Do you credit anyone or anything else besides yourself for your financial success?

I don't know. I grew up in a lower middle class neighborhood. My best friend, who lived just across the street, had a brother who was about two years younger. Neither of them finished high school which was pretty common in my area. My friends younger bother seemed to always be in trouble... My friend (and I) always worked hard and steady through our teen years holding all sorts of jobs. (often at the same places). By the time my friend was in his early 20's he went back to high school (nights) and then on to college on his own nickel, and eventually became an MD. His bother was in an out of jail until he was finally sent to prison for 5 years (IIRC). When he got out he was killed in a few years. (Don't recall how)


Luck? Choices?
 
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I think several of your points support this notion, but I think you would agree that things would have been better if your winnings in the ovarian lottery had been better. Not to diss your parents at all, but just to observe that the cards you were dealt ref life circumstances were a tougher hand to play than my cards were.

Not necessarily :). Materially, they likely would have been better. But, as I mentioned before - perhaps not clearly - knowing that I had advantages might not have instilled a drive in me to try to excel. I might have have more of an "entitled" attitude that made me feel I deserved things just because of whom I am, instead of seeking to earn things Likewise my parents might have different attitudes that would have influenced me. To use a football analogy, I made have started at the 20 yard line instead of the end zone, but may have felt I could jog through life instead of developing speed to get to the other end. :)

I am not saying this is a universal truth for everyone, but in my case I believe it is a factor :). I (and my siblings) can see some of the differences in our children. All of my siblings graduated from college (3 others from Ivy League school as well), and all except me have graduate or professional degrees. Our children were raised in a much better environment, all were born in, or by the age of 2 lived in - single family homes in nice communities. Many have equaled or passed our achievements, but there is a greater degree of entitlement among them relative to ours, and in some cases they in truth do not have the drive we do. Not necessarily bad, just different :).
 
Grew up in a low middle class environment. With my Dad passing away when I was 21 years old, leaving me (the eldest) to take care of 4 siblings and a huge debt that my Dad left for us to pay, and going on to getting full scholarships for college, my Master's, my MBA, and a full scholarship for my PhD, I'd say I'm a self-made person. Obviously, I've had words of encouragement from family and friends and a supportive DW. My family says "I'm lucky". I think that's luck from hard work and for finding opportunities for my career, like I had to go to the British embassy to see if there was any scholarship for me - and that's how I got my MBA 100% free. The Economist (the economist magazine) also advertised for a full PhD scholarship in a European country - I applied for that and got it, besting 100+ applicants for that 1 scholarship. I never won the lottery, but wish I would someday - then that would be "Pure Luck" :)
 
Jesus and my parents. My parents were super frugal and taught me to be. They avoided debt and renting.
 
IMHO, that "certain amount of dumb luck" you've had is 100%. IOW, luck is the entire reason why you are as financially successful as you are, and it's why anyone is as financially successful as they are. If you really think about it, every single thing about "you" came from places, people, or events entirely not of your doing. You were born to parents who gave you their DNA and raised you in a certain manner and environment, none of which you chose or controlled. Various people came into your life—friends, teachers, relatives, etc.—and influenced you in ways that shaped you as a person. Various random, unpredictable events happened that profoundly affected your life (e.g., you came across a book or TV show or magazine article that resonated with you). Not one single thing about your financial success, or about any aspect of your life or anyone else's, is due to anything other than pure luck. Very difficult for most people to accept this, but IMHO it's clearly true.

Some people will push back on this and say "Sure, I didn't choose my genes or the way I was raised, but I did control my good decision making. It was ME who decided to take that class in personal finance and investing and who decided to study hard and graduate with honors so I could get a high-paying job, etc., etc." But the obvious fallacy in this line of thinking is that your decision making comes from your brain, and your brain at any moment is just a combination of your genetics (not of your doing), your upbringing (not of your doing), and all the things that have happened to you throughout life (not of your doing). Luck really is everything.


Ummm... I would not go that far. Luck is not the only ingredient.

Successful people should reflect on the events that could derail their life if they unfolded differently.

Unsuccessful people should reflect on the opportunities that they missed, and how to make their life better going forward.

It is true that if you were born into a sub-Saharan family, your prospect would be dim, if not completely dark. But most of us were not. What else could we blame?

People born in the US or a developed country are not in such desolate conditions. Can they do better? Surely they can.

If you measure success by financial yardsticks, I could have done better than I have. But that required more work, and I didn't wanna. :)

I retired early, did I not? I was lazy. I already got more money than I spend. Heh heh heh...
 
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- (Thread title) Do you credit anyone or anything else besides yourself for your financial success?

BTW, "financial success" is not defined, so shall I presume this is subjective?

- God, Country, parents, a good Catholic Highschool, and DH.

OP Question - So here’s the question: what do you think contributed to our admittedly better outcome than most?


Assuming for argument sake "our admittedly better outcome than most":


IMHO, a combination of things, including the aforementioned God, Country, parents, a good Catholic Highschool, and DH, no financial catastrophies along the way, combined with a lot of hard work, avoiding debt (other than mortgage), interest in financial independence, and steady savings.
 
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To add to my post at #8.

Were it not for this forum (and an assist from Jim Cramer), I'd likely have sold 'everything' I had in the market back in 2008/09. The good folks here helped keep me grounded and in the market.

After that learning experience, I've become quite sanguine about market volatility.
 
Good fortune. My high-school dropout father had a job at a big local company and he got me in the door for summer work while in college. Made a good impression. Couple years later asked if I could go back and got hired full-time. Had a knack for seeing what superiors wanted before they asked, that helped me get a few promotions. The job actually got easier as my salary went up. Luck extended to never being out of work until I called it quits.

A compatible spouse. They say opposites attract but all I ever saw was opposites fighting. We are on the same wavelength on finances, faith and dealing with family. There is no kinder person on the planet.
 
I owe a lot to my Darling Wife....

me too. and to her brother, Steve. i don't credit myself at all.

we married very young (19 & 18) in 1970...not a care in the world and not a thought beyond tomorrow. a few years later we were planning the honeymoon we never had and realized that we couldn't afford it due to owing $1000 on a K-Mart credit card. we delayed the trip, paid off the card (and haven't carried a balance since then) and started thinking about our fiinancial future...passbook savings and CDs. that's what i knew.

Enter, Steve. in the early 1980's, without my knowledge he convinced his sister to make a modest investment in mutual funds with 20th Century. I learned about it when the first monthly statement came. WTH?! But Steve had been investing in mutual funds for quite some time and I trusted him. From that beginning I learned the value of investing and by the time a year had passed we went at investing in MGs big time. first, mirroring Steve's selection of funds and then doing our own research and fund selection. Next came IRA's, then Roths and then our employers began offering 457b accounts. we maxed out or nearly maxed out each. by this time we had shed all debt but our mortgage and living waaaaay beneath our means investing heavily every month.

we dreamed of and actually did retire at 55 and were lucky to have DB pensions. our mortage was paid off several years before retirement and we were still investing each month. i clearly remember being stunned when our net worth crossed into 7-figures for the first time! we now have a net worth that neither of us had ever dreamed of. we're donating much to charity these days, being generous with family and doing legacy planning. we have no financial cares, want for nothing and still live modestly in our 1960's era 3-BR, 2-bath split level and driving 19 and 12-year old cars.

who do i thank? my BIL and wife for dragging me into investing and the market for the spectacular run it's had. life isn't good....it's grrrreat!! :dance:
 
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Hard to quantify, but luck has to be a strong majority with a few good decisions (again partly luck) mixed in. Probably wouldn't have had the realization to say that a few years ago, but between getting involved in some volunteer work in recent years, all the COVID complications across many industries, and trying to be open to more perspectives, it has become clear how very different things could have been for us with just a few changes here and there.

Haven't had to struggle too much along the way - good health and always safe home and food/needs covered. A lot of opportunities available just because of where/when/who I was born. I've done some work, but can't say I've worked significantly harder than most.

From a financial perspective, probably the best thing to happen to us was a set of layoffs and reduced hours at my MicroCorp job about 2 years in. Everything had been going along until a hiccup with some funding came up and gave me the realization that nothing was guaranteed in terms of job/income. Found the whole FIRE concept at that time, and made significant changes to realign our spending etc. so that now 10 years later we are fortunate to be in a position with a great deal of flexibility.
 
- My career and personal financial life had the element of "this is privilege, do not take it for granted, there is no safety net" fear. I saved very well, invested okay, and always sought to personally "prove myself to myself" during my working career.

While this "fear" might have seemed stressful, it was not. I found as long as I felt I did my best, I was at peace, regardless of the outcome. Because part of my "luck" was, even at times of failure, others will notice your efforts, so all is not lost :D.

I differ with those who attribute everything to luck, as they tend to assume that the "luck" that benefits someone is always "good luck". But there were many instances where I experienced "bad Luck" than in the long run turned out to bring me to a more successful path than the "good luck" would have.

Some really good thoughts here. I lived in fear of ending up old and poor and it really drive me to stash money away as soon as I got out of college. I overdid it while still enjoying life along the way) and am reaping the rewards.:D

I've also had a few "forced" job moves- either downsizing, merger or seeing the job going away (shaky consulting firm, work drying up)- and I generally ended up someplace better. This biggest was having to find a job in late 2001 in a suburb of NYC. Nada and I had 3 recruiters beating the bushes. The only decent opportunity was in a suburb of Kansas City. My new DH had been raised there, DS took to it easily when he started college in Des Moines and housing costs were MUCH lower so we had more money to stash away (and to travel). I'm still here. My mortgage payment (principla and interest only) is $700/month on a house I love.
 
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Yeah, born here, male & white. Pops was an electrical engineer, stay at home Mom, got the parental funded degree in electrical engineering and worked in a recession proof ever expanding field, industrial automation.

Then all I needed to know about finance was taught by Pops;

All I needed to know about finance I learned from Pops. He was a man of few words.

1) You can make a million a year but if you spend a million a year you aren't going to have anything, so save some. These savings while small but growing will enable you to buy furniture and appliances without credit.

2) When you've saved enough for a down payment, buy a house. The difference between rent and mortgage is small and the government helps you with interest and you keep building equity. The mortgage should be your only debt.

3) When your savings have recovered from the down payment and the move in expenses, start buying stocks. That's where you'll make the most.

That's really close to my situation except for a few details. My dad's financial philosophy was
1) don't eat any more seed corn than you have to, and all your corn is seed corn
2) never ever borrow money for any reason, plant only the seed corn that you have
3) trade stocks by reading the tape to know which ones and when to move

Even though I took pride in defying my dad whenever it made sense to me, I picked up on (1) and (2), but I doubt it's genetic because two of my siblings spent and borrowed freely once leaving the nest. I did drift away on (3) because I prefer financial statements over the tape, although after Dad passed and I reviewed his trading records, I found that he was doing well, even during the 1974 bear market. Just one serious mistake, and I believe its root cause was over-concentration in a single position.

As for the intrinsic/extrinsic debate let's just say that supporters of the winning team rarely question the referee's calls. IMO it's important to listen carefully to the complaints.

I remember decades ago shooting hoops in high school with a classmate, a guy who I thought was cognitively well above average but who didn't take his schoolwork or grades seriously. I asked why he wasn't going to college. His answer "my uncle's a foreman". He then explained how as a new hire straight out of high school, he'll be pulling in a bit more than what a new college grad would earn without even counting overtime. Back in those days college tuition was cheap, so the main hit came from the opportunity cost of the four years without full-time pay. He acknowledged how unfair it was that I (who had no steel mill connections) needed to "study my tail off" to match his soon-to-be income, and how I still would never catch up to him in lifetime earnings.

We lost contact after high school, but from what I read, his employer went bust years later as part of the "rust belt collapse". Hopefully he landed on his feet, but I'm pretty sure given the number of people who were caught in the tsunami, many who made a reasonable decision in high school were badly hurt financially. It's also why I advised my nephews to study engineering-- but prepare for major career disruptions by staying in touch with classmates and developing secondary income sources. And of course never eat your seed corn.
 
I credit the 10 Rules, they are obvious and not all personally mine. I wrote these when Money Magazine wrote an article on my early retirement. More of a teaser for them than myself. No: 11 is not a rule but a recommendation but a statement. But we pretty much lived by them. Sorry for the long post.

1. "Pay yourself first" (I invented this phrase in the late 1980's) before Suzie Orman did, she just made a ton of money from it, the story of my life) I do agree with most of her ideas. This means save for retirement first, then spend. We both put MAX into our 401K funds a long as we were eligible working in the USA, from 1988 onwards. My recommendation is 30% of income where possible. This is what we did, only tapping it for large bills like, home and auto insurance, and house taxes.

2. "Make goals and honor them" We made a commitment towards early retirement early in our relationship. Basically a year after we were married, we both had similar goals in this area. It is important to make goals and exceed hem where possible.

3. Save your "Not Money", do not waste it. "Not Money" (I should trademark the phrase, but It was my sister's invention) is money you earn or make that is not part of your daily routine. for example. a Bonus is Not Money, If you have a hobby that is not your major source of income, the profits are Not Money, if you win a lottery, that is Not Money, If you sell your lawn mower at a garage sale, that is Not Money, A Tax Refund in Not Money. We either put ours into our home by reducing mortgage payments or into our retirement nest egg.

4. "Live within Your Means" Simply put do not spend more than you earn.

5. "Do NOT Live off Credit" We do not care what a credit card's interest rate is, we NEVER have to use it. PAY IT OFF at the end of the month... PERIOD! We only have 2 credit cards, an AT&T Universal MasterCard Rewards and a Delta Skymiles Rewards Amex. The reasons I am sure are obvious. By the way we use them for everything, groceries (even $5.00 dollars worth) ANYTHING we can pay by credit we do NO EXCEPTION, we simply pay it off every month. In all our lives we have NEVER been delinquent on any bill at all. If we do not have the money we do not spend it. Simple, but effective.

6. "Capitalize in Your Own Situation" All of us are different, we all have different ways of earning money. In my case, I was paid 85% salary 15% commission, I traveled extensively and my expenses were covered at actual. I used to always use my own credit card for expenses. Why let the company get the credit rating? I paid all my expenses from my salary, when the expense check came it went into my Nest Egg. The only time we touched the Nest Egg was as mentioned earlier for large bills. But in General this was one the main ways I used to save. Some people use Direct Deposit, I used my expense money. Oh and by the way we have an excellent credit rating to this day.

7. "Do Not Go Without" Simply buy wisely and save for larger luxuries. I have had many Sports cars (My passion as a younger man) and toys in my time. I never borrowed to get them. I always had a "Car Money" account for the big toy car, when I sold it, the account was revived again. The only time we got any form of long term credit was when a vendor offered a 1 or 2 years same as cash (No Interest). Then we paid it off on the due date. An example of these types of spending were, a 55" Big Screen TV ($3700), A solid wood Bedroom Suite (~$3000) and so on. All other major items, and there were many, were purchased with a credit card and paid off in full at the end of the month. We purchased them just after the invoice from the credit card company so we got the full month to pay.

8. "Let the Government Help" This works as part of Rule 6. As a commissioned sales person, I was able to write off my company car, home office and other business expenses that were solely used for business. As I worked mostly from home, and had a private car for personal use, this was a no brainer. I must disagree with Suzie Orman on this one. I leased my cars that I used for work for as long as I can remember, and they were good ones too. Lexus 400, Acura Legend, Audi S4 etc. All Brand New. They provided me with an excellent source of deductions. As I only did about 10,000 miles per year, I could always sell the car privately just before the end of the lease (about 3 months) and usually make more than enough to pay off the lease early.

9. "Relax Take a Vacation" We always put aside money to relax, we took nice vacations, just not EXPENSIVE ones. We did however go to Australia, New Zealand, Hawaii, Korea, Indonesia (Bali), Singapore, Thailand and Europe. We took some Cruises. We just budgeted carefully. Again, we NEVER went without.

10. "Preserve Your Capital, Sleep at Night" This is more applicable as you closer to retirement. I find it a lot harder to make money once it is lost or spent as opposed to preserving it in the first place. Almost anyone can save a little. We just settled for less interest than the risky investments.

11. More of a statement and a loose recommendation than a rule. Read "The Millionaire Next Door" If I was to choose a publication, it would be this one. As all books, it exaggerates the extremes. However, if you drive gown the middle of the road, so to speak, it will guide you to retirement. I would say it is a must read along with Bernstein's "Four Pillars of Investing"
 
I'd say it was 80%+ hard work and a very strong work ethic. The other ~20 was luck/good fortune/or whatever.

My basic secret(s) to success. (somewhat In order)

Hard work (and long hours)
Finding my motivated abilities and exploiting them
Learning how to play the game very well (yep, company politics :(
Professional education (much more important than any degree(s)


Oh, and having a understanding spouse sure didn't hurt either.
After thinking about this some more, I'll give some credit to my dad too. His reluctance to switch jobs for better opportunities and much higher pay held him back (IMO). He was even offered a better and higher paying position within the same company several times but wouldn't take it... :facepalm: Didn't trust banks, never bought stock, was a super saver... Not me!
 
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Good question!

We are all the result of many variables, but some are pretty clear winners in the US:
- white, middle class parents
- hard work ethic parents
- saving ethic parents
- brighter than the average (most herein probably were compared to their age peers in elementary school, high school?)
- incredible fortune to fall in love with and marry a very smart, wonderful, educated and thrifty woman

Some add ons as one ages and learns:
- disciplined approaches learned from work groups (mine were military and technical aerospace)
- not simply responding to situations, but asking why they occurred and what options were available to navigate the situations
- travel to see how others accomplish life and work
- being stressed repeatedly by work and life efforts to allow a better balance, and to reinforce the need to be able to multi-task

Then, we are all the result of our own efforts:
- early understanding that one should listen to smart people
- early understanding that reading a lot is very important
- increasing self awareness
- hard work at every endeavor; there is no such thing as "it doesn't matter"
- research required for any and all things
- never pay someone to do something that I reasonable for you to do yourself (ex: I have always done most all car and home maintenance/repair, taxes, investing, etc)
- take some thoughtful risks when appropriate (buying rental real estate when the market is down)
- not buying high

Yeah, as I write this I also think of the many things I did wrong, didn't understand until too late, etc. Hmmm ... learning from one's mistakes.

I have something to consider over a martini, today.
 
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For financial success, some credit goes to:

I credit my parents for being poor and telling me tales of the depression and WWII rationing, it taught me things could be worse than we were currently living.
Being poor, my parents often and without worry would tell me "NO we don't have the money" when I wanted some silly toy.
They taught me NOT to spend money :LOL:

I also credit my HS gym teacher Mr. Frasier as he built up a stockpile of sports equipment by having us kids pick up a broken/discarded piece of equipment on the way to school. Over a couple of years it was enough for entire classes to try new sports.
He also taught a few weeks of Home money management, why buying a house was smart and getting in debt was bad.
Many of his lessons were things my parents couldn't teach me as they didn't own a house.

My Uncle, taught me by example that investments were more than a savings account in the bank. That a person could buy stock, and to not worry as it went up and down.
My parents never owned stock so it was the only exposure I got.
 
I credit shitty bosses. If not for having to work for complete idiots who had an evil streak, I probably would not have worked toward financial independence with as much commitment as I did. By 45 I had paid off the house, no credit debt and both boys through college. By 50 I was financially independent. Retired at 55.
 
I credit shitty bosses. If not for having to work for complete idiots who had an evil streak, I probably would not have worked toward financial independence with as much commitment as I did. By 45 I had paid off the house, no credit debt and both boys through college. By 50 I was financially independent. Retired at 55.

I also credit my dad. I remember vividly when my mom had overspent at the grocery store or buying us back-to-school clothes, or even just a pair of shoes how he would howl and carry on that we were going to be in the poor house or out on the street. I took him quite literally; he was not a joking father. I kept imagining living on the street, if I would actually be in lanes of traffic or at the curb and if at the curb, how to deal with the water when it rained, and the gutters flowed. I swore to myself to never get behind on debt and save so I would never have to live on the street.
 
I also credit my dad. I remember vividly when my mom had overspent at the grocery store or buying us back-to-school clothes, or even just a pair of shoes how he would howl and carry on that we were going to be in the poor house or out on the street. I took him quite literally; he was not a joking father.
Sounds far to familiar to me.
 
I credit shitty bosses. If not for having to work for complete idiots who had an evil streak, I probably would not have worked toward financial independence with as much commitment as I did. By 45 I had paid off the house, no credit debt and both boys through college. By 50 I was financially independent. Retired at 55.

It wasn't just certain Bosses (some were actually OK) but going way back:

Out-to-lunch parents, bullshot teachers at every level, then the Bosses.

I remember having to buy tires for my father's car once because he "couldn't afford it." I was constantly "loaning him '5' till payday" when I was 10 years old. And I had to pay to fix the TV because they "couldn't afford it" and after 3 or 4 days we were all about to kill each other. (I recall it was $25 bucks in 1969. That'd be about $200 today. Unlike them I didn't have a job) And these were the people responsible for keeping food on the table. I was never going to let myself be that dependent again on incompetent twits to keep living in this world. "Never mind, I'll do it myself," became my philosophy of life. To do that you need money.
 
I say it's all down to me. I just have an amazing ability to free ride off the efforts of other people.
 
My and DH’s parents’ frugality taught us frugal ways. They also helped us a lot, giving us an old car when my FIL died. My dad invested in oil company stock with each paycheck and never sold any of it, so the inheritance was a nice help, bringing us to fatter FIRE rather than a lean FIRE.
 
I credit God. Some call it luck, but I prefer to attribute it to a divine power.

Mechanically, NW Bound has it about right. I would add that however DW came into my life and stayed here has been nothing short of a gift from God. Don’t get me wrong, life hasn’t been all peaches and cream, but she has been one great partner through all we’ve been through and her financial leanings have made a huge difference in our financial success.

I've been traveling (back to the oft mentioned homestead) or I probably would have written this first.

In spite of making every financial mistake in the book, I have "enough." But all I can claim credit for is using the good sense that God gave me to save, save, SAVE and to grab onto the special woman He sent my way.

I know friends (I often mention BFF) who made as much as I did and have nothing (or negative) to show for it. I thank God often for blessing me and I try to bless others along the way. YMMV
 
I differ with those who attribute everything to luck, as they tend to assume that the "luck" that benefits someone is always "good luck". But there were many instances where I experienced "bad Luck" than in the long run turned out to bring me to a more successful path than the "good luck" would have.


Have you considered that your saving grace or good luck may have been your parents who as strivers had set expectations for what they wanted for their son? I’ve volunteered with refugee families and I have seen great success stories across the board from the children who like you lived in tough urban areas and went to the same rough schools some of the people you described came from.
 
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