Roof Leak

[11522914]

So a few days ago we were finishing packing up my daughter's stuff to move her 3 hours away to her college apartment the next morning.

She yells downstairs, dad, there's a water leak stain in my room's ceiling.

Great, I thought. Never experienced any water stains in the ceiling before. So I trot upstairs to check it out and sure enough there a nice small stain growing on the ceiling.

We just had a severe rain storm go through an hour ago.

I'm thinking did the storm knock a tree branch down and put a hole in the roof. It's dark outside by now.

So I get my flashlight and look on the roof. Doesn't appear to be anything unusual on the roof. I'm thinking we had some raccoons recently trotting across all our roofs. Maybe they damaged it somehow?

So I bring my 8 foot ladder in the house so I can access the upstairs attic door. Get up in the attic and everything looks good. Of course it's very hot up there.

I yell down I don't see anything. So I asked them to tap on the ceiling so I can find where the stain formed.

They start tapping, I pull up the insulation and found the stain. It's right below the bathroom PVC pipe that vents out the roof.

I put my hand around the pipe and it's slightly wet. I put a bucket under the pipe as I'll have to deal with this later.

After doing some research apparently there is some kind of rubber seal around where the pipe exits the roof to prevent it from leaking. And I guess these can tear or split. My roof is about 9 years old.

My question to you more experienced folks - does that sound like what the problem is?

Am I missing something?

Is this an expensive repair since I will not be climbing up on the roof and have to hire someone?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Walt34]

Yes. When we bought our new house we discovered that the builder (or his sub) had forgotten to install one of those rubber boots. It's a cheap and simple fix. The drywall repairs/painting are not.

 

[11522914]

Yes. When we bought our new house we discovered that the builder (or his sub) had forgotten to install one of those rubber boots. It's a cheap and simple fix. The drywall repairs/painting are not.

Thanks for the quick response. The leak was not that bad on the ceiling. Maybe 4 by 1 inch. I used a hair dryer to dry the drywall in the attic before we left. The drywall did not appear to be damaged just moist.

Will the drywall dry out enough without having to replace and I can just paint the ceiling or is it ruined?

 

[Car-Guy]

Solved many leak problems for me on aging roofs around vents and skylights. Comes in clear and black, works inside and out. YMMV

If the drywall is only stained and not damaged, you can often find a matching spray paint for coverage/touch ups and feather it in.

 

[Walt34]

Thanks for the quick response. The leak was not that bad on the ceiling. Maybe 4 by 1 inch. I used a hair dryer to dry the drywall in the attic before we left. The drywall did not appear to be damaged just moist.

Will the drywall dry out enough without having to replace and I can just paint the ceiling or is it ruined?

You can try painting. BUT FIRST use a primer on it, otherwise there's a good chance the stain will show through the paint. As far as the drywall being damaged, that depends on how wet it was and how long it stayed wet. If you're lucky the hair dryer will be enough.

 

[11522914]

You can try painting. BUT FIRST use a primer on it, otherwise there's a good chance the stain will show through the paint. As far as the drywall being damaged, that depends on how wet it was and how long it stayed wet. If you're lucky the hair dryer will be enough.

Thanks again Walt. I'll give it another look when I get back home to see if it completely dried out. It's been in the mid 90s with no rain while I've been gone so hopefully it completely dried out.

 

[bobandsherry]

Thanks again Walt. I'll give it another look when I get back home to see if it completely dried out. It's been in the mid 90s with no rain while I've been gone so hopefully it completely dried out.

Before priming or painting, mix up water and bleach in 2 parts water to 1 part bleach. Then spray area and wipe the stain. Let it dry, take another look and if still visible stain spray and wipe it down once again. May need to repeat another time or two. You'll be surprised at how much it lightens and/or removes the stain. You may not need to paint the area. Here's a YouTube video with info.

https://youtu.be/C3O48RW5hCM

 

[11522914]

Before priming or painting, mix up water and bleach in 2 parts water to 1 part bleach. Then spray area and wipe the stain. Let it dry, take another look and if still visible stain spray and wipe it down once again. May need to repeat another time or two. You'll be surprised at how much it lightens and/or removes the stain. You may not need to paint the area. Here's a YouTube video with info.

https://youtu.be/C3O48RW5hCM

Thanks. I’ll certainly try that.

 

[yhoomajor]

Curious to know - what is the difference between drywall that was just wet for sometime and can be blow-dried, vs "damaged drywall", that was wet for much longer? Are there any visual clues/indication of damaged drywall?

Asking because, I had something similar (although leak in my case was from air conditioner (air blower) leaking condensate water in the attic, and by the time we noticed and stopped the leak was couple of days.

 

[JoeWras]

9 years with a probably cheap boot? 100% the problem. You need to fix this and then worry about the drywall. There are "repair boots" that go over the old one. That's an easy DIY fix. (Perma-Boot is one brand.) Or you can have a roofer re-flash it. I had some leaks like this on every vent and although I'm DIY, I had recent surgery so I had a roof leak specialist come out. He installed these plus other metal flashing. The guy was a wizard and it fixed all the leaks. That gave me 7 more years before I had to re-roof due to shingle failure. It was a couple hundred bucks well spent.

As for drywall. It sounds like you caught it fast so there's no mold. The drywall will be fine if so. Look at the back in the attic. No mold? You are OK. Inside, as long as the paper is attached to the gypsum, you are OK. Follow the earlier advice about primers and such.

 

[JoeWras]

Curious to know - what is the difference between drywall that was just wet for sometime and can be blow-dried, vs "damaged drywall", that was wet for much longer? Are there any visual clues/indication of damaged drywall?

Asking because, I had something similar (although leak in my case was from air conditioner (air blower) leaking condensate water in the attic, and by the time we noticed and stopped the leak was couple of days.

Typically mold or de-lamination of the paper from the gypsum. AC condensate leaks are a spawn of the devil. They can be slow enough to not show, but have enough volume to keep the back wet and grow mold. Sounds like your leak opened up and you found it fast. Normally a few days is not a problem. The real problems start when it goes weeks or months with a tiny drip.

If you can see the back of the drywall in the attic, you can look for mold. If you have none, you are OK. A little water stain is not a problem if the paper has not bubbled or pulled away from the gypsum.

Mold can be green, white or black. Fuzzy or not. Sometimes black dots. Don't panic, most is not a major problem. If you have it and it is localized to a small section of just a few sq ft, replace it yourself or get a local independent. You must replace drywall with mold, it cannot be cleaned. Wood can be treated, drywall cannot. If you hire the big companies, they are guaranteed to make a big deal ($10k) out of any mold because they'll assume it is the worst type (unlikely) and go full bore on remediation, which usually isn't necessary. And don't assume insurance will cover that. Many policies have exceptions now!

Here's a bad case of mold. You are looking at the back side of drywall. I personally tore this out on a flood disaster house I worked on. Here we have both green and white mold:

 

[street]

So a few days ago we were finishing packing up my daughter's stuff to move her 3 hours away to her college apartment the next morning.

She yells downstairs, dad, there's a water leak stain in my room's ceiling.

Great, I thought. Never experienced any water stains in the ceiling before. So I trot upstairs to check it out and sure enough there a nice small stain growing on the ceiling.

We just had a severe rain storm go through an hour ago.

I'm thinking did the storm knock a tree branch down and put a hole in the roof. It's dark outside by now.

So I get my flashlight and look on the roof. Doesn't appear to be anything unusual on the roof. I'm thinking we had some raccoons recently trotting across all our roofs. Maybe they damaged it somehow?

So I bring my 8 foot ladder in the house so I can access the upstairs attic door. Get up in the attic and everything looks good. Of course it's very hot up there.

I yell down I don't see anything. So I asked them to tap on the ceiling so I can find where the stain formed.

They start tapping, I pull up the insulation and found the stain. It's right below the bathroom PVC pipe that vents out the roof.

I put my hand around the pipe and it's slightly wet. I put a bucket under the pipe as I'll have to deal with this later.

After doing some research apparently there is some kind of rubber seal around where the pipe exits the roof to prevent it from leaking. And I guess these can tear or split. My roof is about 9 years old.

My question to you more experienced folks - does that sound like what the problem is?

Am I missing something?

Is this an expensive repair since I will not be climbing up on the roof and have to hire someone?

Thanks in advance.

Yes, just like others have said. A very good possibility that is the issue. You can buy the flange and the rubber boot as a unit. Then you just need to install the boot and chalk.

 

[target2019]

The vent seal in the roof should be looked at, as to how it's installed. How were the other vents done? Is the flashing part under the roofing shingles, and so on.

It sounds like the new roof guys did a shoddy job.

I don't recommend you go up on the roof. DIY repairs may work temporarily, and so on.

When I had my roof installed, I monitored everything that was done, and kept in touch with the supervisor. What I know from experience is that sh*t happens, and you can't always inspect every detail of a job.

I had the bathroom vent leak, and temporarily repaired it until we got the new roof.

 

[JoeWras]

The vent seal in the roof should be looked at, as to how it's installed. How were the other vents done? Is the flashing part under the roofing shingles, and so on.

It sounds like the new roof guys did a shoddy job.

I don't recommend you go up on the roof. DIY repairs may work temporarily, and so on.

When I had my roof installed, I monitored everything that was done, and kept in touch with the supervisor. What I know from experience is that sh*t happens, and you can't always inspect every detail of a job.

I had the bathroom vent leak, and temporarily repaired it until we got the new roof.

Yeah, even me the perpetual DIYer hired a guy for my flashing leaks.

You have a very good point. If there is one vent boot leaking, the others are right behind (i.e. shoddy work, parts).

Mine started leaking at about age 18. The initial job was just "OK". I got a good look at these boots. It was more about the material cracking and pulling away from the pipes. I think the quality of these boots is all over the place. It doesn't surprise me to hear about one going at 9 years.

Maybe we should go back to the lead flashings?

 

[CRLLS]

If you are going to have the rubber vent boot replaced, consider getting it replaced with the lead version. It is not affected by UV deterioration. That is what my roofer used 8 years ago. It will last the life of the shingles and then some.

 

[target2019]

Yeah, even me the perpetual DIYer hired a guy for my flashing leaks.

You have a very good point. If there is one vent boot leaking, the others are right behind (i.e. shoddy work, parts).

Mine started leaking at about age 18. The initial job was just "OK". I got a good look at these boots. It was more about the material cracking and pulling away from the pipes. I think the quality of these boots is all over the place. It doesn't surprise me to hear about one going at 9 years.

Maybe we should go back to the lead flashings?

I have no idea what lead flashing is, as I never saw it.

My boot/flashing was probably installed when previous owner put on a second roof. It was the rubber that deteriorated. My solution was to buy a new boot with flashing, cut off the new boot, and use that over the old boot. I used rubber sealant where the old boot met the new boot. As you can tell, I am likely descended from a MacGyver.

 

[11522914]

9 years with a probably cheap boot? 100% the problem. You need to fix this and then worry about the drywall. There are "repair boots" that go over the old one. That's an easy DIY fix. (Perma-Boot is one brand.) Or you can have a roofer re-flash it. I had some leaks like this on every vent and although I'm DIY, I had recent surgery so I had a roof leak specialist come out. He installed these plus other metal flashing. The guy was a wizard and it fixed all the leaks. That gave me 7 more years before I had to re-roof due to shingle failure. It was a couple hundred bucks well spent.



As for drywall. It sounds like you caught it fast so there's no mold. The drywall will be fine if so. Look at the back in the attic. No mold? You are OK. Inside, as long as the paper is attached to the gypsum, you are OK. Follow the earlier advice about primers and such.

Is there some kind of cap that goes on top of the boot to prevent rain from accumulating in the vent pipe or is that not an issue?

 

[Ronstar]

Is there some kind of cap that goes on top of the boot to prevent rain from accumulating in the vent pipe or is that not an issue?

No, rain goes into the vent pipe and goes straight into the waste line to the sewer. The vent lines are connected to the waste lines, and the vent pipes are vertical with no place for water to accumulate.


As to the boot - Even though I've installed boots many years ago, I would hire a roofer to fix anything on the roof at this stage of our lives.

As to the drywall. Sounds like it is stable and mold free. I'd primer the stain with Kilz and then paint to match.

 

[11522914]

No, rain goes into the vent pipe and goes straight into the waste line to the sewer. The vent lines are connected to the waste lines, and the vent pipes are vertical with no place for water to accumulate.


As to the boot - Even though I've installed boots many years ago, I would hire a roofer to fix anything on the roof at this stage of our lives.

As to the drywall. Sounds like it is stable and mold free. I'd primer the stain with Kilz and then paint to match.

I learn something new every day. Thanks

 

[folivier]

I agree it's probably the boots over the pipe or the flashing. When we recently sold our house we had to replace all of the vent covers and boots. When I got estimates they ranged from $600 to $2400. I went with the cheap price and they came out the next day and did a great job replacing them all. Good luck with getting someone out to replace them.

 

[Fermion]

I did our entire roof for our new house build and so am well familiar with these vent stacks and the flashing. On a new roof install it is really easy, but it isn't very hard on an existing roof either. We actually had to add another 3 inch diameter PVC vent pipe for a radon system we will never use (code, don't get me started). I thought it was going to be a long install, but it took me all of 20 minutes.

1) Buy one of these: https://www.supplyhouse.com/Oatey-1...gREr2TzOdZ5yGG7J0RMRrPFGirnA4oPRoC1UQQAvD_BwE

2) Pry up the shingles on the sides and above the old flashing piece. Use something thin and flat to break the sticky bond between the shingles. You may have some roof tar there too if the original installer did their job correctly. Hopefully they didn't nail down the flashing.

3) Remove the old flashing/boot, slide on the new flashing/boot, and work it under the shingles on the top and sides. The lower flashing part should be on top of the shingles below it.

4) Use a roof tar to stick the side and upper shingles back down to the metal flashing. This comes in a caulk gun type tube.

 

[jrgators]

Definitely need to replace the boot. And if you have other pipes coming up through your roof, I would go ahead and replace them all.

 

[yhoomajor]

Thank you JoeWras. Much appreciated. I'm in Phoenix metro area. So usually its very dry most of the year. I will try to DIY the drywall repair when its bit cooler. For now I have temporarily fixed the source of leak (primary drain is clogged, secondary drain pan is rusted and has now holes in the metal drain pan). Permanent fix would be to: a) fix the primary drain clog. b) replace the secondary drain pan with plastic pan preferably. Some of the ducts are in the way. So I will call some local HVAC companies in the fall to do these two.

Typically mold or de-lamination of the paper from the gypsum. AC condensate leaks are a spawn of the devil. They can be slow enough to not show, but have enough volume to keep the back wet and grow mold. Sounds like your leak opened up and you found it fast. Normally a few days is not a problem. The real problems start when it goes weeks or months with a tiny drip.

If you can see the back of the drywall in the attic, you can look for mold. If you have none, you are OK. A little water stain is not a problem if the paper has not bubbled or pulled away from the gypsum.

Here's a bad case of mold. You are looking at the back side of drywall. I personally tore this out on a flood disaster house I worked on. Here we have both green and white mold:

 

[JoeWras]

Is there some kind of cap that goes on top of the boot to prevent rain from accumulating in the vent pipe or is that not an issue?

No, rain goes into the vent pipe and goes straight into the waste line to the sewer. The vent lines are connected to the waste lines, and the vent pipes are vertical with no place for water to accumulate.

A month or two ago there was a picture and story on the plumbing subreddit. All the vents had caps on it. The homeowner thought they "blew off" and put caps on.

Then the plumbing went to heck, nothing was working and there were smells. Plumber got called and found the self inflicted issue.

 

[JoeWras]

I think lead flashing is still legal most places, but it seems to have fallen out of favor. You say "lead" and it is right up there with with "asbestos" and "mold."

Here's what it looks like. The nice thing is it is bent over into the pipe, so there is no rubber boot seal, which is usually where the problem is.