DQOTD: Soc Sec Spousal Benefits?

[Midpack]

Sorry to ask but many sites I look at make it seem confusing. We were both born after Jan 1954. My understanding for our situation:

• DW is not eligible for a spousal benefit until I file at age 70, she’ll be 68.
• At that time she’ll be eligible for half my FRA benefit (not half my age 70 amount) - without impacting her own earned benefit.
• When she turns 70, she’s eligible for her own (35+ years) earned benefit OR continuing with half my FRA amount - whichever is greater.

Anything I’m missing?

 

[Midpack]

Surprised, no one knows?

 

[atmsmshr]

You are correct Midpack.

That breakdown is what factors into my estimation that I will claim at 67. DW is also 67, but collects SSDI until FRA. For our situation, delaying until 70 to collect does not necessarily make the best option, but rather claim at FRA.

Things could change - options remain open.

 

[Dd852]

My understanding is the same as yours. Nothing happens until one of the two claims. At that point the spouse can get half of the other’s FRA if the spouse is at retirement age (otherwise it is reduced until that person hits his/her full retirement date). The spousal amount (50% of other spouse’s FRA) does not change even if the other spouse delays.

 

[MissMolly]

I don't think that is entirely correct. Since she was born after Jan 1, 1954 she no longer gets to choose whether to file for spousal or her own. Once she files, she will be "deemed" to be filing for the maximum amount she is eligible for.

 

[Philliefan33]

I thought that if one was born after 1954, once you start collecting SS you get either your benefit or the spousal benefit (whichever is greater).

That would suggest that Midpack's third bullet point is incorrect. It the spouse starts getting SS at age 68, she "deemed" to be starting her benefit if it is larger at that time than the spousal benefit.

I think what could be done is Midpack's DW start her own benefit anytime she is eligible before Midpack starts taking his. Once he starts his, she could then get spousal if it is larger than her benefit. (But it may be reduced if she started her benefits before FRA??)

 

[finnski1]

The only point I am not sure about is that if she decides to take the spousal (50% of your PIA)benefit at 68 if she would be locking herself in at half your FRA (because she filed for benefits and "deemed " to have filed as Molly mentioned above))and thus possibly losing out on her own higher benefit at 70.
This of course would be critical to know.
Obviously you want to her to get half of yours for 2 years before filing for her own at age 70 and I am very interested in this as we will be in a similar scenario because my wife is 3 1/2 years older than me.

 

[fosterscik]

I agree with MissMolly and Philliefan. That reasoning went into my/our decision for DW to claim at 62 while I delay to 70. DW gets a small benefit on her record until I claim. She will be entitled to half my FRA benefit (NOT my age 70 benefit), but it will be reduced further by the early claiming penalty.
I think this can be confirmed using Mike Piper's https://opensocialsecurity.com/ calculator. If you plug in your numbers/age-claiming strategy I think you'll see that your DW's benefit will not increase as much as you predict when you claim at 70.

 

[Bugeater]

Have you run various scenarios through https://opensocialsecurity.com/ ?

enter your data to get optimal - then scroll all the way to bottom of page and you can customize dates to see the impact to alternative claiming dates. Should be able to answer your questions quantitatively that way.

 

[target2019]

I noticed that the file and suspend strategy is no longer listed when I use opensocialsecurity. Gotta be careful with the changes mentioned in other posts.
https://www.aarp.org/retirement/social-security/questions-answers/ss-couples-file-and-suspend/

This has been one of the more elusive concepts to fully understand. Either someone comes up with a slightly different phrasing of the question, or I forget what I previously found.

 

[finnski1]

I noticed that the file and suspend strategy is no longer listed when I use opensocialsecurity. Gotta be careful with the changes mentioned in other posts.
https://www.aarp.org/retirement/social-security/questions-answers/ss-couples-file-and-suspend/

This has been one of the more elusive concepts to fully understand. Either someone comes up with a slightly different phrasing of the question, or I forget what I previously found.

I believe "file and suspend" is no longer available and was considered a "loophole" by the powers that be. If you were born before jan1 1954 then it was possible a few years ago. Not now.

 

[target2019]

I believe "file and suspend" is no longer available and was considered a "loophole" by the powers that be. If you were born before jan1 1954 then it was possible a few years ago. Not now.

Yes, I posted the link to more fully explain file and suspend.

 

[finnski1]

Yes, I posted the link to more fully explain file and suspend.

Ok. I didn't follow the link. Thanks

 

[Midpack]

Have you run various scenarios through https://opensocialsecurity.com/ ?

enter your data to get optimal - then scroll all the way to bottom of page and you can customize dates to see the impact to alternative claiming dates. Should be able to answer your questions quantitatively that way.

That is a great resource, and I have used it with non-smoker super preferred longevity (see below). But I didn't see any explanation as to why, or a reference to using the spousal benefit as related to her earned benefit. Maybe I am missing that. I was assuming the max benefit would be both of us at 70 since extreme longevity runs in our families, OpenSocSec suggests slightly otherwise.

After reading the responses above (thank you all) - I gather DW gets one shot, half my FRA or her earned benefit - the latter will be the greater so that's what we will do.

The strategy that maximizes the total dollars you can be expected to receive over your lifetimes is as follows:

• You file for your retirement benefit to begin 5/2024, at age 70 and 0 months.
• Your spouse files for his/her retirement benefit to begin 8/2024, at age 67 and 11 months.

 

[Crabby Mike]

"File and restrict" was the one valid only for DOB before 1/1/54, where you could collect spousal while letting your own benefit grow. "File and suspend" went away earlier; it allowed one to file, then suspend, their own benefit, while their spouse collected spousal 1/2.

 

[ivinsfan]

That is a great resource, and I have used it with non-smoker super preferred longevity (see below). But I didn't see any explanation as to why, or a reference to using the spousal benefit as related to her earned benefit. Maybe I am missing that. I was assuming the max benefit would be both of us at 70 since extreme longevity runs in our families, OpenSocSec suggests slightly otherwise.

After reading the responses above (thank you all) - I gather DW gets one shot, half my FRA or her earned benefit - the latter will be the greater so that's what we will do.

So will your DW still wait until you turn 70 or haven't you decided? What is her exact FRA age...I'm not sure why OSS is telling her to wait.The total dollars is one thing there is also the benefit of getting two checks for a longer period. Just in case you both don't live until 99. The hit by a bus type thing.

 

[Midpack]

So will your DW still wait until you turn 70 or haven't you decided? What is her exact FRA age...I'm not sure why OSS is telling her to wait.The total dollars is one thing there is also the benefit of getting two checks for a longer period. Just in case you both don't live until 99. The hit by a bus type thing.

Haven't decided, but she's 64, so no rush. And I don't plan by exceptions like 'hit by a bus' - possible but not the most probable circumstances.

 

[ivinsfan]

Haven't decided, but she's 64, so no rush. And I don't plan by exceptions like 'hit by a bus' - possible but not the most probable circumstances.

I didn't say plan for it, I was just wondering what, if any, weight it would have in your thinking.

A close in law family member just got a 6 month max to live with his apparently untreatable cancer. 65 he and his spouse both worked for similar pay so would have roughly equal SS payments...the loss of one SS check is really going to hurt his wife.

I'm guessing in your case, your choice of payments options isn't really going to impact your finances one way or another. This stuff has just been on my mind this week. Kind of a worse case scenario for SS as far as this couple is concerned.

 

[Midpack]

I didn't say plan for it, I was just wondering what, if any, weight it would have in your thinking.

Zero weight, so no planning whatsover WRT Soc Sec.

 

[ivinsfan]

Zero weight, so no planning whatsover WRT Soc Sec.

This board is probably full of outliers where SS isn't a major or the major source of retirement income. For some couples it would be the major income in retirement. This board is full of people/couples who have options, which really equate to peace of mind.

 

[Midpack]

This board is probably full of outliers where SS isn't a major or the major source of retirement income. For some couples it would be the major income in retirement. This board is full of people/couples who have options, which really equate to peace of mind.

Not sure why we’re belaboring this. I’m trying to maximize our benefit, which doesn’t have anything to do with how significant an income stream it will be for us. Nor does getting hit by a bus, which no one can plan on.

 

[ivinsfan]

Not sure why we’re belaboring this. I’m trying to maximize our benefit, which doesn’t have anything to do with how significant an income stream it will be for us. Nor does getting hit by a bus, which no one can plan on.

Gosh just commenting not belaboring..you forgot to add get off my lawn. Commenting that some here have more options isn't just about you. I guess you didn't see my comment about a couple I know and love being in a possible SS stream income situation/problem. The bus can have a lot of different meanings.

I guess I just shouldn't have quoted your post, yet I thought it was part of some ongoing comments about income. Next time I'll be sure to leave you out of it.

 

[Midpack]

Gosh just commenting not belaboring..you forgot to add get off my lawn. Commenting that some here have more options isn't just about you. I guess you didn't see my comment about a couple I know and love being in a possible SS stream income situation/problem. The bus can have a lot of different meanings.

I guess I just shouldn't have quoted your post, yet I thought it was part of some ongoing comments about income. Next time I'll be sure to leave you out of it.

Sorry if I’ve upset you, not intended. You’ve quoted me several times, adding assumptions that don’t fit our situation at all, and I was simply sharing our circumstances. We have different POVs on this topic, that’s allowed.

 

[ivinsfan]

Sorry if I’ve upset you, not intended. You’ve quoted me several times, adding assumptions that don’t fit our situation at all, and I was simply sharing our circumstances. We have different POVs on this topic, that’s allowed.

I didn't think I was assuming anything about you, I thought I was just asking generally about the spousal topic. I think sometimes it's the quote button that's the problem. Oh well there are enough problems in the world without getting bent about some crossed wires.

I don't think either one of us disagree with my final comment where I said options bring peace of mind. The thing about options is we can pick and choose which one suits us the best. I was not trying to convince you that one option was better then another.

I guess the important thing is that you learned something new from starting the thread, I guess at the end of the day that why we all post here.

 

[camfused]

I just want to make sure I have this right. DW is 1 year and 3 months older than me. We will both take SS at 70. When she takes hers, I will also able to get the spousal benefit of 50% of her FRA (66 years and 8 months) amount, for 1 year and 3 months, then I will start getting my full benefit when I hit 70. Do I have this right?