Katsmeow
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2009
- Messages
- 5,308
Thanks for all the info. It is very helpful. I need to go out and look at the gas meter.
Honestly, I don't know anything about the gas line to the pool and what size it is. I consider gas to have two main safety concerns. Explosion and carbon monoxide. I think the first is less of a concern than the second. My thought was that if any natural gas came into the house then there was a carbon monoxide risk. If no gas came into the house, then there was no risk (well, theoretically there could be from leaving the car running the garage but we never do that). I don't think it is a dealbreaker risk but if it was one that I didn't have so much the better. At a prior house there was no natural gas available at all. It was an all electric house (it was that way when we bought it). We did have a fireplace and it was serviced from a small propane tank on the side porch (we never used it as I don't like fireplaces).
I actually rarely use the pool heater to heat the entire pool. However, I need to pool heater to heat the spa in the pool. I do use that. And you have to heat the water for the spa.
I did look at some options for the pool other than gas, but the problem is the spa. It needs to be able to heat up relatively quickly when we use the spa in the colder times of the year. While I might not use the spa when it was really cold, I could easily use it when the outside temp was in the 50s.
Thank you. This is very specific and helpful.
We already pay for the gas hookup. During warmer months we use gas only for the hot water heater and the pool heater and we pay about $26 or so for that relatively minimal usage. If we got rid of the gas hot water heater I think we would spend close to the same amount.
As for why go electric. I have talked to some HVAC people and researched it in this area. Roughly 80% of new systems here are heat pumps. Some HVAC people say that it is getting to be over 90% of new installations. Given the predominance of heat pump systems I am fine with the heat pump system. I had an all electric house in the past (not a heat pump so winter electric bills were quite expensive) and I liked it. I didn't have to worry about carbon monoxide or other natural gas safety concerns. I am not rabid about it. My last house had gas heat and had a gas tankless water heater. They were fine. But, if I am doing something new I think I want to go with what is commonly done in this area. We had a gas tankless water heater with 4 people in our house and never had a problem. My research says that electric ones are fine for 2 person houses which we have. I once had a electric hybrid water heater with a tank and I liked it as well. However, we are very space constrained so I want to go tankless.
I understand about the additional electrical. We have already talked to an electrician. We have no slots left in our electrical panel and are going to be doing some significant remodeling. We will have to get a sub-panel at the very least no matter what. So that is an expense we will have even if we get a conventional AC and natural gas furnace.
Did I say that it lowers my costs? I don't believe I ever said that.
I never said anything about cost.... I am sure I will do the heat pump. We don't often get down to 20 here. I am sure that is why the vast majority of new systems here are heat pumps. I am still not sure if I will get a gas tankless or electric tankless system. I want tankless because with the remodeling we are doing we don't have room for a large tank. I would consider a gas tankless system IF I can't get sufficient hot water from an electric tankless. But we fit within the group that usually can -- 2 people without high hot water usage. It is possible that I could change my mind in which case the pool heater question is a moot point.
In most instances even if you have gas you lose those things when your power goes out. Modern gas furnaces usually use electricity for electric ignition.
If she's got safety worries about a 1" natural gas line that is under less than 1 psi of pressure (after the regulator/meter), I'm guessing the idea of a couple hundred pounds of liquid propane in proximity to her dwelling is probably a no-go. But, maybe not.
Honestly, I don't know anything about the gas line to the pool and what size it is. I consider gas to have two main safety concerns. Explosion and carbon monoxide. I think the first is less of a concern than the second. My thought was that if any natural gas came into the house then there was a carbon monoxide risk. If no gas came into the house, then there was no risk (well, theoretically there could be from leaving the car running the garage but we never do that). I don't think it is a dealbreaker risk but if it was one that I didn't have so much the better. At a prior house there was no natural gas available at all. It was an all electric house (it was that way when we bought it). We did have a fireplace and it was serviced from a small propane tank on the side porch (we never used it as I don't like fireplaces).
OP lives in TX and needs a pool heater ?
I actually rarely use the pool heater to heat the entire pool. However, I need to pool heater to heat the spa in the pool. I do use that. And you have to heat the water for the spa.
Look into a small solar outfit for the pool only-they are very popular and inexpensive. Makes sense: sunny days are when you most use the pool!
I did look at some options for the pool other than gas, but the problem is the spa. It needs to be able to heat up relatively quickly when we use the spa in the colder times of the year. While I might not use the spa when it was really cold, I could easily use it when the outside temp was in the 50s.
You should have a shut-off valve for the gas right where it enters the house. Sometimes it's co-located with a low pressure regulator. First verify your pool heater lights off correctly. Next, try shutting off this valve, then testing to see if the pool heater will light off. If it does, then the pool heater is serviced with it's own unique line, separate from the house.
Also, the gas line is usually some sort of plastic. When it is buried in the ground, a 'tracer' wire is buried with it. This is usually a copper wire that can be detected with a metal detector. You may try borrowing a metal detector and searching for a gas line that runs through the underground between the gas meter and the pool heater.
Thank you. This is very specific and helpful.
If you've got natural gas service, it's going to cost you dearly for a monthly hookup charge just to have the service for the pool. ....
If you have natural gas service, why would you switch to electric heat pump and a tankless electric hot water heater? Natural gas is more efficient and feels so much warmer. Use enough hot water with electric tankless, and you might see the lights dim in the neighborhood (LOL!) It might take another breaker box to hook up 4 220 electrical circuits (8 breakers) for the water heater--$1000? $2000? And does your current electrical service even have enough unused space for the heat pump? My box is full.
We already pay for the gas hookup. During warmer months we use gas only for the hot water heater and the pool heater and we pay about $26 or so for that relatively minimal usage. If we got rid of the gas hot water heater I think we would spend close to the same amount.
As for why go electric. I have talked to some HVAC people and researched it in this area. Roughly 80% of new systems here are heat pumps. Some HVAC people say that it is getting to be over 90% of new installations. Given the predominance of heat pump systems I am fine with the heat pump system. I had an all electric house in the past (not a heat pump so winter electric bills were quite expensive) and I liked it. I didn't have to worry about carbon monoxide or other natural gas safety concerns. I am not rabid about it. My last house had gas heat and had a gas tankless water heater. They were fine. But, if I am doing something new I think I want to go with what is commonly done in this area. We had a gas tankless water heater with 4 people in our house and never had a problem. My research says that electric ones are fine for 2 person houses which we have. I once had a electric hybrid water heater with a tank and I liked it as well. However, we are very space constrained so I want to go tankless.
I understand about the additional electrical. We have already talked to an electrician. We have no slots left in our electrical panel and are going to be doing some significant remodeling. We will have to get a sub-panel at the very least no matter what. So that is an expense we will have even if we get a conventional AC and natural gas furnace.
"We are going to be replacing our HVAC system and water heater and probably will end up with a heat pump system and tankless electric water heater. "
Electric lowers your costs over NG? I'd be surprised.
Did I say that it lowers my costs? I don't believe I ever said that.
I am also surprised switching from NG to electric would be cost savings? You could put a gas fired tankless water heater and save a bunch of cost running heavy electric wiring to the tankless water heater. Since the house has A/C already the change to a heat pump for heating is not going to require major rewiring. However heat pump house heating require a backup system, called emergency heat, that is either going to be NG or giant electric resistance heat coils. So it might be a lot less cost to keep NG as the backup heat system for the house. Typically backup is used when temps get below the crossover temp when heat pump loses efficiency and ability to make nice warmer heat. New heat pumps can work good down to 20F, but the air coming out the vents can be only slightly above the room set temp. Good heat pump can make a 60F difference from the outside, so 20F means 80F heat out of the vents.
If OP is determined to go electric, there are also heat pump pool heaters that are quite efficient. That is a way to completely eliminate all NG needs for the house and pool.
I never said anything about cost.... I am sure I will do the heat pump. We don't often get down to 20 here. I am sure that is why the vast majority of new systems here are heat pumps. I am still not sure if I will get a gas tankless or electric tankless system. I want tankless because with the remodeling we are doing we don't have room for a large tank. I would consider a gas tankless system IF I can't get sufficient hot water from an electric tankless. But we fit within the group that usually can -- 2 people without high hot water usage. It is possible that I could change my mind in which case the pool heater question is a moot point.
Living in Texas (near Houston) I like natural gas for heating, cooking and hot water. Converting to electric will be costly and when the next hurricane or big storm takes out the power, you won't have hot water, your stove, or house heat.
In most instances even if you have gas you lose those things when your power goes out. Modern gas furnaces usually use electricity for electric ignition.