Generosity question

[pb4uski]

BL, your brother should use the lawyer and apply for SSDI. I worked in the field and it usually takes 2 years to win unless you are terminal. It takes persistence in appealing all denials. Eventually you end up before a law judge who has a vocational expert to help the judge make the decision after looking at all the reports, facts, etc. I used to be a vocational expert. It is at this stage that many people win and then they back pay you from when they first applied. So people end up with a big lump sum payment. Giving them 2k is not going to fix the problem.

TT, just curious, do lawyers generally do this on the come and get paid a percentage of that the beneficiary receives? Just wondering where the money to pay the lawyer comes from.

 

[jollystomper]

Many of us have become wealthy because of our stinginess and it’s hard to break that thought process, it’s ok to share your wealth with some people but not overboard to compromise any of the hard work you’ve accomplished, for me it’s a very fine line between being Mr Scrooge and giving

I believe many of us became wealthy from LBYM. I personally do not equate LBYM with stinginess. You can be LBYM and still be generous. However others can see "LBYM" as "stingy" because their thought process is more "wow, if I had that(perceived) money I would be spending it on all sorts of things that you aren't!".

A SIL and then (now ex) BIL thought DW and I were "stingy" for not buying new cars, even claiming that we were putting our kids at harm for driving them in a used minivan ("Who knows what germs and diseases the people who had it before you had?").

For me the issue is not about being a scrooge, but more "give with discernment".

 

[Teacher Terry]

Pub, yes lawyers get a percentage of the amount of money the client is awarded. You can do it yourself but many people can’t stay on top of the paperwork in a timely fashion and if you miss a deadline you start all over. Some people aren’t capable of doing the paperwork correctly. If the client doesn’t get it then the lawyer doesn’t get paid.

 

[pb4uski]

Ok, that makes perfect sense.... also incentivizes the lawyer to be diligent.

 

[tmitchell]

Thanks everyone for your honest responses! Really helpful.

As I continue to think about it and also your thoughts, I'm impressed by a couple things:

1. random/anonymous acts of kindness seem to be incredibly powerful
2. giving people money to enjoy luxuries probably has little lasting effect beyond a special treat, whereas helping those in desperate situations can at least provide some relief & support
3. creating a budget for charitable contributions is a great hack!

Thank you again for your thoughts. I look forward to any others who are inclined to share!

 

[marko]

BL, your brother should use the lawyer and apply for SSDI. I worked in the field and it usually takes 2 years to win unless you are terminal. It takes persistence in appealing all denials. Eventually you end up before a law judge who has a vocational expert to help the judge make the decision after looking at all the reports, facts, etc.

Get a lawyer who does this.

FWIW, my brother became disabled two years ago.

His long-term disability payment company (Voya) put me in contact with a local attorney.

I filled out 8 pages of information and sent it back to him.

It took about 2 months and my brother's SSDI was approved. No mess, no fuss.

I originally took a DIY approach and SS told me it would take 2 years. The lawyer was worth the $1200 (paid by Voya) to get it done.

 

[Music Lover]

DH's family has a culture of borrowing from "the bank of Dad", but those are documented loans for big things, like businesses and homes, that are paid back monthly with interest. The nice thing about that is nobody is going to ask us for money when there's somebody around who has a lot more than we do.

In my family, I have one sib whose daughter is trying to make the 2020 or 2024 U.S. Olympic team in a sport that doesn't get much national funding or sponsorship. At the moment, I'm ignoring the Facebook appeals to donate to her GoFundMe page and I notice that my other immediate family members are too. I haven't decided what to do long term on this one.

I'd probably consider Olympic funding a lot more worthy than a lot of other requests...if she's capable enough that it's a realistic goal then it can be something that she can cherish for the rest of her life. But, if her parents are well off and able to afford it then it's on them.

 

[Golden sunsets]

Regarding charity, we budget a certain amount per year and bump this amount up each year. A certain amount goes to our religious house of worship and the remainder is divided into two buckets that we each get to spend during he year. I keep track on a spreadsheet, nerd that I am. DH and I have some joint recipients but in other cases, my charities are different than his. Most of the giving occurs at the end of the year in a flurry of activity after we have each identified how to allocate our remaining balances. The majority we gift to year after year, with the occasional one off. The recipients range from organizations that fund health related research, food banks and homeless shelters, public broadcasting, international relief organizations, childrens assistance groups, armed service disability organizations, local environmental groups, local charities and a local ASPCA org. I use charity navigator before gifting to a new org.




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[marko]

One thing I've come to realize about 'helping' others financially is that not everyone wants the same thing out of life.

There are those who might be embarrassed to take a handout but would be so appreciative.
Then there are those who are almost like con-men who have no qualms about taking your money, blowing it and then asking for more.

DW's sister's kids have been on the receiving end of our 'assistance' for almost 30 years and all we've done is create our own personal 'leisure class' who's main exertion is getting up to the mailbox to see if we've sent another check.

For the longest while we couldn't understand why they wouldn't take our help and try to make their life better. We slowly realized that what they wanted from life was quite different from what we wanted them to have; they're quite happy with the bills not being paid, the house being a mess and a car that only works when it feels like it.
What they want is HBO and the pizza guy on speed dial.

It's been a slow, painful and expensive process but DW is finally starting to come around.

 

[Mdlerth]

I keep learning new things here

For the longest while we couldn't understand why they wouldn't take our help and try to make their life better. We slowly realized that what they wanted from life was quite different from what we wanted them to have

This is a brilliant insight. I see the same thing in some of my family.

 

[marko]

This is a brilliant insight. I see the same thing in some of my family.

Thanks. Only took us 30 years and a quarter of a mil to figure it out!

 

[Martha]

I see some are fine with giving gifts but don't want to be asked for money. As a different take on this, I have family members with very, very little. They work hard, but make very little money. As a result one did not fill prescriptions or go to the dentist. She had a heart attack. There was a good chance the failure to take medications and take care of her teeth were contributing factors. I told her, please ask. If you can't afford to buy meds or go to the dentist, ask me. I went to other family members and made sure everyone had at least enough to take care of themselves. I've also moved to regular gifting. The shame here is on me for not doing this sooner. I have advantages they do not have; my personal feeling is that with privilege comes duty. But, I am lucky to know that my family members do the best they can with what they have.

 

[oldphd]

If you can't afford to buy meds or go to the dentist, ask me.

This assumes a level of honesty/morality. Not trying to mock you in any way. I have a family member who didn't have regular dental care and lost several teeth at the age of late 50s, presumably on a continuing decline. But was given money for a specific purpose (not the dental care) and didn't do it (it was diverted because "it was needed" - the gift giver doesn't know, I do). Always has money to buy beer, cigarettes, and dine at fancy restaurants. My expectation is that there will be health decline at some point, and I don't know that I will feel any obligation to assist financially.

 

[travelover]

I see some are fine with giving gifts but don't want to be asked for money........... .

Speaking for myself, the issue is asking for money for luxuries, not medical necessities.

 

[Souschef]

I consider us fortunate in that my sister,nieces and sons are doing OK. I have one cousin who IMO was put on earth to be a bad example.
They blew through over $1 Mil in inheritances, and now can never retire.. I will not ever lift a finger to help them.

 

[Midpack]

Agree with the discomfort here.

Being generous is one thing; being asked to share by family members is entirely another. Generosity implies giving, freely. Not being asked to, or guilted into it in any way. What you describe would really rub me the wrong way.

+1. I’d give to our chosen charities long before granting a loan request from family. But we’re cautious because we have 30-40 years of retirement ahead and it’s impossible to know how our nest egg will hold up. If history repeats odds are we’ll have an excess, “if.” Regrettably most of our charitable giving will have to come later.

 

[marko]

Speaking for myself, the issue is asking for money for luxuries, not medical necessities.

In our personal case, it's evolved into covering for the necessities (food, appliances, utilities, clothing, car insurance/repairs) so that they can use their limited funds on luxuries (HBO, $900 iPhones, tablets and tattoos). Talk about having it upside down!

 

[lucky penny]

Speaking for myself, the issue is asking for money for luxuries, not medical necessities.

For me, it's a relative with low income and no savings because of a combination of bad luck and bad decisions. And who likes to say "money has never been important to me."

 

[brett]

We completely changed our giving. Not only in terms of amounts but also in terms of the recipients.

We have consolidated our giving. We give substantially less to my spouses large church and substantially more to our local food bank. We also pay attention to a publication that lists the effectiveness of charitable organizations in terms of how much is spent on fundraising, admin, etc. vs. what percentage of monies actually get to where they are supposed to go.

So, not only consolidation but also a substantial increase in giving.

Basically we want our money to work as hard and as effectively in charitable organizations as we expect it to work in our personal lives. We anticipate that our giving will keep increasing at he same or a faster rate than the increase in our resources.

 

[healthyandfun]

I have worked hard and lived a frugal lifestyle my entire life. . .and been fortunate to do a number of things right and not too many things wrong. My family lives far away and they have no idea of my net worth. They may have some inkling because I have taken some awesome trips, but I have never shared any numbers. No one has asked for money, but I have been generous mainly for graduations, weddings, showers.

In my travels, I have made it a habit to leave money on a daily basis for housekeeping at hotels. I figure those extra dollars will make an impact in the workers lives. When I frequent restaurants and have excellent service, I bump up the tip to 30%. I do this in my hometown especially when I visit family run restaurants. I know a gentleman who drives a taxi and can reserve a date and time with him a week ahead of time. I tip him well. These are small amounts for me, but can impact low wage earners.

As far as gift giving to others, I like to receive some acknowledgement or thanks for the gift. I was an educator and frequently gift books and supplies to individual teachers. One sent photos of the students with their books, another had the children hand write thank you notes, and others send an email note. If I do not receive any acknowledgement, I move on and find a new recipient.

I put a great deal of thought into how to structure my will since I am single. None of my relatives are in dire need of funds. I do have one brother and SIL who Tend to be a bit greedy and jealous at times even though they retired at 50 and have a great life. I feel no obligation to leave them or my other relatives any money. If there is anything left after I die, it will go to a foundation to be distributed to teachers for classroom projects and some will go to scholarships for students in my home county. Making those decisions took a great deal of thought and time.

I have enjoyed this thread and learning how others have handled this situation.

 

[lucky penny]

I have worked hard and lived a frugal lifestyle my entire life. . .and been fortunate to do a number of things right and not too many things wrong. My family lives far away and they have no idea of my net worth. They may have some inkling because I have taken some awesome trips, but I have never shared any numbers. No one has asked for money, but I have been generous mainly for graduations, weddings, showers.

In my travels, I have made it a habit to leave money on a daily basis for housekeeping at hotels. I figure those extra dollars will make an impact in the workers lives. When I frequent restaurants and have excellent service, I bump up the tip to 30%. I do this in my hometown especially when I visit family run restaurants. I know a gentleman who drives a taxi and can reserve a date and time with him a week ahead of time. I tip him well. These are small amounts for me, but can impact low wage earners.

As far as gift giving to others, I like to receive some acknowledgement or thanks for the gift. I was an educator and frequently gift books and supplies to individual teachers. One sent photos of the students with their books, another had the children hand write thank you notes, and others send an email note. If I do not receive any acknowledgement, I move on and find a new recipient.

I put a great deal of thought into how to structure my will since I am single. None of my relatives are in dire need of funds. I do have one brother and SIL who Tend to be a bit greedy and jealous at times even though they retired at 50 and have a great life. I feel no obligation to leave them or my other relatives any money. If there is anything left after I die, it will go to a foundation to be distributed to teachers for classroom projects and some will go to scholarships for students in my home county. Making those decisions took a great deal of thought and time.

I have enjoyed this thread and learning how others have handled this situation.

This is a great post. Thanks!

 

[LitGal]

Thanks everyone for your honest responses! Really helpful.

As I continue to think about it and also your thoughts, I'm impressed by a couple things:

1. random/anonymous acts of kindness seem to be incredibly powerful
2. giving people money to enjoy luxuries probably has little lasting effect beyond a special treat, whereas helping those in desperate situations can at least provide some relief & support
3. creating a budget for charitable contributions is a great hack!

Thank you again for your thoughts. I look forward to any others who are inclined to share!

+1 Yes, this has been very helpful. Since I remarried last Nov., my new DH and I realize we have very different perspectives on this. I am financially independent due to the LBYM of myself and DH #1 for over 35 years. DH#2 is financially independent due to serving in the Army and N. Guard for 38 years, serving his county in a police cruiser for 18, farming throughout many of those years, and now---since Army retirement in '04-- serving as a pastor. (Yes, I married a 71-year-old Energizer Rabbit.) He gives his salary back to the church, as we easily live on our retirement incomes. Plus, he is very generous with family and many people in need. (And there are quite a few needy folk in our area of WV.)

He is gracious and kind......but we have long discussions about "helping people learn to fish instead of always giving them fish."

We are making progress.......I just sometimes feel a bit "hard-hearted."

 

[brett]

I do not mind helping a relative who may have an issue beyond his or her control.

We won't however throw good money after bad. I have a retirement age SIL who will soon be in deep financial trouble. No doubt she will loose her home. But, she has been there before and will be there again. Any assistance from us would be tantamount to wiping the slate clean so she could start her reckless spending habits again.

Emotion can blur common sense. We have a friend who is diminishing her retirement resources by a ner do well son who bullies her emotionally and verbally. He will not stop until she no longer has any resources. Unfortunately she appears unwilling to face this truth. Sad to see this happen.