Dining Out

[astromeria]

One of our weekly splurge meals in Italy was lunch at an expenisve seafood restaurant in Venice. We ordered seafood risotto for 2 at a price of 27 euros, and split a single-serving tomato salad and a bottle of wine. they nicely poured our shared wine into two glasses :, divided our salad onto two plates (generous servings)--and charged us 27 euros for EACH serving of risotto--apparently that was the per-serving price. It was delicious and unique, and one of the few meals from the trip that lingers in detail in the memory, but...an expensive lesson!

 

[Nords]

Guess that $150 a month might postpone FIRE by a few months. 

Hey, no one's advocating deprivation... only expressing preferences.

I'd be happy if someone shopped for our groceries and cooked the meals, but I'd be even happier if they cleaned up the kitchen!

 

[TromboneAl]

I'm lucky because we use the "I cook you clean" system (or v.v.). That works out great, because I much prefer cooking.

In more detail: The person who cooks puts the dishes in the dishwasher, and puts away the leftovers, and the other person does the rest.

 

[justin]

I'd be happy if someone shopped for our groceries and cooked the meals, but I'd be even happier if they cleaned up the kitchen!

I view dining out as just another form of "outsourcing".

Some have gardeners/landscape crews, some have maids, some have personal chefs or nannies. We have restaurants. One-off transactions paid on a contractual basis for goods delivered and services rendered.

 

[scrinch]

Our kids are supposed to clear the table and wash the dishes. It usually turns into the: "I cook and you stall, whine, and make excuses until it's time to go to bed" plan. If not for the educational aspects it would almost be easier and definitely less hassle to clean up myself! :

 

[Nords]

In more detail: The person who cooks puts the dishes in the dishwasher, and puts away the leftovers, and the other person does the rest.

You married veterans will understand my mistake, so here I'm just preaching to the newly-wed engineers.

Early in our marriage I made an offhand comment that a dishwasher could be more efficiently loaded if plates were racked in a certain manner, bowls in another, and so on.  It was just a mentally-idle engineering analysis that happened to escape across my vocal cords, one that I'd discussed many times with my father (who coincidentally is also an engineer).  I probably could have been more tactful (or at least indirect) and I bet I could have even kept my #$%^ing mouth shut.  

That was 20 years ago, or roughly 2000 dishwasher loads... and I've done 'em all.

Did I mention that I've invested considerable thought and submarine-force experience on the concept of stowing food in fridges, freezers, & pantries?

Our kids are supposed to clear the table and wash the dishes. It usually turns into the: "I cook and you stall, whine, and make excuses until it's time to go to bed" plan. If not for the educational aspects it would almost be easier and definitely less hassle to clean up myself! :

It's always easier & faster to do things for ourselves than to train someone else to do it... as I remind my kid whenever she "needs" us to do something for her.

 

[scrinch]

Did I mention that I've invested considerable thought and submarine-force experience on the concept of stowing food in fridges, freezers, & pantries?

...but I'll bet that you're smart enough to keep these thoughts to yourself, now...aren't you? Or do you want to start counting trips to the grocery store also?

 

[d]

i'm surprised by how often many of you eat out ... we (spouse and i) regularly do take-out once a week from a nearby resturant, averages about $40 (total).  it would be nice to actually go out, but there are mobility issues.

 

[Nords]

...but I'll bet that you're smart enough to keep these thoughts to yourself, now...aren't you?  Or do you want to start counting trips to the grocery store also?   

I'm getting there.

Hey, after two decades I'm still divesting myself of the responsibility for filling out the grocery list. I eventually realized that I was doing weekly inventories of all stowage and not teaching anyone to put their own darn items on "the list". You know, the Word document that's laid out by aisles and that highlights the most commonly purchased items...

 

[donheff]

I'm lucky because we use the "I cook you clean" system (or v.v.). That works out great, because I much prefer cooking.

It was the same for me when I was working. Now, with DW still working, I do the cooking and the cleaning. When my son comes over he cleans - not surprisingly, he gets a lot of invitations.

 

[Khan]

The only restaurant eating I've done in the past five years was my retirement luncheon (Feb '04).

8)

 

[scrinch]

You know, the Word document that's laid out by aisles and that highlights the most commonly purchased items...

You've got too much time on your hands. Maybe you should go back to work and burn off some of that excess orderliness!

 

[Nords]

You've got too much time on your hands.  Maybe you should go back to work and burn off some of that excess orderliness!

Yeah, and now that your kids are starting to leave the nest you have too much time on your hands, too, right?  There's never such a thing as too much time, and work was more about "burning out" than "burning off"!

We started that list as a way of getting through the store more quickly-- spending up-front time once to save it many times subsequently.  It evolved after each of our shopping trips.  I just wish our kid had been old enough to do the typing for us.

In ER I've learned to leave the regimented orderly workplace behind to embrace ambiguity.  In fact I still haven't decided what I'm going to do all day today... or maybe I've just abdicated that decision.

 

[TromboneAl]

You know, the Word document that's laid out by aisles and that highlights the most commonly purchased items...

That's the only way to fly. Got one for each store.

 

[TromboneAl]

I've invested considerable thought and submarine-force experience on the concept of stowing food in fridges, freezers, & pantries.

Any good tips?

 

[TromboneAl]

usually dine out about 2 times per month at a nice restuarant. The Cost is usually around $125 for both

Uh oh. Wait till HaHa hears about this!

 

[Tadpole]

Does buying 2 ice cream cones at Safeway ($2) after a 4 mile walk on the C&O canal trail count as "eating out"?  Or the mini-Hershey's bar ($0.15) I sometimes buy at the concession stand for an afternoon snack?  If so, then I ate out twice in the last week.

Depends on how much you made selling the bikers spare tubes.

 

[Nords]

Any good tips?

Thanks for asking!
Cupboards & pantries:
Hurricane food goes in the attic or you'll have to keep buying more when the kid eats it "by mistake".
Move the new stuff to the back, use the old stuff from the front. No cherrypicking.
No glass containers. Especially oil bottles, but let's not dwell on that mishap.
Heavy baking supplies (flour, sugar, mixes) go on the bottom.
Flour & sugar belong in ziploc bags (ants).
Rice bags heavier than 10 pounds belong in the garage in airtight containers (roaches, rats). Metal trash cans work great.
Canned goods go on eye-level shelves so that labels can be read without emptying the entire cupboard.
Cereal boxes get their own cupboard, unless you have a pet that can open cupboard doors.
Yummy baking supplies (icing, decorations) go on the top shelf above a teenager's visual horizon.
Hallowe'en candy-- most especially lollipops-- belongs in ziploc bags (ants). If a lollipop wrapper is loose then I won't eat the lollipop, but I don't want to dwell on that one either.

Freezers:
Side-by-side refrigerator/freezers enclose less stowage volume than over-under models.
In-door ice/water dispensers are a waste of energy, maintenance, and money.
Icemakers are generally more trouble than ice-cube trays, especially if the water supply is not demineralized.
Overloaded freezer doors don't seal tightly.

If the ice cream freezes solid then the freezer is too cold. Just to be sure, it's best to taste-test this frequently.
Chocolate chips taste better when they're frozen solid. If you don't share this trick with the rest of your family then they last longer, too.
Shredded cheese can freeze. Many brands sell a four-cup bag of shredded cheese for nearly the same price as a two-cup bag.
TH's frozen-butter trick is one of the best baking tips I've ever read.
Freeze the ground beef & fish filets in individual one-pound packages for easy stacking & recipe doubling.
Milk can freeze but it can also split the plastic container seam.
Color-coded freezer bags are great for identifying leftover meat, chicken, fish, etc.
Frozen coffee doesn't last longer but it eliminates complaints about the smell from the uncaffeinated.

If you freeze cooking grease/oil for later disposal, make sure you inform all teenagers in the vicinity before they go looking for a snack. This is especially important if they're allowed to use your bathrooms, or not near an exit.

Refrigeration:
Cheap light bulbs burn out faster, break easier, and cut more severely than appliance-rated bulbs.
If you're right-handed, do NOT inform a left-handed person that the refrigerator & freezer door hinges are reversible.
New refrigerators use a LOT less energy and may pay it back in just a few years.
The refrigerator is one of the house's most fire-proof containers (short of a fireproof safe) and a great place to store backup DVDs.
Many refrigerators have trouble controlling the temperature of the top shelf, which may freeze if it's below the freezer. Save the top shelf for canned goods and breads. Do not store fruits on the top shelf. DVDs seem to survive OK.
Many smaller leftovers containers-- individual meal-sized-- pack the volume bettter.
Breads refrigerate or even freeze but they do not go in cupboards.
Beer lasts longer when stored in the back of the refrigerator behind the yogurt. If you don't share this trick, etc.
The special ventilated plastic bags are great for lettuce.
Compost containers are best if they're see-through, prominently labeled, and on the bottom shelf. Notify all teenagers in the vicinity, etc.
Same guidance for the bunny's timothy hay, although the consequences aren't nearly as severe.

And finally, don't let small kids get at Mom's special small bottle of "Bailey's chocolate milk". Teenagers are probably a bad idea, too...

Anyone else lie awake at night thinking about this subject?

 

[Khan]

Many refrigerators have trouble controlling the temperature of the top shelf, which may freeze if it's below the freezer. Save the top shelf for canned goods and breads. Do not store fruits on the top shelf. DVDs seem to survive OK.

I have a fridge with the freezer on the bottom.

Not dropping a 3 pound frozen chicken on your foot - priceless.

 

[ladelfina]

Compost containers are best if they're see-through, prominently labeled, and on the bottom shelf. Notify all teenagers in the vicinity, etc.

Nords.. are your teens THAT hungry?


The Word-processed list is too "dry" and impersonal-looking for me.. I wouldn't want to have to keep track of the aisle numbers (and in our store they aren't numbered anyway). I do write out the list in two columns and group things by "zone", leaving space for additions.. There's the fresh veg. zone, meat zone, dairy zone, drinks zone, etc.

I find it easier and more pleasant to cook if I do some storage prep work first:
I wrap sausages in plastic one-by-one so I can easily pull out the quantity I need and they defrost faster. Same thing with pork chops, steaks and chicken breast slices (slice them in 2-3 horizontally and they cook faster and more evenly.. no more tough chicken!).

If I get the urge to make gnocchi or meatballs I always make extra and freeze them set out on trays; then when they're frozen in they go into a ZipLoc for freezer storage. I love having homemade frozen "convenience food" on hand!

Eating out for us here is not such a draw: the restaurants all serve the same things (1. because tourists want to eat the 'local specialties' and 2. because Italians are very parochial in their eating habits and don't go for 'imported' ingredients or techniques). The exception is pizza once every week or two.

Astromeria.. oo sorry you got zapped with the risotto; €27 does sound like a double portion price to me (though Venice is $$$ with lots of $$$$ places). Depends, too, on the ingredients.. we had a lobster in Naples that set us back almost $100, and in my "Harry's Bar" (Venice) cookbook he's got more than one recipe for lobster.. : Care to name the restaurant?

Leaving for the US next week and looking forward to a LOT of restaurant meals and take-out.
Bluefish! Thai! Indian! Chinese! Mexican! Sushi!

 

[justin]

That's the only way to fly. Got one for each store.

Al,

Elephants on aisle 7? Funny guy...

 

[TromboneAl]

Thanks for the tips.  Here's our system:

All of our rubbermaid containers get a number on the lid with permanent marker.  Then, when something gets frozen, that number gets associated with that item on the sheet on the front of the freezer.  On this sheet, for example, the chicken soup container has the number 10 on the top.

Don't make any conclusions about our diet from what we freeze.  We do eat things other than bacon, salt pork, pork chops etc.  

Note that we usually forget to cross something off when we take it out.

 

[TromboneAl]

Now this part of the system works quite well:

This calendar sheet (from computer) is magnetted onto the front of the freezer.   A line is drawn through each day. 

Above the line, you write down what is to be defrosted on that day, and below, what is to be eaten for dinner on that day. 

 

[ladelfina]

Wow Al... WAYY too complex for me.. I can't imagine having to match up "Pesto" => "82" and then a month later "Pesto" => "37"?? If something risks being too "mysterious" I'll put a tape label on it.

Calendar is great.. I should do that! But if I'm defrosting I will just pull it out in the AM for that night.

How many are in your household? And, who does the deciding?

 

[Nords]

Above the line, you write down what is to be defrosted on that day, and below, what is to be eaten for dinner on that day. 

Master, this grasshopper is not worthy of your tutelage!

Gosh, I can't wait until my spouse wakes up so I can share this with her... "Mornin', honey, guess what we could do!"