Generosity question

[tmitchell]

Hi all

I'm wondering how some of you have handled the question of generosity as you've become wealthier. I've spent so many years optimizing and economizing, but now I have "enough" and I'm starting to wonder about how to handle some of the excess.

I seem to be getting more requests from family to, for instance, "use some of my extra airline miles" so that they can take a trip. Part of me wants to hang onto the extra since I "earned" them, but then I think about how much more wealth I've amassed than they have and feel like I'm being greedy to not be a bit more generous. I'm not sure if this is a slippery slope or what. I do wonder about "self sufficiency" and whether being extra generous is an enabling factor or what.

Similarly, when I think about the wealth I may indeed leave behind when I'm dead, I've started to wonder about the question of charity who who/what/where to deploy some of the excess beyond my loved ones.

Anyway these are new contemplations for me since I've crossed the "enough" bridge, and I'm very curious to hear how you've handled these types of questions. Do you have rules of thumb or just take it case by case?

Thank you!

 

[joeea]

I seem to be getting more requests from family to, for instance, "use some of my extra airline miles" so that they can take a trip. Part of me wants to hang onto the extra since I "earned" them, but then I think about how much more wealth I've amassed than they have and feel like I'm being greedy to not be a bit more generous.

We each get to decide how hard to hang on to what we have "earned" and how much we want to give to those we care about.

It's not clear what "extra" airline miles means. Either you can use them, or you can't. If you can use them before they expire, then they aren't extra.

I'm not sure if this is a slippery slope or what. I do wonder about "self sufficiency" and whether being extra generous is an enabling factor or what.

I think it's generally a mistake to think you can teach someone to become self-sufficient by denying them gifts. You can be generous, or don't be generous - they will be whatever they will be.

Do you have rules of thumb or just take it case by case?

I feel like most of life is best dealt with on a "case by case" basis.
If it feels right to me, I do it.

Sometimes it matches up with my history of actions (which could be interpreted as "rules of thumb"). Sometimes not. I don't care either way.

 

[SecondCor521]

Your second paragraph sounds like a little bit of an unhealthy family dynamic to me.

My generosity rules of thumb and practices:

1. I'm cautious. I'm ahead of where I planned to be, so I am ratcheting things up on both the spending and giving side. But I'm going slowly and there is a bit of a time lag between the increasing wealth and the charitable giving.

2. I'm focusing on my three kids first and everyone else second. This is personal preference and there are arguments on both sides.

3. I like the idea of charitable giving out of current spendable income. So my general approach would be to say that I can spend 4% of my net worth every year, and of that 4% maybe I spend 80% of it and give 20% of it away. Rather than large bequests in my will or sporadic giving.

4. I focus my charitable giving in several ways. First, I focus on charities that meet kids' basic needs (water, medical care, food, shelter). Second, I focus on charities that address root causes. Third, I focus on charities that are efficient with their funds.

My personal policy is that I never give in response to a solicitation either by phone or by mail. They just rub me the wrong way.

 

[gwraigty]

I seem to be getting more requests from family to, for instance, "use some of my extra airline miles" so that they can take a trip.

Unless these are household members, why does your family know about your extra airline miles in the first place?

 

[W2R]

I seem to be getting more requests from family to, for instance, "use some of my extra airline miles" so that they can take a trip. Part of me wants to hang onto the extra since I "earned" them, but then I think about how much more wealth I've amassed than they have and feel like I'm being greedy to not be a bit more generous. […] Anyway these are new contemplations for me since I've crossed the "enough" bridge, and I'm very curious to hear how you've handled these types of questions. Do you have rules of thumb or just take it case by case?

We don't do this in my family. My family puts a very high value on individual independence and initiative, and nobody asks other family members for money or valuables. Likewise, I would never have dreamed of asking a relative for money or valuables. Any gifts to relatives are initiated by the giver, in my family.

So anyway, in my case "these types of questions" never, ever come up.

 

[travelover]

My step daughter asked me for a loan and I refused. She guilted her mom into loaning her money and then never paid it back. So, my advice is give if you initiate it, but don't agree to requests be they gifts or loans.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

I agree that asking seems weird, and that I also as a rule don't give anything in response to a request, but make our decisions about charitable giving after much research.

I actually started keeping a spreadsheet for our charitable donations a few years ago, and gave us a "budget" after I noticed that we gave less one year than the year before when I went to document it for our taxes. This way it stays the same or grows slightly every year, as long as our financial situation does the same.

I know you asked about giving to family members, but it still applies, as if you really WANT to give generously to family members, budget a certain amount for giving to family/friends, and rough out a spreadsheet. It's not etched in stone -- I do find myself giving to causes that I hadn't planned on, and so I'll either find more money or shift around the numbers a bit. You can do the same, and then you can spread it out better and also feel better saying no. Miles do have a cash or exchange value, I hear (I don't use them myself, I prefer cash back), so use that as part of your budget if you feel like it. Or don't, it's your money!

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

My step daughter asked me for a loan and I refused. She guilted her mom into loaning her money and then never paid it back. So, my advice is give if you initiate it, but don't agree to requests be they gifts or loans.

Some good rules I've heard before are either don't lend anything that you can't comfortably spare, or just don't lend anything -- if you can afford it, give it as a gift, and ask them to pay it forward instead of paying it back.

I once agreed to buy something from a very old friend who was very hard up for cash, and then she never gave me what I paid for. I ended the friendship not because of the money, which we can easily spare, but because of the deception and lies and manipulation.

 

[Aerides]

Agree with the discomfort here.

Being generous is one thing; being asked to share by family members is entirely another. Generosity implies giving, freely. Not being asked to, or guilted into it in any way. What you describe would really rub me the wrong way.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

Some parts of your post that I forgot to address:

I seem to be getting more requests from family to, for instance, "use some of my extra airline miles" so that they can take a trip. Part of me wants to hang onto the extra since I "earned" them, but then I think about how much more wealth I've amassed than they have and feel like I'm being greedy to not be a bit more generous. I'm not sure if this is a slippery slope or what. I do wonder about "self sufficiency" and whether being extra generous is an enabling factor or what. (emphasis mine)

Would you normally buy them the tickets? That's basically what they're asking you to do. The fact that you have miles does not make the tickets any less valuable. If you want to pay for a trip for less fortunate family, then do it! Maybe even keep your miles so you can splurge on yourself when you feel like it. (It also might shame them a bit for asking, but people who ask for things from others baldly like that are generally incapable of shame.)

Similarly, when I think about the wealth I may indeed leave behind when I'm dead, I've started to wonder about the question of charity who who/what/where to deploy some of the excess beyond my loved ones.

Anyway these are new contemplations for me since I've crossed the "enough" bridge, and I'm very curious to hear how you've handled these types of questions. Do you have rules of thumb or just take it case by case?

This is the part that made me think about my spreadsheet. Except not just for a year, you might want to make one for your remaining assets. Most people just use a percentage, so it can vary, but then you can still make sure it adds up to 100%, and see how if you want to add a bequest you'll have to take away a little from somewhere else. This is very helpful in visualizing and therefore setting priorities for me.

 

[Chuckanut]

I agree. Giving because you want to is one thing. Being asked because you have more is another. I guess the real question is "Why do you have more?"

Big spenders love to compare their fincancial problems to the riches that the LBYM folks have acquired over time. But, they only look at today's snapshot. They don't look at the movie of the past 5, 10 or 20 years to see all of the 'goodies' they enjoyed while the LBYM folks were denying themselves many good things. That's not very fair. Often these people are crazy makers who will try to heap guilt on others so as to shift their responsibilities to others, and cover up their own irresponsible behavior.

OTOH, if somebody fell upon hard times due to a recession, illness, criminal behavior of others, etc. then showing compassion and helping is the right thing to do, IMHO. One has to view the movie.

 

[audreyh1]

I would never be asked for “extra miles”. It turns out not to be economical to transfer them although you can buy someone else a ticket with your miles.

We gift to family members (siblings) regularly, and it’s been part of our budget. They would be our heirs anyway. We prefer to gift while we are alive. We also have donated a lot to a a donor advised fund and give regular contributions out of that.

 

[jollystomper]

To the OP - when family member have that attitude of "because we think you have a lot, you need to be generous to us", it is time to run screaming for the hills.

As with W2R's family my parents raised me and my siblings to be independent and to not depend the "generosity" of others. Their attitude was "if you want something extra, get a better job. Or get a second job."

On the other hand, DW and I had a lot of battles with her side of the family who felt that, because they perceived us as doing better, it was our responsibility to help them live above their means. In the last few years a couple of their siblings have apologized to us for that.

We give generously for life accomplishments. Graduating from high school, from college, the first graduate degree, getting married. etc. - for those we give way above the average. If any family member is involved in a charitable activity, we will give generously to that activity.

Certainly if there was a dire need we would consider it. But from what you relate, it sounds more like the requests are more for "living large" activities... which, if you give into them, will easily breed dependency and expectations that can get out of hand (as my MIL is now experiencing).

 

[Teacher Terry]

My family is like WR2’s. We have given to our kids in time of need. My husband loaned a family 1k when they were in dire need. 2 years later they invited us over for a steak dinner. Then we find out they won 50k and had no intention of paying us back. We never spoke to them again.

 

[UnrealizedPotential]

I don't think this is an easy question. I take it case by case. I have never had much of a blanket rule to use when it comes to giving money. What I have learned is a loan usually turns into a gift. If I still want to lend/ give money to someone than that certainly makes me look at it differently, but that by itself doesn't mean I wouldn't do it.



It just depends on who the money is for, what is if for, and can I afford to not get it back if it comes to that.

 

[Souschef]

My late mom had a philosophy that if you gift while alive rather than an inheritance, you at least get the gratitude of the donee.
I am following that philosophy with our 4 children. They get a very generous gift on their birthdays.
I have one son who is very independent, but because of a divorce he is not able to have the down payment on a house. I told him I have an asset that is earmarked for both my sons. I will give him his share now and change the beneficiary totally to the other son. I also asked him not to mention it to anyone.

 

[ER Eddie]

I seem to be getting more requests from family to, for instance, "use some of my extra airline miles" so that they can take a trip. Part of me wants to hang onto the extra since I "earned" them, but then I think about how much more wealth I've amassed than they have and feel like I'm being greedy to not be a bit more generous. I'm not sure if this is a slippery slope or what. I do wonder about "self sufficiency" and whether being extra generous is an enabling factor or what.

Similarly, when I think about the wealth I may indeed leave behind when I'm dead, I've started to wonder about the question of charity who who/what/where to deploy some of the excess beyond my loved ones.

Anyway these are new contemplations for me since I've crossed the "enough" bridge, and I'm very curious to hear how you've handled these types of questions. Do you have rules of thumb or just take it case by case?

I do have one rule of thumb, and that's never to give if you are going to resent it in any way, or if you feel taken advantage of somehow. If I ever feel as if I'm being "guilted" into something, for instance, I will resist. Assuming that's not true, then I think it depends on the details of the individual case.

I'm wrestling with that second bit -- the question of where to leave my money when I die. I'll give half to family, but the other half I want to give to charity, because I think the money will go to better use there. I'm in the process of selecting charities. It's not a simple task. I imagine I'll change my mind repeatedly.

 

[pb4uski]

Back when I was traveling a lot and had a lot of airline miles DW guilted me into using miles for a ticket for DW's sister to visit their mother (my MIL) who was ill. I agreed to it and am over it but didn't like it at the time... principally because SIL lived in a nicer house than we did, traveled a fair bit, etc and I felt that she could well afford to pay her own way. Luckily, by raising a small stink it set the stage so I haven't been asked again.

I made it on my own without borrowing from family... so they can too.

That said, as it becomes more apparent that we have plenty, we are becoming more generous with DD and DS.

 

[RobbieB]

I enjoy helping my family financially.

 

[marko]

Growing up "gift" was a four letter word in my family, especially to my wealthy grandfather. Even at Christmas, gifts from him were meager.

DW was brought up differently and we've shoveled truckloads of money to her sister and her kids. Thirty years later we have a bunch of young adults who are still expecting handout after handout.

 

[athena53]

We don't do this in my family. My family puts a very high value on individual independence and initiative, and nobody asks other family members for money or valuables. Likewise, I would never have dreamed of asking a relative for money or valuables. Any gifts to relatives are initiated by the giver, in my family.

That's my family culture. Widowed father and siblings all doing fine on their own. DS and DDIL are in their early 30s, raising 2 little girls on DS' income and they want a third kid. They don't ask for anything but occasionally I offer and they accept- e,g, when they flew to Myrtle Beach a couple of years ago (my parents lived there) with their first baby I paid for one ticket. (I'd offered to pay for it so the baby could have her own seat but they asked if they could keep her on their laps and just buy a second ticket! OK.) When DH was dying, I initiated a conversation about giving some money to his brother and to DH's son (my stepson). The will left it all to me but I wanted to do something for them and we agreed on a plan which I'm carrying out. (Gave DSS DH's small IRA; have just made the 21st of 24 promised payments to BIL.)

Charities- The church pledge is my major one. I pledge smaller amounts every year to the local domestic violence shelter. I budget a fixed amount of money each month for charity, which I keep in the checking account but track in a spreadsheet. That gives me a fund I can use for whatever moves me- maybe sponsoring someone's athletic event for a charity, a GoFundMe for someone I know, my old HS, etc. I try to concentrate my major charitable donations to only one or two organizations rather than $25 here, $15 there. They probably send more than that sending me mailings after that to get more money.

 

[Walt34]

We don't do this in my family. My family puts a very high value on individual independence and initiative, and nobody asks other family members for money or valuables. Likewise, I would never have dreamed of asking a relative for money or valuables. Any gifts to relatives are initiated by the giver, in my family.

That's the way it works in my family too. Except in the most dire circumstances (and I can't imagine what those might be) I would never think of asking any family for a loan or gift.

 

[Breedlove]

We are going through this discussion at this time . My two brothers live in Ohio we live in Texas . I have not talked to my younger brother for 20 years because when my mother passed he thought I was going to take his house and he was going to shoot me.
Last week my nephew called me in Eu. to tell me that his dad and mother are almost broke trying to keep my younger brother . It seems my younger brother had heart surgery and the house he has been living in has been condemned
My nephew speaking for his father was asking for us to send some money . My younger brother is too young for SS , he is going blind ( diabetes ) and now heart problems . My younger brother never got married he inherited our parents house but never did any repairs . A few years ago he borrowed against the house and wasted the money . Now my family wants money . I really feel bad but I know I don't have enough money to answer all of his problems

 

[EastWest Gal]

If your younger brother qualifies for disability, he can get SSI. There is a huge backlog, but he should look into it.

 

[Katiek]

I'd be put off by a friend or relative asking for something for a "luxury" reason - such as airline miles for their vacation. My family is independent and I really can't imagine anyone asking for something, but if they needed it,I'd be happy to give it if I could. I know they wouldn't be asking unless it was something very important.