Foundation Repairs

[MC Rider]

Presented for your Friday afternoon enjoyment and or comments.


Apparently we need some foundation repairs to our 1400 sf, 1956 house on a raised foundation. Our house is for sale and we got it under contract, but then the buyers backed out, the main issue apparently being a crack in a foundation girder support beam. Their inspector wants to replace the whole beam and 3 pylons for $16k+. Looks like a big splinter to me and maybe does not need replacement, maybe sister in some extra wood. I don't know. We did have it bolted to the perimeter for EQ safety back in 2010.



Anyway Monday another foundation company rec by our Realtor is coming and hopefully gives a much less crazy number.

 

[folivier]

Seems they could add a "cripple" (sister) to it? Basically that is another beam that is nailed or bolted to the broken one for the additional support.
I'd definitely have another company look at it, someone with experience. Is their inspector an engineer or just an inspector? Sounds like the buyers were just looking for an out.

 

[zinger1457]

Hard to see what's going on in that photo but it sure looks like a lot more than just a crack, looks like the entire beam is snapped. Need to find out why the original beam failed before coming up with a fix. Was it undersized, rot?

 

[MC Rider]

Their inspector was the same person as gave the bid. I think his web site said over 500 jobs completed. Not a huge number.



It had no details on cost, just 3 piers, 1 beam, $16k+. He showed me a video on his phone, and when he pulled his gloved finger out the "splinter" went back against the beam. Termite report was not bad, I don't think there is rot, it's dry under there. The house has been here since 1956. I will learn more next week. I'm hoping a sister or something not so expensive works.

 

[Car-Guy]

Just curious, if you were the buyer would you be comfortable with a sister fix on a foundation beam (we call it scabbing around here)?

I'll admit, 16k sounds like a lot, regardless.

 

[calmloki]

Their inspector was the same person as gave the bid. I think his web site said over 500 jobs completed. Not a huge number.



It had no details on cost, just 3 piers, 1 beam, $16k+. He showed me a video on his phone, and when he pulled his gloved finger out the "splinter" went back against the beam. Termite report was not bad, I don't think there is rot, it's dry under there. The house has been here since 1956. I will learn more next week. I'm hoping a sister or something not so expensive works.

Wow. Their inspector was the same person that gave the bid.

Just absorbing that.

Isn't the crack at right angles to the load in your picture? Is that how wood (or any thing else) breaks when subjected to a load?

 

[MC Rider]

Just curious, if you were the buyer would you be comfortable with a sister fix on a foundation beam (we call it scabbing around here)?

I'll admit, 16k sounds like a lot, regardless.

Sure, why not. I think it would be at least as strong as original, maybe better. We added a lot of UFPs and hardware down there previously.



Calmloki said:


Wow. Their inspector was the same person that gave the bid.
Just absorbing that.
Isn't the crack at right angles to the load in your picture?


Conflict of interest you think?
Load in the photo is from top down, the pic is right side up.
The only side load would be from ground movement, or a truck hitting the house, I'd think. Maybe wind now and then.

 

[euro]

It took me 10 minutes of staring at the picture to figure out what is going on..... that gloved hand is really confusing.... Anyway, just like everyone else, I have a nose and like everyone else, I have an opinion


And in my opinion, this is not a very big deal. Seems totally adequate to sister a new piece. Personally, I'd be totally comfortable buying this property.

 

[calmloki]

Sure, why not. I think it would be at least as strong as original, maybe better. We added a lot of UFPs and hardware down there previously.



Calmloki said:


Wow. Their inspector was the same person that gave the bid.
Just absorbing that.
Isn't the crack at right angles to the load in your picture?


Conflict of interest you think?
Load in the photo is from top down, the pic is right side up.
The only side load would be from ground movement, or a truck hitting the house, I'd think. Maybe wind now and then.

Some inspectors have their heads up and firmly locked. ahem. If that split section tucks right back into its original location I can't see an ongoing settling problem.

 

[Scrapr]

Their inspector was the same person as gave the bid. I think his web site said over 500 jobs completed. Not a huge number

That is one job a week for 10 years. That;s a decent run. Probably doing it himself. I'm not knowlegable enough to say if that number is high or not though

I did see a sign at a Lumber store/gas store: If you think our gas is high you should see our employees LOL

 

[MC Rider]

Some inspectors have their heads up and firmly locked. ahem. If that split section tucks right back into its original location I can't see an ongoing settling problem.

LOL. It seemed to tuck right back in with his cell phone video. Doors and windows all work fine, and not many cracks coming off their corners inside. None big. The general home inspection guy only noted 2 vertical cracks in the concrete perimeter, and those can be epoxied for not a lot of dinero. Mondays company specializes in repair of this type foundation. To be continued. We have no choice.

 

[Walt34]

It doesn't look like a big deal to me either, but then I'm also not a structural engineer, which is who I would consult on this.

 

[MC Rider]

It doesn't look like a big deal to me either, but then I'm also not a structural engineer, which is who I would consult on this.

Web site says they have their own engineering dept. I suppose that could be 1 person. Looking forward to their inspection.

 

[Aerides]

It took me 10 minutes of staring at the picture to figure out what is going on..... that gloved hand is really confusing.... Anyway, just like everyone else, I have a nose and like everyone else, I have an opinion


And in my opinion, this is not a very big deal. Seems totally adequate to sister a new piece. Personally, I'd be totally comfortable buying this property.

However, I would guestimate that 97% of buyers have no idea what "sister a new piece" means vs a new beam. Me? I'd want it perfect, or I'd move on - especially in today's market. 6 months ago was very different.

"something something...foundation" and I would run to the next house.

 

[pb4uski]

I'm not a structural engineer, but it doesn't look like a big deal to me. I would sister 4' long x 8" wide and 1/4" thick steel plates on each side with bolts and nuts through the beam and declare victory.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I hired a structural engineer who doesn't do repair work to look at our foundation the first time we had it done. Then we got bid to do the work from the foundation companies based on the structural engineers' report.

I had some updates done recently again and the bids ranged from $1.5K to $40K from foundation companies. We did the $1.5K adjustments, suggested by an engineer who worked for the foundation company who came out and measured everything, but had some cracks and uneven floors since then. I called them back and they didn't return my calls. They were highly rated on Nextdoor and Yelp. This reminds me to add my review of their work for us.

I'm going back to the independent structural engineer next.

 

[RobbieB]

Cheap failed eh? Bummer dude.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Cheap failed eh? Bummer dude.

It was adjusting some existing screw jacks which were already in place, but thanks for the unnecessary snarky comment without knowing any of the actual details of the work suggested by a highly rated foundation company. One of the other bids was a $40K drainage system, so I wasn't going to do that without the independent structural engineer report. But the screw jacks are supposed to be adjusted regularly anyway.

 

[aja8888]

It was adjusting some existing screw jacks which were already in place, but thanks for the unnecessary snarky comment without knowing any of the actual details of the work. One of the other bids was a $40K drainage system, so I wasn't going to do that without the independent structural engineer report. But the screw jacks are supposed to be adjusted regularly anyway.

Jacks? What are the jacks there for?

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Jacks? What are the jacks there for?

They are used by foundation companies to level foundations that have settled - https://www.eppconcrete.com/house-jacking-with-crawl-space-jacks-and-push-piers/

 

[Ronstar]

I would hire a structural engineer for an opinion

 

[aja8888]

They are used by foundation companies to level foundations.

We had my daughter's house leveled when the garage floor split and the end side sank about 4". We had a foundation company jack up the low end and install concrete piles. The jacking was temporary to get the level back to normal and then install the piles. The jacks were then removed.

You mean you still have the temporary foundation jacks in place? I don't think that is appropriate. They shouldn't be left in place one the foundation is leveled and repaired.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

We had my daughter's house leveled when the garage floor split and the end side sank about 4". We had a foundation company jack up the low end and install concrete piles. The jacking was temporary to get the level back to normal and then install the piles. The jacks were then removed.

You mean you still have the temporary foundation jacks in place? I don't think that is appropriate. They shouldn't be left in place one the foundation is leveled and repaired.

Well, I am not an expert in foundation work but online articles, the structural engineer, and the local foundation companies I've hired say ours are permanent and can be adjusted as needed.

 

[aja8888]

Well, I am not an expert in foundation work but online articles, the structural engineer, and the local foundation companies I've hired say ours are permanent and can be adjusted as needed.

You must not be on a slab then. Maybe have a crawl space under the house like the OP? Our two houses in Ca when we lived there were built on a poured concrete slab.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

You must not be on a slab then. Maybe have a crawl space under the house like the OP? Our two houses in Ca when we lived there were built on a poured concrete slab.

Yes, it is a crawl space. I think the issue with the house is coming from the attached garage, which is slab and the company I hired didn't do slab work. If all you have is a hammer, kind of thing. So I'm going to bring back the original independent engineer or find someone like him. But it is an old house so the foundation issues, which aren't too bad, have to wait in line behind all the other major projects that need fixing / replacing.