't have...knowing they'd have a pension plus SS in retirement they spent their working years' income on nice vehicles, vacation home, travel, etc.

 

[Lewis Clark]

Assets usually give us choices. That's why I prefer to have assets. : )

We all know folks who make different choices.

 

[bmcgonig]

No gift tax or anything, but anything I spend is coming out of untaxed accounts, so shows as income. More income, less PTC. It wouldn't be impossible to gift while on ACA, just not tax efficient. After 65 gifting has a lower tax impact.

Gotcha. Thanks!

 

[ivinsfan]

Assets usually give us choices. That's why I prefer to have assets. : )

We all know folks who make different choices.

Wait you shouldn't enjoy life in the now before you stash away 500K for a possible assisted living center.?

 

[ivinsfan]

Yep, but for whatever reason that particular ALF also wanted to see mid-6 figures in assets.

Which the relative didn't have...knowing they'd have a pension plus SS in retirement they spent their working years' income on nice vehicles, vacation home, travel, etc.

Is there something wrong what that?

 

[Bigdawg]

Assets usually give us choices. That's why I prefer to have assets. : )

We all know folks who make different choices.

Another choice is to have both. That's what we are doing. We have multiple COLA pensions with a few more on the way. But, we also have high 6 figures in invested assets. Cherry on top is that we travel and enjoy life along the way.

 

[ncbill]

Is there something wrong what that?

Not as long as one can accept they might not get into their institution (e.g. ALF) of choice.

 

[Phroig]

I imagine the final few years before you die with zero are very stressful.

 

[Music Lover]

I imagine the final few years before you die with zero are very stressful.

For some it would be, but those people will be less likely to try to die with zero. But there are plenty of people that can get by on just their pension and/or SS or CPP. Their version of dying with zero would be to spend down their assets knowing that they will still collect a cheque every month until they die.

 

[FindingForward]

Another choice is to have both. That's what we are doing. We have multiple COLA pensions with a few more on the way. But, we also have high 6 figures in invested assets. Cherry on top is that we travel and enjoy life along the way.

You're very fortunate - congratulations. But this doesn't feel like actionable advice or a genuine "choice" for most Americans though, even ones who have saved well and invested as best they could. Few have a single pension, let alone "multiple COLA pensions." For them (including me) it's a daunting challenge to balance living it up today with also having plenty left over to afford a decent ALF or CCRC when we need it.

 

[Koolau]

So how do we die with near zero?

Die in a nursing home. Her parents and mine ended their days in a nursing home. Both spent virtually their last dollars to pay their last bill. YMMV

 

[ivinsfan]

Not as long as one can accept they might not get into their institution (e.g. ALF) of choice.

I think some would find that an acceptable trade off...because in reality even when in the ALF that money might not be spent.

 

[Koolau]

I imagine the final few years before you die with zero are very stressful.

One advantage of our parents' dementia was that they were unaware that they would die broke. So there was no financial stress. I don't recommend that, but it does have an advantage or two. YMMV

 

[ncbill]

I think some would find that an acceptable trade off...because in reality even when in the ALF that money might not be spent.

After having been in plenty of facilities I'd much rather die in a private room at an ALF which one can setup to resemble their bedroom at home.

Versus a semi-private room in a nursing home where no matter what one does still looks like a room in a hospital.

Plus they're stuck with an unwanted roommate.

Unless they're really unfortunate & end up in an older nursing home which still has wards.