Getting an elderly parent to give up living alone

[latexman]

Good idea but probably not feasible. You’d have to move ALL of your furniture and bed etc in for just one week or so stay. That’s a tremendous amount of work. Most places do not provide these things.

My FIL's CRCC has a few apartments for rent by visitors. He has had his son's family, brother's family, and friends stay there for a visit over a few days. They are furnished, so kinda like an onsite hotel. If that can be booked for a few weeks, by a prospective customer, that'd work. I just don't know if they do that or not. I'll ask FIL next weekend when I visit.

 

[ivinsfan]

Well OP your MIL has a plan, which her children don't like.It's her life so it should be her plan. Have you asked Mom what she thinks about one of her kids being around 24/7 ?



I might suggest that for the next few months one of her kids comes in once a month and stays for a few days, maybe a long weekend or even a week. Just be with Mom and observe her in place. Talk with her one on one about what services might be available in her home and outside her home. Tell her with no agenda that you love her and are torn between following her wishes and worrying she needs help and isn't safe. Let her think about it for awhile. You are good children to be willing to give up your home life for 1 month out of 4 , so I think you can come to a decision that you all and Mom feel comfortable with. Remember it's OK for your Mom to have ideas about how she will live the rest of her life, she has earned that and you all need to respect it.

 

[jollystomper]

My wife and her sister are in a similar situation. My mother-in-law has a stroke last year, and while her mind remains sharp, her physical abilities are deteriorating where she know cannot get around without a walker and has other physical limitations.

One challenge is that their mother is very strong willed - I would say almost a bully to her kids. She wants to be in control. I cannot see her agreeing to move out - it is a very nice house in a nice area. There is also a cultural issue, in the culture they were raised you do not put old people out of their homes, you move in with them to take care of them. What she really wants is for one of her 3 surviving children to move in with her. One of her sons did live with her reluctantly, but he died suddenly about 3 years ago. What she has done instead is have people move into the home with her or get visiting nurse assistance. The big problem is that she expects them to be both her maid and her friend based on what she needs at the times, so they never hang around for long.

Another challenge is that DW's family is the type, when a crisis hits, to spend an exhausting amount of time pointing fingers instead of figuring out a solution. And folks will be in it for themselves. If MIL does have to move out. Within a day her leaving there will be family descending on the home to lay claim to its contents, and it will be a free-for-all. I'm just advising my wife to,as much as possible, keep out of the fray.

 

[HarveyS]

[in fact it's a terribly uninformed suggestion] .

+100


And it makes it difficult to keep the same doctors.

 

[Aerides]

Many elderly folks around here have caregivers. Basically a full time nurse who spends at least 8 hours a day with them (I'm sure some have shifts with round-the-clock care). It's very common to see the caregiver helping them shop for groceries, or attending a medical appointment. Even out to dinner/lunch.

Not cheap, but it's really the only way to reasonably stay at home if someone won't move.

 

[wearefinishedworking]

Wow, reading all this is giving me anxiety. My 85 year old Mother is alone in her home and is the most stubborn person on the planet. Me, my brother and sister all live about a 40 minute drive away and each have children and grand-children.

Twice she has fallen, once burned up a pot really badly, is increasingly forgetful, but says "I am fine!". It is a disaster waiting to happen. BUT, the 3 of us agree that these are choices she is making and thankfully, when a life-changing event happens, she has all the monies to move into a wonderful assisted living or even hire round the clock help.

No way we would agree to living a month with her. One of us contacts her daily to check in and we visit weekly. Very hard to watch and yet I am saying the same thing..."I will never go into a home!".

 

[marko]

Part 1: My brother is disabled and 'needs a little help but not a lot of help'. He lives alone in his own home. I see him each morning for coffee/breakfast/doctor/therapy...whatever he needs that day and then a caregiver comes in the evening to cook his meals and watch an hour of TV with him. Another hired caregiver comes and helps him shower each day and a third comes for housecleaning once a week. It's working.

Part 2: My mom and I were very close and I loved her dearly. She passed at age 92 two years ago. I'd take her to our place in Florida each winter and spend a month or so with her.
As close as we were, after about two weeks, I was ready to strangle her (figuratively). It just didn't work out at all and we'd end up arguing all the time. I'd have to leave her alone there for a few days just to recover my sanity. Nothing in particular, but just two different (strong willed) people of different ages trying to live together. We just got on each other's nerves very quickly.

I hope your plan works but while our situation 'worked', it really didn't and was a challenge.

 

[Sunset]

The one month at a time, seems very difficult to do for even a year.

I'd certainly start by putting some eufy camera's ($35 ea, no subscription, each takes sd card) in the house, don't need to be in every room, so privacy is still available.
Having one in kitchen, living-room, dining room, garage, etc and not in bathroom or bedroom, still allows you to see the person walk around each day, and can look in live action. Can talk over the camera and hear.
Alerts can be set so know person is up each day (or up in middle of night wandering the house).
Finally the camera access can be shared by all siblings, so everyone gets information.

Obviously best if a move to long term supervised housing would work, trial visits are done by some places.

 

[Jerry1]

I tried to get my dad to move out of his house without success. He ended up falling a couple times and still no movement. Finally, for unknown reasons, he walked out of the house and got a little way down the street, fell, hurt himself badly and was gone in a week. It's sad but I tell myself that's what he wanted. He was suffering from dementia but with help from his wife, was able to live out his live in the home. And, at 93, and never being totally incapacitated except for his last week, I can't say the outcome was all that bad. Much better than languishing in a nursing home for months or longer.

Now, I'm faced with his wife living in the home. She's already fallen once and broke her wrist. The house is owned by the trust but Dad said she could live in the house until she passes or moves out on her own accord. I didn't want my dad to live there even with her help and I sure don't think it's a good place for an 89 yo single person to live. Unfortunately, I don't think the odds are good that I will be able to convince her to move out, no matter how practical that would be.

The main thing I take away from this and discuss with DW is that we need to have a plan for ourselves and make that known to our kids. "I'm going to stay in my home" is not a plan. We're either going to downsize or pay for help as we age. Our current house is a ranch on a slab, so no stairs, that I think can carry us pretty far into retirement. The main thing I'm going to have to outsource is the yard (one acre) work. Still, that should be less than HOA fees at a condo. Again, the main thing is to convince ourselves to plan and stick with the plan. I totally get that at 90 (God willing), I'm not going to be volunteering to go anywhere.

 

[LateToFIRE]

^^^
For those of you dealing with a stubborn, failing parent, please consider that they are not only a danger to themselves, but also to others (ex. starts fire in home, drives car with impaired abilities, constant need for emergency services, etc.). Which is why simply letting them have their way and letting them be may not be the best answer. I won't recount the tragedies I've seen but you have to keep actively pushing them towards a solution for their sake, your conscience's sake, and their community's sake.

 

[Jerry1]

^^^
For those of you dealing with a stubborn, failing parent, please consider that they are not only a danger to themselves, but also to others (ex. starts fire in home, drives car with impaired abilities, constant need for emergency services, etc.). Which is why simply letting them have their way and letting them be may not be the best answer. I won't recount the tragedies I've seen but you have to keep actively pushing them towards a solution for their sake, your conscience's sake, and their community's sake.

Short of picking them up and physically extracting them from the house, I'm not sure what else I could have done. Personally, I was surprised that after two hospital visits for my dad from falling, that no type of social services stepped in. I was kind of hoping for that. To live in their house, my dad should have had a major refurbish to make it more safe. I wish social services would have came by and helped with the pressure to make that happen.

 

[marko]

I'd certainly start by putting some eufy camera's ($35 ea, no subscription, each takes sd card) in the house, don't need to be in every room, so privacy is still available.
Having one in kitchen, living-room, dining room, garage, etc and not in bathroom or bedroom, still allows you to see the person walk around each day, and can look in live action. Can talk over the camera and hear.
Alerts can be set so know person is up each day (or up in middle of night wandering the house).
Finally the camera access can be shared by all siblings, so everyone gets information.

+1. I have this for my brother, including one viewing his outside deck. That one saved his life a few years ago as he had gone out to get his newspaper in the middle of a blizzard, slipped and was laying in a snowbank.

 

[Spock]

Dear old Dad started having major falls (one was a skull fracture), responding to scams (had somebody drive him to a bank to withdraw all his $ and give it to some guy waiting in the parking lot for safe keeping), etc. etc. Wasn't taking his meds. Home was filthy. One time I got there and the gas stove burner as on but not lit so the place reeked of natgas (his trailer park didn't have enough electrical service and wouldn't allow an electric stove).
Doctors and hospital social workers were no help: "he's still making decisions, they are just bad decisions". Neurologist diagnosed Dementia w/ probable Alzheimer's resulting in loss of executive functions (decision making, critical thinking)
He hired his own home health aide, who was on the state Adult Protective Services registry for stealing from another client. She was in the process of having him move in with her instead of going to Assisted Living and to give her the house.

We ended up having to file an emergency petition with the court for conservator and guardianship in March 2020. As we were still completing that process, he fell again and broke his hip. With the guardianship I was able to have him discharged to an assisted living facility vs. "home". I had to get a court order to move his belongings from his trailer to the AL facility.

Four years later he's still furious. Since I filed the court paper work I have been disowned. It's about the only thing he reliably remembers.
But. He's being "fed and watered". He gets his meds on time. His laundry is done, his hearing aids get maintained, and he has supervision for showers and falls.

Every situation is different. But at some point letting a dementia patient make their own decisions is actually neglect.

 

[calmloki]

My gal's mom wanted to die in her own home. Gal flew from Oregon down to SoCal for two week on/two off stays over a couple years. It changed the nature of our relationship, but MIL was a great lady, gal loved her, and her mom had spent a lot of years caring for her, so turn about?... Had in home care for MIL 16 hours a day while gal was up north with me.

We were in the middle of buying a home down here to make life easier for us when she finally died with my gal at her side. Kept the home and we became snow birds. We all leave, MIL's departure was about the best imaginable, both gal and I feel fortunate about the way it worked out.

 

[38Chevy454]

Sort of related. DW and I have a widow friend that is mid 70s. Her husband had an illness that got progressively worse until he died at home with her care. She then went into a depression/confusion that we believe was caused by medicine side effects. She was in a townhouse all by herself, having delusionary seeing things and feeling things that did not exist. Even thinking her husband was telling her things. Wouldn't get up in mornings or get dressed, not eating well, etc.

Long story short, after approx 1 year from husband's death, her daughter was visiting and they went to a senior living place. She ended up moving in, and has has absolutely thrived and made complete change. Stopped many of the meds, has made many new friends. It is the best thing that could have happened. She loves it there. It's a place where it is not a CCRC. If she gets to point needing more care she will need to move out to an assisted living type place. Her current place you need to be healthy and generally self-sufficient to move in. All encompassing monthly fee includes meals in a common area and all activities; along with utilities and the apt rent of course.

 

[pacergal]

Well OP your MIL has a plan, which her children don't like.It's her life so it should be her plan. Have you asked Mom what she thinks about one of her kids being around 24/7 ?



I might suggest that for the next few months one of her kids comes in once a month and stays for a few days, maybe a long weekend or even a week. Just be with Mom and observe her in place. Talk with her one on one about what services might be available in her home and outside her home. Tell her with no agenda that you love her and are torn between following her wishes and worrying she needs help and isn't safe. Let her think about it for awhile. You are good children to be willing to give up your home life for 1 month out of 4 , so I think you can come to a decision that you all and Mom feel comfortable with. Remember it's OK for your Mom to have ideas about how she will live the rest of her life, she has earned that and you all need to respect it.

Good ideas


My paternal grandmother lived to 100, in her own apt. until her final stroke. She had neighbors who checked in on her daily, thankfully. And my folks, then Dad and us kids, travelled to see her yearly. She was stubborn and did not want any other type of help/care. Luckily, she was sharp as a tac until her stroke, she died within a few weeks in the hospital/care center (small town, was the same building)

My last living parent, Dad, was in and out of hospital/rehab/home the last few years of his life. Staying in AL was not an option, and us kids knew that. Luckily, we all lived within 40 minutes and we were able to do something like you are planning. Depending on how much care Dad needed, we each took a couple shifts weekly, either 24 hours or a few hours each day. Towards the end, as he got weaker, he had in home OT/PT, weekly nurse visits, twice weekly visits for assisted bathing.
His last rehab, he had an emergency health situation. When we met him in the ER, he was ready for hospice at home. Hospice was wonderful, set up all the equipment, etc before he was discharged.
He passed in his own home, with family.

OP--this is such a difficult situation to be in. Your moms desire needs to be first, unless she is incapable of making decisions.
What you and your siblings have planned seems good on paper, but make sure you have back up plan, in case of illness or other situations.
Best wishes to you and your family as you negotiate this.

 

[2HOTinPHX]

There are a lot of good books on the subject of caring for elderly parents that might help. We found this one to be a very good read.

When Roles Reverse: A Guide to Parenting Your Parents
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/when-roles-reverse-jim-comer/1111479001?ean=9781571745002

After his father suffered a massive stroke and his mother was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, Jim Comer found himself an overnight "parent" at the age of 51. When he walked into his father's hospital room everyone looked to him as the "man who knew all the answers." He soon realized he didn't even know the questions.
In ten years of caregiving, Comer has not only learned the questions he has lived them, and with When Roles Reverse he shares his hard-won answers.

He learned to deal with hospitals, insurance companies, rehab centers, his father's deafness and his mother's dementia. Through it all Jim has kept his sanity and sense of humor, in the process forging a deeper, more intimate relationship with his parents.

With laugh-out-loud humor, Jim deals with improvisational moments for which there is no preparation:

You find three gallons of Scotch in your dad's retirement home closet;
Your Mother refuses to leave her home of 34 years and can only be coaxed into the car with promises of ice cream;
At a crowded Sunday dinner table, your father announces that he wants you to give him an enema after lunch . . .
And offers personal experience and expert insight on the many issues it's absolutely essential to plan for such as:

Wills, powers of attorney, and other legal documents every family needs
Which siblings will be there when your parents need them?
Selecting a first-rate care facility and getting long-term care insurance
New Medicaid guidelines and how to qualify
Hospice care and end-of-life decisions
When Roles Reverse even includes "Fifty Questions that will save you Time, Money, and Tears," a special section designed to help families initiate vital communication and prepare for the crises, confusion and unexpected joys of caregiving.

 

[Jeffman52]

DW and I moved to Ohio from Georgia in 2018 to be closer and help take care of my then 87 year old FIL. We moved into a house about 10 minutes away from him and were able to help keep his place up along with inside cleaning and getting him to the grocery. Stopping in to check on him, having him over for meals or having meals with him at his place. As he aged over the next few years he started showing signs of Sundowners and mental instability and we had to take stronger measures. We installed cameras on motion detectors outside his home and regular cameras in the kitchen and living room that we could log into at any time to see what was going on. That worked well for a couple of years.



Then it got harder when at 91 years old he started having memory/time slips. He would call 911 and say no one came to pick him up to go home (but he was in his home of over 50 years). He would pack all his stuff and say someone was coming to get him. (we would see him bring his suitcases into the living room on the camera) He disabled all the wireless and cable TV because the TV was talking to him even when it was off and he showed them. He would tell us he didn't sleep because people were having a party in his kitchen all night. He would mix up his real life with stuff he watched on TV.



Eventually he was a danger to himself and others. It wasnt just calling the police or 911. It was refusing to take his meds that helped him stay stable. It was having bad falls, trying to walk places he could never make it to and having to be helped back. The last straw was when he went out one night (we were asleep and didn't catch the motion at camera text), and went for a walk with his walker down the street to go to Kroger (that is 5 miles away). We saw the stuff on the recording the camera made. He made it about a half mile before getting tired and sitting next to a telephone pole, but he had bad knees and couldn't get himself back up. Some kind gentleman noticed him and helped him get home.



He was 92 when that happened. We had so wanted to keep him in his home but we had to move him to assisted living. My wife had to take him there... he looked at her and said "I never thought you would do this to me". My wife was distraught after that and for months would just break into tears thinking about him saying that to her. He did OK there because we got to bring his own stuff (chair, TV, etc etc) and we visited often and got him out of there to go eat, and go to the park. Although that wasn't what we or he wanted for his last months, it really was the right thing to do. Anything less was a tragedy waiting to happen.


All that to say. If you have find a way to keep someone in their home safely, then that is by far the best option. But there may come a time when harder decisions have to be made. They are gut wrenching but sometimes you just have no choice.

 

[LateToFIRE]

Short of picking them up and physically extracting them from the house, I'm not sure what else I could have done. Personally, I was surprised that after two hospital visits for my dad from falling, that no type of social services stepped in. I was kind of hoping for that. To live in their house, my dad should have had a major refurbish to make it more safe. I wish social services would have came by and helped with the pressure to make that happen.

Sorry, Jerry, I wasn't trying to pick on you specifically or anyone for that matter. Trust, I have great sympathy for what you and others are going through - been there myself. Was just making the point that you have to keep at it. The laws, regulations, social services, safety-net, etc. are uniformly inadequate to address the issues that come with aging, failing seniors.

With our parent, we tried bringing in help, but she would fire them after a few days. She was supremely stubborn - did not want anybody in her house, did not want to live anywhere else, etc. Yet, she was failing physically and mentally. We gradually, gently, and sometime not so gently took over various functions and responsibilities, such as bill paying, grocery shopping, etc. We gradually culled her credit cards down to one or two we could monitor more easily. We eventually took away the keys to the car, said we just needed to borrow it while ours was in the shop (wink, wink), just never actually returned it. Finally, we introduced a live-in caregiver when she wasn't feeling well, just said it was for a few days until she got better, then a few weeks, then said the caretaker had nowhere else to go, could she stay awhile, such a nice lady, and so on and on.

I know it is excruciatingly frustrating. But, you have to keep at it, chipping away their resolve, bit by bit, until you get a break, and then be ready with solutions. I found that hiring eldercare consultants/advisors was extremely helpful, both in terms of managing live-in help and especially once we needed assistant living, and then skilled nursing facilities. There is no way you can anticipate the problems and solutions on your own unless you've done it before. And sometimes parents will listen to an outside authority figure moreso than their own adult children. This was my experience, of course YMMV. Best of luck.

 

[Wile E. Coyote]

I've seen many try but none succeed, with siblings rotating support of a parent for any length of time. (Good Luck) Usually one ends up doing most or all. That often creates other problems.

You can try to get the courts to give you and/or your siblings some control but if she is of sound mind, then "Good Luck". She may not like that either!

Maybe you can convince her to "try" an assistance living facility or at least get some "day help". "Keep gently trying"

I had a similar problems with both of my parents. Neither wanted to move somewhere else, or get any help. In the end it strained our relationships and they got their wishes. Both died at home in their mid 90's about 18mos apart. The sad part (from my POV) they had the money to move into one of the finest assisted living facilities anywhere.

I am 61 and I plan to die as your parents did. At home. Many people cannot stomach the idea of being institutionalized. Please do not be sad as their wishes were honored.

 

[LateToFIRE]

DW and I moved to Ohio from Georgia in 2018 to be closer and help take care of my then 87 year old FIL. We moved into a house about 10 minutes away from him and were able to help keep his place up along with inside cleaning and getting him to the grocery. Stopping in to check on him, having him over for meals or having meals with him at his place. As he aged over the next few years he started showing signs of Sundowners and mental instability and we had to take stronger measures. We installed cameras on motion detectors outside his home and regular cameras in the kitchen and living room that we could log into at any time to see what was going on. That worked well for a couple of years.



Then it got harder when at 91 years old he started having memory/time slips. He would call 911 and say no one came to pick him up to go home (but he was in his home of over 50 years). He would pack all his stuff and say someone was coming to get him. (we would see him bring his suitcases into the living room on the camera) He disabled all the wireless and cable TV because the TV was talking to him even when it was off and he showed them. He would tell us he didn't sleep because people were having a party in his kitchen all night. He would mix up his real life with stuff he watched on TV.



Eventually he was a danger to himself and others. It wasnt just calling the police or 911. It was refusing to take his meds that helped him stay stable. It was having bad falls, trying to walk places he could never make it to and having to be helped back. The last straw was when he went out one night (we were asleep and didn't catch the motion at camera text), and went for a walk with his walker down the street to go to Kroger (that is 5 miles away). We saw the stuff on the recording the camera made. He made it about a half mile before getting tired and sitting next to a telephone pole, but he had bad knees and couldn't get himself back up. Some kind gentleman noticed him and helped him get home.



He was 92 when that happened. We had so wanted to keep him in his home but we had to move him to assisted living. My wife had to take him there... he looked at her and said "I never thought you would do this to me". My wife was distraught after that and for months would just break into tears thinking about him saying that to her. He did OK there because we got to bring his own stuff (chair, TV, etc etc) and we visited often and got him out of there to go eat, and go to the park. Although that wasn't what we or he wanted for his last months, it really was the right thing to do. Anything less was a tragedy waiting to happen.


All that to say. If you have find a way to keep someone in their home safely, then that is by far the best option. But there may come a time when harder decisions have to be made. They are gut wrenching but sometimes you just have no choice.

OMG, you are giving me flashbacks. Have been through exactly what you are describing. Those were some of the toughest years I've ever experienced. You have my deepest sympathy.

 

[LateToFIRE]

I am 61 and I plan to die as your parents did. At home. Many people cannot stomach the idea of being institutionalized. Please do not be sad as their wishes were honored.

Just make sure your wishes are well-known with your family and that the legal provisions/protections are in place to safeguard your money, and that you have a set-up that prevents your decline from impacting others. One of the huge problems with letting parents fail on their own is that they are greatly exposed to potential fraud, even from less scrupulous family members, not to mention the potential harm they could cause to others (ex. burning house/apt down, driving well past prime, etc.). I've unfortunately witnessed everything I'm describing.

 

[Wile E. Coyote]

Just make sure your wishes are well-known with your family and that the legal provisions/protections are in place to safeguard your money, and that you have a set-up that prevents your decline from impacting others. One of the huge problems with letting parents fail on their own is that they are greatly exposed to potential fraud, even from less scrupulous family members, not to mention the potential harm they could cause to others (ex. burning house/apt down, driving well past prime, etc.). I've unfortunately witnessed everything I'm describing.

I have a much younger friend who has agreed to monitor me in my situation (much as she already has by checking me on my thought process -- otherwise known as a good friend). She is my executor (and also one of my beneficiaries). Very fine mind and I trust her implicitly (the most trustworthy person I have ever known and she already has her MIL living with her). My family is out of state and too professionally burdened. Not only that, but, we die relatively young in my immediate family. I am not likely to make it to that state of decrepitude. My 15 to 20 year older siblings have really hung in there mentally and it's the body that falls apart and cancer is what takes us all down (I already have my diagnosis, both parents were gone back in the 70's and my two eldest siblings are gone also both cancer).

 

[LateToFIRE]

I have a much younger friend who has agreed to monitor me in my situation (much as she already has by checking me on my thought process -- otherwise known as a good friend). She is my executor (and also one of my beneficiaries). Very fine mind and I trust her implicitly (the most trustworthy person I have ever known and she already has her MIL living with her). My family is out of state and too professionally burdened. Not only that, but, we die relatively young in my immediate family. I am not likely to make it to that state of decrepitude. My 15 to 20 year older siblings have really hung in there mentally and it's the body that falls apart and cancer is what takes us all down (I already have my diagnosis, both parents were gone back in the 70's and my two eldest siblings are gone also both cancer).

Sounds like a good plan - sorry to hear about the longevity issues.

 

[Wile E. Coyote]

Sounds like a good plan - sorry to hear about the longevity issues.

Yes. We have known about the longevity issue for 50 years and though the siblings have done a bit better than the parents we do not have to worry about being in our 90's. To me life has been very long...