Enron Trial Verdict

[Papi]

So while it gives me substantial satisfaction to see these two crooks get their just dessert, what ever happend to the other crooks on the other side of the table -- the slimy Wall Street investment bankers? Anybody know?

From the article below, it looks like the goverment slapped these investment banking firms on the wrist and said "don't behave like that again". Seems rather lame to me, I think these guys should be behind bars as well so they could play bridge with Lay and Skilling

http://www.pbs.org/wsw/news/fortunearticle_20031013_01.html

 

[brewer12345]

I've been in the booty bandit joints - my favorite had the nickname Thunderdome (two men enter, one man leaves!)

So did you leave as the man, nor not?  O0

 

[youbet]

it looks like the goverment slapped these investment banking firms on the wrist and said "don't behave like that again".  Seems rather lame to me

My total agreement Papi.  My feeling is that the government decided it would have been difficult to get a conviction against any particular individuals from the banking firms, even though they are guilty as well.  Their activities were more subtle than Lay or Skilling and it would have been harder to convince the jury they directly harmed people.  So, rather than take the risk of putting them on trial and then having a jury exonerate them, they just didn't prosecute.  Too bad.

 

[Leonidas]

So did you leave as the man, nor not? O0

I'm still a virgin in that respect. The closest I ever came was a few years ago when I went to the St. Martin Parish Prison in Eastern LA. The next week some Cubans being held as INS detainees grabbed the warden and two guards and held them hostage for several days. The scariest thing about that situation is the general/universal rule that most prisons and jails have no hostage policy. Which means if we can get the hostages out safely through negotiation it's all good, but if the bad guys have a shiv to your throat and are escaping with you as a shield - well, we sure are sorry that we had to shoot through you to stop the bad guy from getting away.

 

[wabmester]

So, has anybody seen any indication that these or similar verdicts are having any effect?

Certainly doesn't seem like anybody at Fanny Mae got the message, for example.   Execs and boards are still in cahoots on every public company I'm aware of.   And stockholders don't seem particularly concerned.

I think we need about 20 more of these verdicts in quick succession in less visible cases before execs start fearing the SEC again.

 

[Dawg52]

So, has anybody seen any indication that these or similar verdicts are having any effect?

Certainly doesn't seem like anybody at Fanny Mae got the message, for example.   Execs and boards are still in cahoots on every public company I'm aware of.   And stockholders don't seem particularly concerned.

I think we need about 20 more of these verdicts in quick succession in less visible cases before execs start fearing the SEC again.

Everyone thinks their situation is different. They feel they have their tracks covered so that nothing will ever be discovered. Just the nature and mentality of the greedy corporate minds.

 

[Leonidas]

I think we need about 20 more of these verdicts in quick succession in less visible cases before execs start fearing the SEC again.

I think the Lay/Skilling convictions will raise their level of awareness. Before that I had not paid too much attention to the number of prosecutions, but in my morning paper they ran down the list of former Enron execs who are all serving time. There are a lot of them.

For a real crook it would be small change stuff - 5 years for a many of them - but for a $5,000 suit-wearing, $5 a cup latte-sipping, Porsche-driving corporate thief rat to spend five years in the can as well as forfeiting millions of bucks of their ill-gotten gains - that's justice. It's also got to put at least a modicum of good old fashioned "Fear of God" in the hearts of some who might think about doing wrong.

Yesterday I heard that the Corporate Fraud Task Force that Bush put together as a result of Enron has won more than 90 convictions so far and there are a ton of indictees awaiting trial.

Thievery and criminality have been around since humanity took it's first steps and it will always be here. But, most people are afraid of getting caught and being punished. This enforcement action will encourage more of them to keep on the right side of the law once they realize that the G is serious about spanking corporate crooks.

Everyone thinks their situation is different. They feel they have their tracks covered so that nothing will ever be discovered. Just the nature and mentality of the greedy corporate minds.

Most criminals do their crimes because they think they can get away with it. They're usually wrong because they don't apply logic or they're sociopaths. Except for the severe cases they are capable of fear and if they are convinced that the odds are good that they will be caught (and/or the potential punishment is scary) a lot of them will at least reduce their criminal behavior if not just foregoing it all.

 

[Sam]

I'm so glad that these two are found guilty.  I'm not sure I'm happy with the punishment.  Whatever the punishment might be, it would never fit the crime committed.  I can't help thinking about the people who got wiped out financially by these crooks.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I think the Lay/Skilling convictions will raise their level of awareness.

For a while. These asshats think they're smarter than everyone else and wont get caught. Lay is still beside himself about the conviction and is quite certain he did nothing wrong and that the conviction will be overturned.

What you'll see is more effort made to create buffers and isolations to produce better "I didnt know/I wasnt involved" arguments in court, rather than actual good behavior.

 

[Arif]

I just finished reading THe Smartest Guys in the Room and is it just me or did Andy Fastow get off WAY to easy? He got 10 years in prison and paid 20 million in fines. If what the book reports as his true earnings from those off-balance sheet entities he still has 40 million in the bag. So in exchange for ten years of his life he gets to keep millions? To add insult to injury the jury even said Fastow didn't add much to the government's case. Amazing

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

The guy who starts talking first gets the best deal...

 

[Brat]

What I noticed was the FL home construction programs of several Enron execs.  If memory serves me correctly, a home in FL is protected in bankruptcy without regard to value.  I think those folks thought they were subject to civil claims, not criminal. 

What I want to know is how much $$$ the convicted get to keep.  As much as I feel for their families there is no reason why they should be protected more than othe former employees or investors.

 

[Nords]

I just finished reading THe Smartest Guys in the Room and is it just me or did Andy Fastow get off WAY to easy? He got 10 years in prison and paid 20 million in fines. If what the book reports as his true earnings from those off-balance sheet entities he still has 40 million in the bag. So in exchange for ten years of his life he gets to keep millions? To add insult to injury the jury even said Fastow didn't add much to the government's case. Amazing

How soon we forget Boesky & Milliken?

We'll have to ask those guys if they feel that they made a good deal. It's amazing that more people aren't signing up to spend a few years in prison for a few million $$!

 

[gtmeouttahere]

Prison....3 hots and a cott...cable tv...room service...scheduled weight training...basketball...free rent...free computer courses...free clothing...playing games...occasional BJ's...40 million $$....mmmm, sounds like a pretty good way to kinda ease into ER!!!

 

[Arif]

How soon we forget Boesky & Milliken?

We'll have to ask those guys if they feel that they made a good deal. It's amazing that more people aren't signing up to spend a few years in prison for a few million $$!

Actually Highly Confident was the first book I read about corp greed and corruption starring Michael Milken and Ivan Boesky. If I recall correctly the book actually slanted the indictment and conviction as a witch hunt.
BTW- What is Milken up to now? Last time I heard he was trying to cure prostate cancer and founding Leap Frog.
I am sure he still has his millions as well. I recall him making over 500 million over two years doing junk bond deals. That will definately buy you a lot of enemies, rightly or wrongly.

 

[farmerEd]

So does GWB give a pardon to Lay and others on his way out the door? I wouldn't bet against it.

 

[youbet]

Sounds like Lay and Skilling have a plan and a backup plan.  Just finished reading where our next Pres, HRC, is working with Lay and Skilling on a plan to pardon them as soon as she is in office.  Why?  Since MegaCorp 100% determines pres election outcomes, she wants them to let "the boardroom boys" know she's OK and give her the nod to win the election.

So, the predicted GWB pardon may simply be to head off HRC buying the election with a promise to do the same thing!

 

[farmerEd]

Nobody is going to get a pardon at the beginning of a presidential term (except ex-presidents). People get pardoned on the way out...not the way in.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Prison....3 hots and a cott...cable tv...room service...scheduled weight training...basketball...free rent...free computer courses...free clothing...playing games...occasional BJ's...40 million $$....mmmm, sounds like a pretty good way to kinda ease into ER!!!

Ah yes, the old "baguette" maneuver.

 

[Arif]

Ah yes, the old "baguette" maneuver.

According to a google search:

What to Look for in a Baguette

The first sign of quality is a hard crust of a rich, dark caramel color. A flimsy crust, a pale, straw yellow color and an underside marked by tiny dots all indicate that the bread has been cooked in an industrial oven often from frozen dough.

The inside (or "mie" in French) of a good baguette should be a creamy color with large irregular air holes. The industrial loaf, on the other hand, will be cotton white, with tiny, regular air holes.

The texture of a good baguette should be moist and slightly chewy with a full, almost nutty flavor. The industrial version is cottony, tasteless and dry.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I mean where you buy a one way airline ticket to a country with really, really nice prisons...say switzerland. Buy a baguette. Go into a bank and wave the baguette in a menacing manner, announce that you're robbing the bank, then wait and continue to wave the baguette until the authorities show up.

Enjoy your three digit budget, 15-20 year ER.

And when you get out, all you need to buy is another baguette.

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

TH,

My last-ditch retirement plan is to rob a bank in Canada. The worst case outcome is that I get away with it.

Ed

 

[astromeria]

So, the predicted GWB pardon may simply be to head off HRC buying the election with a promise to do the same thing!

You heard it here first: the wing-nuts have transitioned to blaming Bush's mistakes on Hillary instead of Bill

 

[Texas Proud]

If it was me... I would pack as much money as I could get my hands on and be going to the nicest country that will not extradite me...

Lay on the beach and live my life...

For Lay, it is probably a death sentence... for Skilling, he will more than likely be in his 70s before getting out.. remember Ebbers got 20 (or was it 25??) and even though his was bigger, it was not as public...

 

[youbet]

nm