Don't know what to do

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

Well, not to be harsh, but...

all I'm hearing from you are reasons and excuses for why you are not breaking out of your rut. I wouldn't presume to make specific suggestions about what to do and when, but until you start thinking creatively, positively and quantitatively you will get nowhere. Tried this, can't do that, can't ever make up for my guilt, blah blah blah.

Really can't sell the business? Then screw it - wrap it up and find another job. Not depressed (really?), then get over it and think about your plans and get to it -- by the way, I agree with Meadh's impression that several cardinal signs of depression are present. Maybe that is just situational but all the more reason to get moving. If you truly have clinical depression, that needs to be taken care of NOW. Then move on.

So, since Santa Claus or the genie in the lamp are probably not going to rescue you, get a plan, get advice about it wherever you can, and get on with it.

Sorry if this sounds insensitive, but it reflects my gut reaction to your posts. Sounds like you are a hard worker, have a strong skill set, have managed to save some real money and have all he basic ingredients. You are now officially your own worst enemy.

 

[Jane_Doe]

My Dream,

For what it's worth:

My husband was a contractor with his own business for almost 25 years. His stress level and blood pressure were just getting higher and higher as time went on. We had some money set aside so a couple years ago when things started to point towards pulling the plug, we JUST DID IT. We have used some of that money to live on (I run asmall business myself that he now helps with - our kids are off to college - another story). Anyway, spend some of that money, take some time to get your head staright and you may be very surprised at what is out there in life - opportunities and experieneces that you couldn't see before. Stop feeling guilty about what is past. Change what you can change about the NOW, now.

I believe we all get nudges and pushes from above trying to get us to move in a certain direction in our lives. Often we are too busy and don't notice these "signs" or chose to ignore them. Don't wait till you end up getting what I call a "shove" from above - something you can't ignore that drastically changes your life FOR you.

I also must agree with the two doctors as well as the other posters who are concerned for your mental health (aren't we lucky to have such a diverse group here). Suicide is NOT an option - if you are thinking of it - let someone know and make sure that you get help right away. Suicide never helps and it can truly DEVASTATE your family. Speaking from experience.

We all wish you the best. Let us know how you are doing.

Jane

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

The real estate market is still hot in western Canada and so is renovation.

(I tink Taranna is still in eastern Canada. )

But, oh, yes! Renovation is a very good business out here in Alberta, but I would not advise our friend to make any major life changes for now except drop the job ASAP.

I suggest:
1) Quit the job.
2) Take a rest, at least until spring.
3) Don't make any hasty financial decisions under stress, but do minimize your spending for a while. No point in digging yourself into a hole.
4) Count your blessings again. This should help with your feelings of depression.
5) Do see a doctor about your feelings.

There are a few Canadian-specific web sites that may help you sort out what you want to do money-wise:
http://forums.canadianbusiness.com/index.jspa
http://www.financialwebring.com/
(Many good sites. 'gummy's' web site has a ton of good stuff, but well-buried and I can't follow much of his math, but you don't need to.)

Derek Foster is a neighbor of yours who got famous for retiring early. Read about him here:
http://www.retireearlyhomepage.com/stopwork.html and
http://forums.canadianbusiness.com/thread.jspa?messageID=126937&tstart=0

Best of luck. Take care of your health.

Let us know how it goes.

Cheers,

Ed

 

[virginia]

I agree with Jane Doe - just DO it. It's what you know personally that you really need, you're just worried about the future. Many peope have found themselves simply out of work with no savings, no prospects, blah, blah, blah.
You're saying now that you just want to quit and not go back to work - who could blame you? You are under such an incredible amount of stress - it must be hard to think about working at all.
If you just do it - who knows, in a year or two - you may feel completely different. Another poster said something about doing home kitchen installations and such. Can you IMAGINE how easy for you that would be? You'd just be dealing with different tools, but the same concept, and it would be a BREEZE for you. I think that you're not able to see this clearly because of the complete and total burnout that you're under right now. Life is too short - do what is best for you. If you do that, things will fall into place as far as taking care of your family.

 

[Brat]

"Kitchen Consultant" is a real profession, at least on the west coast. It seem that everyone wants to have a kitchen that makes them look like they really know what they are doing. You know the commercial end, leverage that knowledge to cater to the consumer want-to-be. You really do have skills that are marketable. Try developing a website aimed at the home-owner and see what happens.

 

[AltaRed]

There are a few Canadian-specific web sites that may help you sort out what you want to do money-wise:
http://forums.canadianbusiness.com/index.jspa
http://www.financialwebring.com/
(Many good sites. 'gummy's' web site has a ton of good stuff, but well-buried and I can't follow much of his math, but you don't need to.)

Derek Foster is a neighbor of yours who got famous for retiring early. Read about him here:
http://www.retireearlyhomepage.com/stopwork.html and
http://forums.canadianbusiness.com/thread.jspa?messageID=126937&tstart=0

Was away for a few days and just read this thread. Will only add a few comments on the financial side as regards being a DIY investor. I would specifically suggest you read the Financial Planning thread here.

http://financialwebring.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=101652

There is a wealth of information in the Investing and Implementation sections of that thread. Putting all your eggs in GICs is not the right answer for reasons already cited (inflation), but an asset allocation that includes a mix of equities and fixed income probably is. It can be done as simply as ~5 ETFs via a discount broker like TD Waterhouse, BMO Investorline, or E*Trade. IG is NOT where you want to be....very expensive and very vested interests.

I would consider Barclay's XIU ETF for broad TSX60 market, or if you want to have a bit more dividend, try XDV instead. I would also add some XSP to catch the S&P500 and it is currency hedged to the C$. I would also include some XIN for International exposure, also currency hedged to the C$. I would include XSB for Short term bond index for some of your fixed income component and also a similar amount of laddered GICs to assure yourself of capital preservation.

Income trusts are going through a bit of a shakedown right now on energy prices and would not suggest entering them at this time. If you do decide on a few income trusts, stick with a few of the largest ones that are also being bought by money managers and institutions... not the small ones only being bought and sold by the retail market.

A good REIT like RioCan is also a potential add. The RE market in Canada, particularly on the commercial/retail side like RioCan, is not in a shakedown mode as it is in various places in the US.

 

[Caroline]

As for my kid’s education, I feel that this is a present I want to give or help them with since I wasn't there for them when I was a workaholic.

Well... it's your life, of course.

That said, this is a CHOICE you are making -- you are not being forced to support your children through college OR to pay for their weddings.

If you're not going to make any changes to what you have CHOSEN to do, it might help to reframe your view of them -- they are options YOU have selected, and not decisions that were foisted upon you by others.

Slavery has been outlawed in these United States.

 

[My Dream]

Sorry for being away from the forum for a couple of days.
Now back to the matter at hand. In reading some of the responses, I believe that this thread has gone a bit off topic, and I must get one thing straight, in no way have I mentioned the word suicide let alone thought about it. I did see where the work was used but it wasn't by me. Suicide in NOT an option for me and we don't even need to go there. I'm a bit depressed but as was mentioned, if depressed remove yourself from what's making you depressed. That's exactly what I want to do.
The bottom line is have I generated enough capital to be able to obtain "My Dream" of being in a position to retire early. That dream was supposed to happen in 3 years, but I'm at a point in my life where I feel my work has overwhelmed me and I need to leave and retire now. By doing so, I can regain my marriage which has already started, become a better father to my kids, by being there every day, and stop being depressed due to my work situation. Based on my actions during the last year, I believe I may have already retired since I don't have any more work lined up.
My question always remained, based on the information already given and any other question you may want to ask, can I retire now at age 50?

Again I appreciate any help and please feel free to make some comment since some of you have no problems being brutally honest…lol After all, I did ask for it.


Thanks

 

[FinanceDude]

I would do this:

Make a list of the things that are IMPORTANT to you.

Rank them in order, most important first.

Keep that list with you everyday.

Bottom line, is money or your health important to you? Is money more important than your marriage, or not? These are tough questions you need to answer yourself.

Most people find that the simple things in life are MORE important than a standard of living supported by income gained my working in a stressful job backed by unhealthy choices.

I think you CAN retire, but the income you are making now would be far greater than the 4% withdrawal......... Many people on here get by on less after they retire, but not sure if that's your mantra.

I think most people who ER'd found that the "stress: of living on their investments was FAR LESS than the STRESS of working like a dog to make money.............

The day I can't stand coming to work is the day I pull the plug.................

 

[brewer12345]

My question always remained, based on the information already given and any other question you may want to ask, can I retire now at age 50?

OK, you want a straight answer, I will give you one (or at least my opinion).

You beat around the bush a bit, but I will make the assumtion that you have a $950k CAD portfolio out of which you need to generate $30k CAD to retire. Yo are in Canada, so I will assume that you have healthcare taken care of (a major issue to US retirees) and you will eventually have some sort of gov't pension coming (analagous to SS in the US). So given all these assumptions, I'd say yes, you can afford to retire now. But I will give you three caveats:

1. Make darned sure your spouse is on board before you declare yourself fully retired. I can imagine a scenario where you do a little work in the future, maybe doing some high end residential installations, but make the assumption that you are bailing out completely and that your spouse is OK with that.
2. Make sure you know that expense number is solid. If you are off by a lot, it will be a problem.
3. An all GIC portfolio won't cut it. You don't have to do anything drastic in the next 6 months, but within a year you should expect to spend some time educating yourself on investing and make a big change in your portfolio. People here on the forun can give you suggestions on how to learn what you need to know, and you can get lots of criticism advice on re-making your portfolio after you have done the reading.

 

[My Dream]

FinanceDude


Bottom line, is money or your health important to you? Is money more important than your marriage, or not?

I never really put much thought into it, but I would have to say that marriage and health come first, then money. Heck, if I have my family and health, I can pump gas for a living.

I think you CAN retire, but the income you are making now would be far greater than the 4% withdrawal......... Many people on here get by on less after they retire, but not sure if that's your mantra.

We're eliminated a lot of expenses and found that we can break even on around $45,000 per year, and that's not including taking vacations. Keep in mind that we still have 2 kids that we are raising. I'm sure I could reduce by eliminating internet and cable and I'm sure a few other things but that would only save us a few more thousand a year more.

The day I can't stand coming to work is the day I pull the plug.................

That day came to me several years ago.


brewer12345

OK, you want a straight answer, I will give you one (or at least my opinion).

Please do!

I will make the assumption that you have a $950k CAD portfolio

Then no more beating around the bush........Yes I do.! that includes RRSP's not including all items we own e.g. home car's etc. which are paid for.

Make darned sure your spouse is on board before you declare yourself fully retired.

We've been married over 21 years, so I believe her when she says she is.

I will assume that you have healthcare taken care of (a major issue to US retirees) and you will eventually have some sort of gov't pension coming

Basic health care is, but I allowed a for a little more coverage in my retirement budget. Gov't pension is very minimal so I have to rely on our portfolio.

I can imagine a scenario where you do a little work in the future, maybe doing some high end residential installations, but make the assumption that you are bailing out completely and that your spouse is OK with that.

I want to make the assumption that I'm bailing out and she knows that also. I also know the she believes that I wouldn't let my family starve and would go out and get a job to feed them if our portfolio fell apart.

Make sure you know that expense number is solid. If you are off by a lot, it will be a problem.

We need $45,000 per year, to break even, she works part time making $15,000 so our portfolio needs to bring in $30,000. Then when the kids move out, we could probably live on maybe $35,000. Cad.

You don't have to do anything drastic in the next 6 months, but within a year you should expect to spend some time educating yourself on investing and make a big change in your portfolio.

I've have many a sleepless night thinking about retiring that I've already made changes, such as lived even more below my means, am in the process of moving most of my money out of Investors Group, (which is not very pleasant) changing part of the portfolio around.

People here on the forum can give you suggestions on how to learn what you need to know, and you can get lots of criticism advice on re-making your portfolio after you have done the reading.

Thank you so very much, and am looking forward to it.

 

[Brat]

...Keep in mind that we still have 2 kids that we are raising. I'm sure I could reduce by eliminating internet and cable and I'm sure a few other things but that would only save us a few more thousand a year more. ...

Oh the kids will kick up a storm!!! The reality is that most of us didn't have those services when we were kids and spent more time in the library as a result. When you are retired you will have an opportunity to plug into their lives and take up some of that TV and internet time. You don't need to completely disconnect from internet.. there is a lot of cheap dial-up available today. This would be a good example of saving to be able to do things later, whether it is saving to buy their first car or college.

However, YOU may miss cable service.

Depending on the age of the children, after you and your wife have worked out a plan together, you could have a family meeting to discuss the change in your lives and the budget. I wouldn't tell them how much you have saved, but you could tell them that you have saved and will be using some of those savings.

 

[Coach]

My question always remained, based on the information already given and any other question you may want to ask, can I retire now at age 50?

My Dream, the answer is yes. Will you be able to retire, live the lifestyle you want, and fund college educations and weddings? If you're looking for an absolute yes or no, I don't think you'll get that from anyone here.

But with every year that goes by you'll have a better idea. So, keep working now in case the answer is no? Or retire now, and maybe have to go back to work in one, two, five, 10 years?

Retire now.

Coach

 

[My Dream]

Coach

keep working now in case the answer is no? Or retire now, and maybe have to go back to work in one, two, five, 10 years?

I've pretty well already stopped working, if I do eventually go back into the workforce, I will only make approximatly 30% of what I made before. It's complicated but that's what the figure would be. If I wanted to make more then I would have to give up to much, it wouldn't be worth it.

 

[Corporateburnout]

Dream,

I am new to this board. I can tell you that I have decided this past weekend to quit my middle management position that pays me about 150k/year because I have been miserable the last few months. Working extremely long hours with no end in sight. I am fed up with corporate america and want a change. I came to the conclusion that my health, my family and my sanity are much more important that money. I know that I can't afford to retire unless if I move to a cheaper area of the country where I can realize the profit from selling my house and buying a cheaper one there but my wife is not ready yet. I plan to take a few months off since my DW increased her work hours to qualify for health benefits then look for less stressfull work knowing well that I will take a substantial pay cut.

My advice to you is to get out and don't look back. If your health and your family is more important to you then it should be an easy decision............

 

[My Dream]

Dream,

I am new to this board. I can tell you that I have decided this past weekend to quit my middle management position that pays me about 150k/year because I have been miserable the last few months. Working extremely long hours with no end in sight. I am fed up with corporate america and want a change. I came to the conclusion that my health, my family and my sanity are much more important that money. I know that I can't afford to retire unless if I move to a cheaper area of the country where I can realize the profit from selling my house and buying a cheaper one there but my wife is not ready yet. I plan to take a few months off since my DW increased her work hours to qualify for health benefits then look for less stressfull work knowing well that I will take a substantial pay cut.

My advice to you is to get out and don't look back. If your health and your family is more important to you then it should be an easy decision............

I'm glad to hear that you're making a choice that you believe will make you happier in the long run. As with others my health and family are more important, but I still have an obligation to pay the bills and look after my family. I hope that I can retire and do both at the same time.
I'm finding that in order to make my dream come true, I'll have to make the most of what money we've been able to save up. I've got to make it last a lifetime.

Good luck to you and you're family.

 

[My Dream]

Well, I asked my wife if we could spend some time and have a serious talk about me retiring and she thought it was a good idea. After about 3 hours of very serious emotional conversation, she told me that I've been very unhappy for many years, and we've been able to save what most people save in a lifetime. That was the reason she decided to work (only part time was available) part time, and she would be willing even to work full time if cash flow becomes a problem, but ultimately, she thinks that I should stop working and take all the time off I feel I need." I used the word “retire" and her exact response were, “if you can generate enough investment income off of our principal amount to live comfortably so that we don't have to touch our principal. Then take all the time off that you want." She also said that I should keep an open mind that the market may not do as well as I'd hoped and that I may have to find a part time job if necessary." She told me that by me not being happy all these years, it's also affected the way she feels. She says that I deserve to be happy and that she only worries that I'll get bored........My answer to the boredom statement was.......there is not hope in hell I will ever get bored. There are so many things that I have neglected over the last 20 years that could occupy my time for at least the next 4 years without even making a list.

People, friend’s acquaintances.......I want her to retire with me, I don’t know it that’s possible at this point in time. Either way, please give me you're thoughts. Have I read too much into that conversation?

 

[brewer12345]

No, I think your wife was straight with you and you now have her blessing. This is a very good thing.

So run with it. She told you she is on board in no uncertain terms, and that she is willing to work to make it happen. Be happy: you have avery supportive spouse.

One word of advice, which you will likely learn in time: don't get hung up on not invading principal. Once you diversify away from GICs, you will be investing in "total return" (i.e. capital gains as well as investment income) vehicles, and the line between principal and income will get increasingly fuzzy.

 

[My Dream]

brewer12345

No, I think your wife was straight with you and you now have her blessing

I hope she still feels that way in years to come, but I think that will depend on how I handle things while at home also.

don't get hung up on not invading principal. Once you diversify away from GICs, you will be investing in "total return" (i.e. capital gains as well as investment income) vehicles, and the line between principal and income will get increasingly fuzzy.

The way my mindset works is....... that if I start reducing the principal amount then, my investment strategy isn't working, therfore I need to change my strategy. I'm not good at investing, only saving, but as long as I don't touch principal, and still live a comfortable life, then I can stay retired.

Thanks for your comment brewer12345

 

[FinanceDude]

Well, I asked my wife if we could spend some time and have a serious talk about me retiring and she thought it was a good idea. After about 3 hours of very serious emotional conversation, she told me that I've been very unhappy for many years, and we've been able to save what most people save in a lifetime. That was the reason she decided to work (only part time was available) part time, and she would be willing even to work full time if cash flow becomes a problem, but ultimately, she thinks that I should stop working and take all the time off I feel I need." I used the word “retire" and her exact response were, “if you can generate enough investment income off of our principal amount to live comfortably so that we don't have to touch our principal. Then take all the time off that you want." She also said that I should keep an open mind that the market may not do as well as I'd hoped and that I may have to find a part time job if necessary." She told me that by me not being happy all these years, it's also affected the way she feels. She says that I deserve to be happy and that she only worries that I'll get bored........My answer to the boredom statement was.......there is not hope in hell I will ever get bored. There are so many things that I have neglected over the last 20 years that could occupy my time for at least the next 4 years without even making a list.

People, friend’s acquaintances.......I want her to retire with me, I don’t know it that’s possible at this point in time. Either way, please give me you're thoughts. Have I read too much into that conversation?

She obviously loves you very much....... What she is telling you is speaking directly to her "security" issue. Women in general want more security than men. They want less risk in their lives. So, give her that. When the bills are being paid on time and the checks are coming in every month, she will relax, and so will you.

Sounds like a GREAT time to teach your kids about MONEY and living on a BUDGET.........

 

[My Dream]

FinanceDude

When the bills are being paid on time and the checks are coming in every month, she will relax, and so will you.

Well then I guess my new job is to be a Househusband. First things first,I'm going to try to educate myself on trying to get the most out of our portfolio. Hopefully members here can help.

Sounds like a GREAT time to teach your kids about MONEY and living on a BUDGET.........

Funny you should say that, we started teaching our 2 kids about saving and budgeting since the age of around 9. My oldest son is 16 and has a job, and has been able to get some toys sort of speak and still save up around $7,000 so far. He says it's for a car.........ya.........ok! I say it's for education..................his answer is ....No ........No..or as the new saying goes........Deuce........Ahhhhhh to be young again.....

 

[spark0506]

My Dream,

I can really relate to your feelings and how pressurized it can get. I’m a small business owner and a crappy manager so I’ve had to put in a ton of hours over the past 21 + years to make a success of it. I’ve been struggling with many of the same things you have mentioned and there are times when it can get very depressing and it can seem like there’s no way out of the vicious work cycle. For me some of it has been a fear of getting out to early and maybe leaving too much on the table. I’ve always worried about having “enough money” but now I’m starting to think a lot more about having a good life. Don’t beat yourself up to much, I think you’re just knee deep in the middle of the process of making some serious life changes and these decisions can be gut wrenching. This board is a great way to get some excellent feedback, good variety of views, and solid advice. Sounds to me like you’re moving in the right direction.

 

[My Dream]

I think I've come to a point in my life where as I either jump back into the job 100% again and give up my personal life as well as my marriage and kids. And when I do have time to rest, I come to the realization that I'm unhappy and depressed. I'm stepping back now and saying to myself. I want my life back. I want to spend time with my family, and except the fact that I won't be rich. Rather richness will come from the friends and family I have come to realize.

Such is life.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I think I've come to a point in my life where as I either jump back into the job 100% again and give up my personal life as well as my marriage and kids. And when I do have time to rest, I come to the realization that I'm unhappy and depressed. I'm stepping back now and saying to myself. I want my life back. I want to spend time with my family, and except the fact that I won't be rich. Rather richness will come from the friends and family I have come to realize.

Such is life.

That's the whole "Your Money or Your Life" philosophy after a book by Joe Domeguez. Basically it states that things will not make you happy. The pursuit of lots of things however, just may ruin you. Getting caught up in the ratrace just to buy stuff that you really don't need, that won't make you happy is just not smart.

 

[albundyz]

My Dream:

I'm just a lurker. I have no professional experience, so take my advice with a grain of salt. I respond because I have some things in common with you.

1. I have spent the last 30 years working my butt off with only one goal, to provide for my family. I'm retiring soon, and I worry, like you that I may not have enough. But heres the thing. After 30 years, I'm not sure I really know how I'm gonna feel about being retired until it happens. It will be a whole new lifestyle experience. I don't believe anyone can tell you what it's gonna be like because everyone responds differently. One thing for sure, however, I'll bet that I (and you, too) will be a completely different person in 2-3 years. I say that because what I say and feel now (in anticipation of retirement) is not going to be the same after 2-3 years (maybe even less than 2-3 years). What's my point? I can't project any gloom and doom for myself 20 years down the road, because things will change.
I won't be the same person. How do I know that maybe in 2-3 years I might WANT to work a little and produce some income? Do I really think that I'll never produce any more income again? I don't know. It's a big 'maybe'. You can't predict how you're gonna feel with such a significant lifestyle change.
2. Time is on my side (and yours, too). I don't buy this magic formula of having to have a fixed income every year, and add some for inflation. Some years I'll need more, some less. Sometimes I'll take an expensive vacation, some a cheap vacation.
Expenses will vary. YOU will have a significant decrease in expenses when your kids grow up and start to provide for themselves. I guess my point is that 'needed annual income' is not predictable. It's always gonna change, so be a little flexible.
3. This kinda goes with #2, but the experts will tell you that you should not burn more than 4% of your savings per year. But what would be the harm in taking some extra the first year or two? You're suffering from burn out. You need to get healthy, so if you took 6% instead of 4% for a year or two, I wouldn't worry about it. If after 2 years of retirement, you could re-evaluate your financial situation and make changes if you like, but right now, it's important that you chill out for a while, get healthy, I don't know if it will take 1-2-3 years, but I guarantee that after a period of time, you'll be a different person and you'll look at your situation differently and look at the world and your future in a much more positive light.
4. appreciate your family, it sounds like you are very fortunate, not everyone has a wife as nice as yours. I also appreciate the fact that I (and you, too) have options. some people are in our situation and have no options. Celebrate your successes, don't dwell on possible problems 20 years down the road. You're still a young guy, you've got too much of your life ahead of you.

In general, my advice is....take two years off and get healthy, see how your outlook on life changes. reevaluate your financial situation at that time.

good luck