haha
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Do you mean this ER board? To me we have the absolute most down to earth females I have ever heard of right here on this board- unless they are all lying which I doubt.
Ha
Dreading the culture
- Thread starter Pavo
- Start date
Do you mean this ER board? To me we have the absolute most down to earth females I have ever heard of right here on this board- unless they are all lying which I doubt.
Ha
haha
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Me too! Before I turned 65 I only liked those nice big rounded booties, but now I also like the skinny Asian look. Though I think big and rounded is still ahead by a nose.
Ha
brewer12345
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2003
- Messages
- 18,085
Does that include the 16Yo chick in Missoula known as Uncle Mick?
tangomonster
Full time employment: Posting here.
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2006
- Messages
- 757
Pavo, you're my new hero! By sharing your philosophy and spending habits, DH and I were able to retire at 52 with no pensions and after never making more than a below average salary. Stick to your guns! Maybe socialize just a little, but don't make it a regular habit. So what if you get known as the office eccentric!
bssc
Moderator Emeritus
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2005
- Messages
- 10,125
Our NYC HQ office is like that, which is why I never want to work there. Thanks for reminding me
Our local office is nice, low key and I have a boss who wants to retire early too.
Our local office is nice, low key and I have a boss who wants to retire early too.
Hi -
You guys are a riot on here
Do you hold some sort of annual ER Forums board convention where I can stop by for some BBQ and beer as we trade stories?
brewer12345 - Transience...good point. Besides FIRE, there is another light at the end of the tunnel, and that is my next step in life, whatever that may be. The few good friends that I have from work I will keep in contact with. I guess it's similar to high school and college. I had many friends from both, but when submitting my high school reunion info. prior to graduation, my Dean of Students refused to accept it. She told me, "Pavo, you don't want to know what happens to people after high school." Naive and baffled, I asked why, to which she replied "you will keep contact with the people who mean something to you, and the rest..."
I'm still young so I have a lot more to learn than someone who is older than me.
I think it is much simpler with smaller shops. I used to travel quite a bit to Nebraska and Michigan to visit certain shops. Besides a couple of shops in suburban Detroit, they were very low key, and the people were very easy to work with. They didn't care what kind of suit I was wearing as long as I looked professional. I think with the larger shops it matters - people size you up, and sadly, how successful or important you are is determined by how well you dress, carry yourself, etc. How well you mingle with the higher ups can determine placement and promotions, etc. I think this happens everywhere, but when the stakes are a little higher, it just stinks to play this game.
tangomonster - Thanks for the kind words, and congrats to you and DH (I don't know what 'DH' stands for...designated husband?) I think it's too late to call me an eccentric, but I will stick with my guns. As brewer mentioned, transience...
haha - May you find the love of your life in your young age of 65, and I hope you guys live happily ever after, be she a skinny asian or big and rounded. Perhaps you'll find both in the same person...
P.S. I highly doubt that this forum has any high maintenance women. I'm not taking about emotions, or wanting to spend time together, or anything along those lines. I'm referring to women who are beyond girly girls: 1-2 hours for make-up before going out (and not just out on the town - sometimes just to the grocery store), designer labels or bust, nice ride, nice this, nice that, etc. They are the antithesis of down to earth.
You guys are a riot on here
Do you hold some sort of annual ER Forums board convention where I can stop by for some BBQ and beer as we trade stories?
brewer12345 - Transience...good point. Besides FIRE, there is another light at the end of the tunnel, and that is my next step in life, whatever that may be. The few good friends that I have from work I will keep in contact with. I guess it's similar to high school and college. I had many friends from both, but when submitting my high school reunion info. prior to graduation, my Dean of Students refused to accept it. She told me, "Pavo, you don't want to know what happens to people after high school." Naive and baffled, I asked why, to which she replied "you will keep contact with the people who mean something to you, and the rest..."
I'm still young so I have a lot more to learn than someone who is older than me.
I think it is much simpler with smaller shops. I used to travel quite a bit to Nebraska and Michigan to visit certain shops. Besides a couple of shops in suburban Detroit, they were very low key, and the people were very easy to work with. They didn't care what kind of suit I was wearing as long as I looked professional. I think with the larger shops it matters - people size you up, and sadly, how successful or important you are is determined by how well you dress, carry yourself, etc. How well you mingle with the higher ups can determine placement and promotions, etc. I think this happens everywhere, but when the stakes are a little higher, it just stinks to play this game.
tangomonster - Thanks for the kind words, and congrats to you and DH (I don't know what 'DH' stands for...designated husband?) I think it's too late to call me an eccentric, but I will stick with my guns. As brewer mentioned, transience...
haha - May you find the love of your life in your young age of 65, and I hope you guys live happily ever after, be she a skinny asian or big and rounded. Perhaps you'll find both in the same person...
P.S. I highly doubt that this forum has any high maintenance women. I'm not taking about emotions, or wanting to spend time together, or anything along those lines. I'm referring to women who are beyond girly girls: 1-2 hours for make-up before going out (and not just out on the town - sometimes just to the grocery store), designer labels or bust, nice ride, nice this, nice that, etc. They are the antithesis of down to earth.
brewer12345
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2003
- Messages
- 18,085
I've seen people in the industry look at each other's watches to size the other person up. Its like dogs sniffing each other's butts. Luckil, we have our front man in the form of the head partner, and the rest of us are bus casual. Until they instituted a dress code this year, I routinely showed up in jeans, a three day beard, t shirt and sneakers unless we had someone coming in.
Spanky
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
The business attire at our workplace is very causal. However, the dress code is very formal in our world headquarters which is only 5 miles away. Our department is planning to move into the world headquarters within two years. I am not looking forward for such a move.
brewer12345 - I know exactly what you mean. People size up everything - your entire outfit, consisting of shoes, slacks, shirts, ties, suits, watches, haircut, etc. I had my old manager, who is a male, give me the eye scan a number of times when I walked in, going from head to toe and then back to head. I felt like he was checking me out, but he was just making sure (
) that I looked okay.Some people are lax with it all, but many of them are too concerned with stuff which doesn't matter in my opinion. In a way, it is a relief when I leave work on some days as I get to mix in with the rest of society and feel at ease - I can care less if someone on the street cares about my clothes or my watch, but it's tougher to not care when there are people at work doing this.
Spanky - Interesting. My office is a remote, but our headquarters are more lax than most of our remote offices. The regional managers/lead VPs tend to run them as if they are their own company. Our numbers are always great, so HQ leaves us alone. When they run them as their own company, well, sometimes they have unwritten rules in place or instill their own culture. A number of people have gone to HR to complain in the past about this. I think in most cases that HQ is tougher than a remote, but ours is different due to the aforementioned items. Best of luck to you when the move takes place.
kjpliny - Hmmm, you are correct that I must be off (I shot out an estimated number in my original post). I don't have my spreadsheet file (my baby) with me at the moment, but I will post later on to clarify.
CuppaJoe
Moderator Emeritus
Pavo, I can relate to your comments on attending baseball games with the gang from work; I remember commenting to a counter-culture-type-co-worker that it was the fifth inning and I hadn't seen a complete play yet-- he clued me in that that is the way it's supposed to be. Many people I’ve worked with over the years complain about this stuff; once after a ferry boat ride with the work group, my office mate said, I’d really like to do that with friends rather than co-workers. Some people have one club soda with co-workers before heading off to volunteer activities like maybe taking your "little brother" from the big brother/little brother program to a ball game.
Pavo,
I know I'm late this thread, but felt compelled to post anyhow. I've spent over 20 years in precisely the same type of "high finance" work culture you described. And like yourself, I have not entirely subscribed to the over-the-top drinking, golfing, socializing, conspicuous consumption that seems to go hand-in-hand with the career. Of course, my wife, who is a genuine, died in the wool LBYMer would probably disagree with the part about me not engaging in over the top behavior. But, I often have had to explain to her that what she sees me doing is the tip of the iceberg compared to my peers.
At any rate, coming from a poverty background in many ways made me something of a cultural outsider. I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth, didn't have parents who could pay for college and then buy me an apt in Manhattan for a graduation gift. I didn't grow up learning to play golf and tennis at country clubs and skiing at my parents Aspen condo. Anyhow, I know you get the picture. For the uninitiated, many of the people who get into these high-flying jobs come from extraordinarily priviledged backgrounds already. Gucci, Prada, Bergdorf's, etc., they grew up on that stuff the way I grew up on grits and catfish for dinner. Sure, I got exposed to it as the 1st person in my family to ever go to an Ivy League college. But, when it came down to the work social thing, the differences seemed even more pronounced.
At any rate, I dealt with it through a combo of being my own person on the inside, while putting some effort into assimilating. I adopted a strategy of image management. This is not to say that I would suggest any fundamental personal changes, nor would I suggest trying to be somebody you're not. But, I am saying that you have to acknowledge that the workplace is a political jungle and that no man is an island. Networking among your peers is going to be a key success factor. You don't have to pretend to be like them in order to do some socializing outside the workplace. Just be careful about how you pick the time and place to interact. Also, play down the things that you know they just won't understand and play up the things they can grasp. Don't lie, just only reveal those things that put you in the best light. Also don't participate in things that highlight the differences. For example, I avoid golf like the plague, but I'm more than happy to take money off my "friends" in a game of billiards.
People, especially cliqish people, need to feel like they understand you, otherwise they fear and loath you. You don't want to be the office "geek". You need to connect with them enough for them to at least see you as a neutral (like Switzerland) in their social heirarchy. And I'm guessing the quality of your work makes you a favorate of the higher ups, which means your peers will eventually come to respect you as at least someone they shouldn't offend and might actually want to include in their playtime.
All of this is going to sound absolutely disgusting to a lot of "what you see is what you get types" - people who have vowed to never play the game regardless of the cost. But, let's face reality here: Unless you are an indispenible genius at what you do, mega-corp, high finance career success is going to be a lot about how you play the game. Without acknowledging this, you will not achieve your financial potential. That said, in the long run, your willingness to go against the herd, will probably serve you well down the road, so long as you can manage the social/networking aspects of your career to at least minimize the adverse issues.
One last thing. As to your objectives to FIRE. I'm sure you'll reach them. But, don't ever let on that this is your real objective. Sure, people constantly talk about the "number". But, that's just water cooler blather. On the Street, if you're not committed for life, you're nobody.
I know I'm late this thread, but felt compelled to post anyhow. I've spent over 20 years in precisely the same type of "high finance" work culture you described. And like yourself, I have not entirely subscribed to the over-the-top drinking, golfing, socializing, conspicuous consumption that seems to go hand-in-hand with the career. Of course, my wife, who is a genuine, died in the wool LBYMer would probably disagree with the part about me not engaging in over the top behavior. But, I often have had to explain to her that what she sees me doing is the tip of the iceberg compared to my peers.
At any rate, coming from a poverty background in many ways made me something of a cultural outsider. I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth, didn't have parents who could pay for college and then buy me an apt in Manhattan for a graduation gift. I didn't grow up learning to play golf and tennis at country clubs and skiing at my parents Aspen condo. Anyhow, I know you get the picture. For the uninitiated, many of the people who get into these high-flying jobs come from extraordinarily priviledged backgrounds already. Gucci, Prada, Bergdorf's, etc., they grew up on that stuff the way I grew up on grits and catfish for dinner. Sure, I got exposed to it as the 1st person in my family to ever go to an Ivy League college. But, when it came down to the work social thing, the differences seemed even more pronounced.
At any rate, I dealt with it through a combo of being my own person on the inside, while putting some effort into assimilating. I adopted a strategy of image management. This is not to say that I would suggest any fundamental personal changes, nor would I suggest trying to be somebody you're not. But, I am saying that you have to acknowledge that the workplace is a political jungle and that no man is an island. Networking among your peers is going to be a key success factor. You don't have to pretend to be like them in order to do some socializing outside the workplace. Just be careful about how you pick the time and place to interact. Also, play down the things that you know they just won't understand and play up the things they can grasp. Don't lie, just only reveal those things that put you in the best light. Also don't participate in things that highlight the differences. For example, I avoid golf like the plague, but I'm more than happy to take money off my "friends" in a game of billiards.
People, especially cliqish people, need to feel like they understand you, otherwise they fear and loath you. You don't want to be the office "geek". You need to connect with them enough for them to at least see you as a neutral (like Switzerland) in their social heirarchy. And I'm guessing the quality of your work makes you a favorate of the higher ups, which means your peers will eventually come to respect you as at least someone they shouldn't offend and might actually want to include in their playtime.
All of this is going to sound absolutely disgusting to a lot of "what you see is what you get types" - people who have vowed to never play the game regardless of the cost. But, let's face reality here: Unless you are an indispenible genius at what you do, mega-corp, high finance career success is going to be a lot about how you play the game. Without acknowledging this, you will not achieve your financial potential. That said, in the long run, your willingness to go against the herd, will probably serve you well down the road, so long as you can manage the social/networking aspects of your career to at least minimize the adverse issues.
One last thing. As to your objectives to FIRE. I'm sure you'll reach them. But, don't ever let on that this is your real objective. Sure, people constantly talk about the "number". But, that's just water cooler blather. On the Street, if you're not committed for life, you're nobody.
As someone who lives in Chicago, in your general age group, and has spent time with many of these people I can understand the frustration. Do you like sailing at all? A great way to spend some time without blowing money but still staying in that general high-flying group is to get out on the water and sail. The season is pretty much ending for this year, but in Chicago it is easy to volunteer as crew to race sailboats. Wed night beer-cans, racing fleets on the weekends, etc. If you don't own a boat, it's a fairly cheap way to spend time in an environment that swims in money but doesn't require you to lay out much if any. The parties are great, but you won't be looked down upon for not drinking much, and depending on which harbor you sail out of, it is a nice short run from downtown. It obviously depends on whether you enjoy it at all, but it may be a good solution to spending time with the sort of people that your business requires you to be around without compromising your future. If people give you crap about being cheap tell them that you are saving because you are considering buying a boat. Everyone on the water will respect that.
kjpliny - A 'fatal' error on my part. I save over 80% of net, not gross. Good catch, and thank you for correcting me. No, I don't have an insane company match, in fact, ours is on the lower end of the 'average' spectrum.
Gekko - Great post. In many ways I am similar to you. I came from a blue collar background, and I was the first in the family to go to college. My parents enriched my life as a child as best they could, but golf, tennis, and french lessons were not a part of it. 'Summering' as a family was about going to an amusement park or camping.
I have some brains, and I have the work ethic
. I'm known as 'the machine' in the office for my work. I'm not a superstar, but I have created some good inputs on models and such. I am appreciated by my boss, as well as others, but, I am dispensible if I don't play the game. Financial services is very...odd. You can easily be let go of simply because someone doesn't like you. They'll find a way to make the termination look appropriate.
Image management is a great way to put it. That's really what much of it is about. I've been getting better at it, but it's tough. I'm great with the older folks, but it's tough among my peer group. And I really like this:
These people breath, drink, eat, play, sleep, and urinate by this motto.
Maybe I'm just in the wrong place of work? I enjoy the responsibilities and the work that I do, I enjoy the pay, but I don't enjoy many of the unwritten rules that come with it. Transience...
seabourne - Thanks for your input. We have a couple of guys who sail here, and one who knows quite a few guys down at the yacht club. They've invited me out a few times, but I have yet to take them up on their offer. I have gotten involved in some ways such as running with some co-workers and cycling, but maybe next summer I'll try out the sailing bit.
Gekko - Great post. In many ways I am similar to you. I came from a blue collar background, and I was the first in the family to go to college. My parents enriched my life as a child as best they could, but golf, tennis, and french lessons were not a part of it. 'Summering' as a family was about going to an amusement park or camping.
I have some brains, and I have the work ethic
. I'm known as 'the machine' in the office for my work. I'm not a superstar, but I have created some good inputs on models and such. I am appreciated by my boss, as well as others, but, I am dispensible if I don't play the game. Financial services is very...odd. You can easily be let go of simply because someone doesn't like you. They'll find a way to make the termination look appropriate.Image management is a great way to put it. That's really what much of it is about. I've been getting better at it, but it's tough. I'm great with the older folks, but it's tough among my peer group. And I really like this:
These people breath, drink, eat, play, sleep, and urinate by this motto.
Maybe I'm just in the wrong place of work? I enjoy the responsibilities and the work that I do, I enjoy the pay, but I don't enjoy many of the unwritten rules that come with it. Transience...
seabourne - Thanks for your input. We have a couple of guys who sail here, and one who knows quite a few guys down at the yacht club. They've invited me out a few times, but I have yet to take them up on their offer. I have gotten involved in some ways such as running with some co-workers and cycling, but maybe next summer I'll try out the sailing bit.
Similar threads
