Dual citizenship

[jerryo]

I have a somewhat similar situation with regard to my eligibility for dual US and Austrian citizenship.

My mother was an Austrian refugee who fled from the Nazi's and moved to the US in 1939 (leaving behind her parents who died in a concentration camp). Before my mom passed away (in 1995) she applied for and received an Austrian old age pension under a law, passed in 1990, making refugees eligible for such pensions. Now, I have just learned that under a new 2020 Austrian law I am eligible for Austrian citizenship (as are my sons and grandkids as other direct descendants). Under this 2020 law Austria will also allow me to retain my American citizenship (normally new Austrian citizens are required to relinquish their previous citizenship).

My mother put together almost all of the documentation I'll need when she applied for her pension (Austrian birth records, police report on her parents, addresses, gymnasium records, naturalization, papers, wedding license, etc.), even a letter vouching for her from an old gymnasium classmate who had become the Austrian consul in Chicago. The only other things I need are my own birth certificate, FBI report, passport, etc.

Having Austrian citizenship would allow me to live and work anywhere in Europe, where my wife and I currently spend about 3 months a year. It would also provide access to a European safe haven, if needed. While my wife wouldn't automatically get citizenship, she too would be able to live in Europe and would be eligible for Austrian citizenship in 5 or 6 years.

I can't see any downside, except for a little time and some document fees. At this point I'm FI and nearly fully retired, and would likely retain US residence, so I don't see any tax advantages or disadvantages either. Does anyone else have any thoughts?

 

[Dd852]

As a practical matter, I enjoy having multiple citizenships and they have certainly given me great flexibility. Taxes come into play only when you live outside the US since the US is one of only a couple of countries with worldwide taxation so filing gets complex.

The only downside for me is a slight psychological one. I still feel I am „American“ - it is the land of my birth and is tied with my identity somehow. So I do feel a slight sense of imposterism and even guilt when I use another passport. When asked my nationality my instinctive response is „American“ even though that’s not the full answer now.

But the advantages far outweigh the slight drawback for me.

 

[RetiredAndLovingIt]

So did I until I checked but Canada and the USA have a different arrangement.

With some countries like the USA and Australia it is a legal requirement to enter the country if you are a citizen of that country.

In 2006 Boris Johnson, then Mayor of London, was traveling on holiday with his family to Mexico when he was denied boarding at Heathrow because the ticketing agent noticed on his passport that he was born in NYC. ( His father was a diplomat and Boris lived there for a short while after being born). Because he didn’t have a US passport and the flight to Mexico City changed planes in Houston he was not allowed to board. His wife and children went without him while he paid “a tonking load of money” to get a different flight that bypassed the USA. He has since given up his US citizenship although it cost him a load of money in back taxes.

https://www.boris-johnson.com/2006/08/29/american-passport/

Alan, just to clarify what you're saying, if I became a dual citizen, then I would carry 2 passports. I would enter the UK with a British passport and return to the US on my US passport.
I could be wrong but I thought my US passport was stamped both ways, 1 out and 1 back in so they knew my entry and exit dates?

 

[MichaelB]

Alan, just to clarify what you're saying, if I became a dual citizen, then I would carry 2 passports. I would enter the UK with a British passport and return to the US on my US passport.
I could be wrong but I thought my US passport was stamped both ways, 1 out and 1 back in so they knew my entry and exit dates?

The US doesn’t always stamp the passport of returning citizens, it seems to be up to the particular agent. I don’t recall a passport stamp when leaving the US. Others may have different experience.

 

[Ian S]

Alan, just to clarify what you're saying, if I became a dual citizen, then I would carry 2 passports. I would enter the UK with a British passport and return to the US on my US passport.
I could be wrong but I thought my US passport was stamped both ways, 1 out and 1 back in so they knew my entry and exit dates?

I was born in Canada, went to the US for graduate studies and then went to work for an American firm after graduating. They assisted me in getting my green card and eventually I became a US citizen. After that, I never renewed my Canadian passport and have always traveled on my US passport even when visiting Canada. I've never been told at the border I should enter Canada with a Canadian passport. It clearly states on my US passport I was born in Canada so they would know I had Canadian citizenship. Entering Canada on a Canadian passport with my place of residence in the US could open up a whole lot of questions I would think. Also getting a Canadian passport while living in the US in this age of covid would be a real pain so I wouldn't do it unless absolutely necessary.

 

[bigreader]

Alan, just to clarify what you're saying, if I became a dual citizen, then I would carry 2 passports. I would enter the UK with a British passport and return to the US on my US passport.
I could be wrong but I thought my US passport was stamped both ways, 1 out and 1 back in so they knew my entry and exit dates?

US/Italy Dual citizen here. When I travel to the EU, I depart from the US on my US passport. Upon arrival in the EU, I use my Italian passport. The process is reversed on the way back. That way the US knows I left and came back and Italy knows I came back and left. Might be important if there is a question of my residency.

br

 

[NW-Bound]

I have both Canadian & US as does my DW. No issues at all. We do not have Canadian passports as it is too short a time and a PIA to apply for unless you are in Canada. We do not need one as I have a UK and US passport. I also have UK and Maltese citizenships, again no issues even with quad citizenships.

Quad citizenships? Do all 4 countries have extradition agreements?

 

[NW-Bound]

Alan, just to clarify what you're saying, if I became a dual citizen, then I would carry 2 passports. I would enter the UK with a British passport and return to the US on my US passport.
I could be wrong but I thought my US passport was stamped both ways, 1 out and 1 back in so they knew my entry and exit dates?

The US doesn’t always stamp the passport of returning citizens, it seems to be up to the particular agent. I don’t recall a passport stamp when leaving the US. Others may have different experience.

I may be mistaken, but thought both US and EU immigration agents scanned my passport. Would they get an electronic record that way, without having to rely on an old-fashioned stamp mark?

 

[brett]

We were planning to apply for UK citizenship (we qualify) as a way of getting an EU passport. Off the table now. We both have a Certificate of Entitlement which gives us everything except the vote but we have no real use for it.

Many people have dual citizenship simply by virtue of emigrating to a country not of their birth and making a citizenship decision.

Friends of ours who emigrated from South Africa told us that South Africans automatically loose their citizenship when they emigrate and become citizens of another country.

 

[Alan]

Alan, just to clarify what you're saying, if I became a dual citizen, then I would carry 2 passports. I would enter the UK with a British passport and return to the US on my US passport.
I could be wrong but I thought my US passport was stamped both ways, 1 out and 1 back in so they knew my entry and exit dates?

That's exactly how it works, even though Britain prefers, but does not mandate, you entering on your British passport, unless you are entering as a resident or to work. By law Australian citizens have to enter on their Australian passport so my daughter's partner always enters Australia on that passport and the USA on his US passport - he has no choice.

Our daughter is flying into Heathrow from LA in 8 days time dance and she always enters on her British passport. The line is much shorter at immigration and no questions asked. The last time she made this connection they were really late landing so she was able to shoot through immigration, get their bags and be at the booking desk to get onto the next flight to Newcastle before her US/Australian partner made it through.

 

[brett]

I may be mistaken, but thought both US and EU immigration agents scanned my passport. Would they get an electronic record that way, without having to rely on an old-fashioned stamp mark?

Most countries we have visited scan passports. Indeed, there are a number that take digital finger prints. One country, I forget which one, took our digital finger prints entering and leaving.

Next time you are going through passport control see if you can look over at the booth next to you. You might be able, as we have, see from afar the screen that pops up when the agent has scanned the passport. All we could see was the color passport photo. Lots of print data below it but we were too far away to see the format.

We really appreciate countries that require a pre entry electronic visa. We have done this several times in Australia. Last two times through Gold Coast Airport we were through in 5 minutes. Our waiting friends were amazed.

 

[jim584672]

We were planning to apply for UK citizenship (we qualify) as a way of getting an EU passport.

They rejoined the EU? I must have missed the news on that.

 

[brett]

Two of my colleagues went through the process of obtaining IRS clearance and renouncing their US citizenship. We know of several more who are currently considering the same route.

Tax reasons for both. They had both settled permanently in another country and had become citizens.. Tax filing and tax became a burden.

People are so much more mobile that they used to be. My SIL has enjoyed a working career working and living in Canada, UK, Hong Kong, Switzerland, Dubai, Russia, and now Spain.

 

[dg001]

There is actually a downside - but maybe not for this crowd (retired).

If you and your kids ever apply for secret clearance for a US govt job (not just military or DOD, even as a contractor), they might have to rescind the job offer if they find out about your dual citizenship.

A relative went through this - it was during the 2008 crisis, and he had to "give up" his Canadian citizenship at the embassy to get the job.

 

[brett]

They rejoined the EU? I must have missed the news on that.

The operative word is WERE.

Clearly we are very aware of the UK's EU status

 

[Brat]

One possible advantage of dual citizenship is that your children may be able to apply for citizenship.

 

[jim584672]

The operative word is WERE.

Clearly we are very aware of the UK's EU status

Right when I got mine they left. I'm still upset my passport has been diminished.

 

[marion10]

Children of diplomats are not eligible for citizenship solely based on the country they are born in because diplomats are not covered by the laws of their host country- the embassy is in effect, a little France or whatever. My friend was born in Tehran when her father was in the foreign service and her passport reads Tehran USA.

 

[Alan]

Children of diplomats are not eligible for citizenship solely based on the country they are born in because diplomats are not covered by the laws of their host country- the embassy is in effect, a little France or whatever. My friend was born in Tehran when her father was in the foreign service and her passport reads Tehran USA.

If you are referring to Boris Johnson then I misremembered. His father was working for the World Bank when Boris was born in New York.

 

[slagle]

As a practical matter, I enjoy having multiple citizenships and they have certainly given me great flexibility. Taxes come into play only when you live outside the US since the US is one of only a couple of countries with worldwide taxation so filing gets complex.

The only downside for me is a slight psychological one. I still feel I am „American“ - it is the land of my birth and is tied with my identity somehow. So I do feel a slight sense of imposterism and even guilt when I use another passport. When asked my nationality my instinctive response is „American“ even though that’s not the full answer now.

But the advantages far outweigh the slight drawback for me.

This is the most accurate response, generally speaking.

I am a born and raised American in process of getting Canadian citizenship (via spouse). I'm well past my prime of getting called for what would be an unlikely draft. Tax-wise, Canada is probably most beneficial compared to most other countries, as it has many tax-treaties with the US.



However, it does feel mighty strange to profess my loyalty to "the crown".

Practically, I will always be an American, and it is deeply ingrained in my identity (and blood line!).

Many people apply for citizenship for practical reasons. I'm one of those..(to never be hassled by Canadian immigration, and if for some unlikely reason, allows me to move back to Canada).

THE ONLY drawback I can think of is if you end up working for the US Government, specifically, the military. Background checks might (more of) a pain. Other than that, I can't really think of practical drawback.

 

[savory]

Another drawback suggested to me, but seemingly very remote, is that if you are in an international snafu of some sort, one citizenships country could point to the other citizenship country suggesting the problem you are having belongs to the other country. Leaving you in a stalemate, creating a new problem that needs to also needs to be solved.

I was never provided an example but it was presented to me as a “heads up” when making the final decision to pursue dual citizenship. That did not deter me.

 

[habelsgtb]

I was born in Canada, living in the USA since 1978 and recently with my daughters (born in USA) permission applied for her Canadian citizenship almost 1 year ago. They are processing these as a lower priority than other citizenships due to COVID staffing issues. She’s ok with that. She may also decide to get her Canadian passport. All this will give her more choices in where she wants to live and under what citizenship she wants to travel on. All a plus!

 

[Brat]

And your daughter may not be required to pay foreign student tuition at Canadian universities.

 

[jim584672]

For Commonwealth countries like Canada the UK allows for an Ancestry 5 year visa for British grandparents. That is a pathway to citizenship.

The EU pathway for British citizens is stay in Ireland and naturalize in 5 years. Brits have right of abode in Ireland.

 

[indiajust]

I diversify my investments, to prevent catastrophe. You have the ability to diversify political and nationstate risk. I would absolutely do this. Just in case. I suspect it might open the door to the entire commonwealth diaspora also, if you had interest in yet another foot on the land.