Greetings

[gravesend]

Greetings everyone.

Although I've often fatasized about FIRE, i feel that the process of getting there is stressing me out big time. 

I am 27 y/o, turning 28 end of june, and i've had 4 different jobs since graduating from college.

Right now, I work in a big bank corporation with a cushy job that pays quite decent (about 85k including bonus).  This job also gives me a lot of free time to "enjoy" life and to look for other money-making opportunities.  Last year, I made another 80k or so flipping properties.. overall, i figure my current net worth is about 400k, which includes equity in my primary residence.

Although I am extremely happy about my financial situation, i find that i am sacrificing happiness in the meantime.  Although the job is comfy, it's extremely boring and has very little growth.  My primary function is to run ad hoc reports and i often feel that I am overpaid for what I do.  Besides feeling that I lack any real marketable skills, I also do not socialize with my fellow co-workers.. which makes working here even more unbearable.  I've often thought about switching jobs and have tried doing so.. but I haven't been able to find anything that pays this well and I really don't have any other marketable skills.  (I was a web programmer before but the demand for that is too low)

So right now, I've thought about pursuing an mba in finance so i can develop an extra skill where i believe can be valuable anywhere in the world.  But I am fearful that my personality may not be compatible with finance jobs.  For example, I think i am more hands on and think more like a programmer type. 

I know I can't keep doing what I am doing now, hence why I am such a mess right now.  Has anyone been in this situation before and can you tell me your experience? 

If I continue to suffer like this for the next 10 years, I can possibly achieve FIRE at a faster rate.. but I would like to have a good balance in life.  Can anyone shed some advice?

Thanks all you wise ones.

 

[JRB]

G.

Sounds like you have a pretty good start on FIRE. Take your time and look around for some type of employment you like to do. That should take some of th stress and boredom out of your daily life.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

What do you mean "th stress" ?

Gravesend...balance is key. You're young yet. Leave the ER'ing to the thirty and forty somethings. I probably wouldnt be enjoying this as much if I hadnt had at least 20 years of working for morons, psychopaths and mental defectives.

 

[Lazarus]

I defiantly have not been in the situation of having a $400K net worth in my 20’s. You are doing great by anyone’s definition. As to the job, that’s why they call it work. Most of us don’t care much for our jobs. The income is what we are there for. Keep it up and you won’t have to worry about a job by your early 40’s. Good luck.

 

[laurence]

Sounds like a little persective is in order. You can't concentrate on just the money, or else what is the money for? You are younger than me, make more money than me, and have a net worth that's about the same as my wife and I combined! How much of that net worth is in your residence?

Quick, list three things you like to do in your spare time, your three best friends, the last three great weekends you had, etc. - If that was hard to do, then you need to spend more life energy in non-monetary areas now.

Flipping houses is hard/pressure packed work, and we all hear the ticking of that real estate bubble. Get your money in some stable investments (Vanguard), join a book club, go sailing, buy a kayak. Do anything that has nothing to do with financial planning or ER. Get a certification, take a night class. Meet people who do what you do and see where they are planning on taking their career. The possibilities are endless. Too much life to live!

 

[wildcat]

Get a certification

Could be all it takes to get in a new field

So right now, I've thought about pursuing an mba in finance so i can develop an extra skill where i believe can be valuable anywhere in the world

Approach with caution. I went back to do the same thing. Trying to enter the finance arena but a few years in another field killed me. The people that went straight in are light years ahead of me. Now I am trying to catch up and don't know if I have the skill set or connections to do it. I have learned some new things but think about the time and money. Plan carefully.

 

[Nords]

Right now, I work in a big bank corporation with a cushy job that pays quite decent (about 85k including bonus).  This job also gives me a lot of free time to "enjoy" life and to look for other money-making opportunities.  Last year, I made another 80k or so flipping properties.. overall, i figure my current net worth is about 400k, which includes equity in my primary residence.

Although I am extremely happy about my financial situation, i find that i am sacrificing happiness in the meantime.  Although the job is comfy, it's extremely boring and has very little growth.  My primary function is to run ad hoc reports and i often feel that I am overpaid for what I do.  Besides feeling that I lack any real marketable skills, I also do not socialize with my fellow co-workers.. which makes working here even more unbearable.  I've often thought about switching jobs and have tried doing so.. but I haven't been able to find anything that pays this well and I really don't have any other marketable skills.  (I was a web programmer before but the demand for that is too low)

So right now, I've thought about pursuing an mba in finance so i can develop an extra skill where i believe can be valuable anywhere in the world.  But I am fearful that my personality may not be compatible with finance jobs.  For example, I think i am more hands on and think more like a programmer type. 

I know I can't keep doing what I am doing now, hence why I am such a mess right now.  Has anyone been in this situation before and can you tell me your experience? 

If I continue to suffer like this for the next 10 years, I can possibly achieve FIRE at a faster rate.. but I would like to have a good balance in life.  Can anyone shed some advice?

Thanks all you wise ones.

Welcome to the board, Gravesend.  (I hope that handle's not autobiographical!)  We're not so wise but we sure have the time to bat these questions around.

It's very hard to jeopardize an $85K bird in the hand for anything in the bush.  I (and many of my bosses) spent decades in a state of disbelief at what I was being paid for my alleged job skills.  If they're going to pay you that much as a testament to your expertise then I'm afraid you're going to have to trust their judgment and keep depositing their checks.  However if you're going to burn out then you're going to have a hard time making it for the next 10 years.  (I just saw the third Star Wars movie.  It gives a whole new meaning to the term "career burnout".)

If you don't have very specific guidance, perhaps your boss is waiting for you to show some initiative and propose a minor improvement to the way you're doing business now.  You can wait for people to tell you what to do or you can tactfully propose a change.  Another option might be to let your boss know that you're interested in non-routine assignments or special projects.  (TH, jump in here.)  If you augment your basics by collecting arcane skills then you'll be invaluable to your current employer and you'll have a very wide resume. 

You don't sound too sure that a finance MBA will thrill you to your soul, but at least your job gives you the time to check into schools and to network with other finance types to find out if it's for you.  It's possible that you'll get enough workplace opportunities to gain the experiential equivalent of a finance MBA.  You might even be able to get the company to send you to school on their dime while you're still on the payroll.  (Think of all the work time you could abuse use to catch up on studying.)

Perhaps you need to know more about manipulating your co-workers.  You may work with a bunch of sociopaths, but part of it may also be yours & others' personality preferences.  If you don't already know about Myers-Briggs personality types, do a search on this board for "INTJ" and read some of the threads or read any of these books.  You don't have to be friendly with these people but it certainly helps to know what motivates them when you're trying to persuade them.

But frankly it sounds like the best things in your life will happen far away from work.  Many people would kill to have your free time away from the office, and the last thing many of us wanted to do was to socialize with the people that we had to spend the workweek with.  Like Laurence says, pick some outside interests and start pursuing them. 

You're far ahead of the net worth curve at a lifepoint when most 20-somethings are just starting to think about paying off credit cards & starting an IRA with that next pay raise.  If you're between flips then I'd park those profits in an asset allocation and pursue other personal-improvement or recreational activities.  Perhaps starting with a vacation!

 

[HFWR]

One observation: if you are overpaid, someone will eventually notice, so thinking about adding more education and/or skills is a good thing. However, cash every check they give you in the meantime.

The grass isn't ALWAYS greener. I was "downsized" several years ago, which really f***** up my RE plans, since I lost my defined-benefit pension in the process. But after interviewing for umpteen $25k a year jobs, I came back to the same corp, because they were by far the highest bidder. Sometimes I want to chuck it all, but I'm not sure working two years somewhere else to make the same money I make in one here would make me any happier. Of course, I'm not in my 20s anymore..............

One more thing: go get laid!! Always makes me feel better...

 

[gravesend]

thank you all for your comments.

while i do have interests outside of work, i just can't help but feel depressed everytime i go back to the office. not only that, i also feel like a fake and that I am not contributing anything to society. how do people deal with that?

 

[Nords]

thank you all for your comments.

while i do have interests outside of work, i just can't help but feel depressed everytime i go back to the office.  not only that, i also feel like a fake and that I am not contributing anything to society.  how do people deal with that? 

This is a little unusual.  Most of the people on this board hate going to the office because they have a particularly ugly job (involving explosives or firearms or wild weasels or hazardous waste) or else a particularly nasty boss.  Few are well-paid to be neglected and ignored.  It sounds like the dream career!

But I guess you have several choices.  You can feel depressed about going to the office, you can set goals for yourself that make you feel happier about going to the office, or you can figure out a way to earn a living without going to that office.  But feeling depressed about going to the office is ultimately your choice, and within your control to change.  And if you feel like a fake, then figure out where you're faking it and try to learn how to do it "for real".  But many, me included, have built entire careers out of faking it-- by being the one-eyed man in the valley of the blind. 

Anyone who lives their life without hurting others, who saves responsibly to support themselves for the rest of their lives, and even who spends their paychecks to boost the economy is contributing to society.  If you want to make a more concrete contribution then start donating your money and your time to the charity of your choice.

You can read dozens of stories about "washed-up old pharts" who didn't even hit their strides until their 60s. You're not even 28 yet for goshsakes and you're certainly not insolvent.  Lighten up a little and find something that captures your interest.  Pursue HFWR's advice, or go get some other variety of a good workout!

Have you read Po Bronson's "What Should I Do With My Life?"  His feelings occasionally echo yours...

 

[laurence]

(I just saw the third Star Wars movie. It gives a whole new meaning to the term "career burnout".)

He did go postal, didn't he?

Man, I sounded opinionated there in my last post! One thing to note, in all seriousness, you use words like depressed, bored etc. and your sign in name isn't excactly cheerful....you don't think you might be suffering from any sort of depression, do you? Depression is very serious and can make even a good situation in life seem bad. We're just a bunch of people on the internet, maybe talking to someone in confidence just to clear up that possibility is in order before you start fixing things that aren't broken. Have a good one and welcome.

 

[MooreBonds]

So right now, I've thought about pursuing an mba in finance so i can develop an extra skill where i believe can be valuable anywhere in the world. But I am fearful that my personality may not be compatible with finance jobs. For example, I think i am more hands on and think more like a programmer type.

I know I can't keep doing what I am doing now, hence why I am such a mess right now. Has anyone been in this situation before and can you tell me your experience?

Howdy Gravesend. I'm a 28 year youngin who is also in a 'burn-out' type job (working for my father's construction company). Pay is awesome, but stress is unreal, and my personality type isn't handling it too well.

I'm starting a part-time MBA this fall. I'd recommend that you look at it as well. A few comments on that:

1) MBA programs - don't forget that there are multiple areas of concentration for MBAs, not just finance. Why not try a Finance AND another area (one that interests you) for concentrations? Although I fantasize about numbers day and night (hey, I didn't say what those numbers represented, did I? ), perhaps being a hands-on type might incline you more towards general management or production? Coupled with a finance concentration, a GM focus would be pretty good. At any rate, go to an information session and ask some questions.

2) Some companies actually offer tution (full or partial) reimbursement for MBA programs. Check with your HR department.

3) As others have said, a, 85k/year salary is damn good for a 28-year old with your net worth. I'm in a somewhat similar financial position, and don't need too many more years of it before I get soooooo close to FIRE that I can taste the smoke. However, rather than the stress and aggrivations that I have, you seem to be more bored at your job and feel overpaid. Don't worry about the overpaid bit - I felt that way when I first started working out of college, and I soon realized that I wasn't overpaid for what I did (especially considering the uncompensated overtime I put in). If your employer is paying you that much, they obviously derive more benefit from you than they are paying you - if you truly weren't worth it, you woudln't have a job anymore. Our goal is FIRE - which will be pretty damn sweet once we get there. If the journey in our jobs to FIRE were just as enjoyable as FIRE, then we would never have a need to retire, would we? Just a few words of encouragement to help make the days more palatable and enjoyable.

If you're really that bored, ask someone if there's something you could help them with, since you just finished up a task and had a little free time for the next one to be assigned to you. Might open the door to a few friendships AND make the day more interesting/enjoyable.

So, my advice would be to start a part-time MBA program, keep your job at the bank, and see what types of offers you get in 2-3 years when you get your degree. Compare it to your current job, and see how it looks.

WARNING: Some MBA programs (such as Washington University in St. Louis) have a policy of NOT providing career search assistance to employees who's employers pay for part/all of their tution. They claim that they aren't looking out for your employer's best interest. So, just one little tidbit to check out when you look into B-schools.

 

[BristolBane]

not only that, i also feel like a fake and that I am not contributing anything to society. how do people deal with that?

LOTS of people are faking it. Faking credentials, experience, "working", you name it. You've heard of the 80/20 rule? 80 percent of the work is done by 20 percent of the people? I've found that to be a good rule of thumb. I came up through the ranks of a large corporate data center. You would not believe the slackers and dolts that get promoted to ever higher *technical* jobs. Idiots getting promoted to management I can rationalize. But technical jobs? Where it's obvious if you know it or not? Baffling. The only thing I can think of is that we aren't an IT company but we have a large IT organization and infrastructure so we need somebody and the MIT grads aren't exactly beating down the door.

Sounds like you've got golden handcuffs; too much money to walk away from an unfulfilling job. Been there, done that, still there. Are you married or have kids? If not you still have a lot of flexibility. Personally, if it were me, I'd find something else and take the hit. I didn't pull that trigger when I could have and now I'm really handcuffed. Good luck.

 

[Mr._johngalt]

Hey Nords, if I had a job involving "explosives or firearms"
(non-military) I might go back to work

JG

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

That sounds great to me too! (The part about you working with explosives)

 

[Spanky]

gravesend,

You financial situation is in great shape. However, take some time to comtemplate what kind of work that interests you instead of jumping into the MBA program. Start networking and research on possible careers. In the interim, think of your position is only temporary until you find something of interest.

Spanky

 

[Mr._johngalt]

One observation: if you are overpaid, someone will eventually notice, so thinking about adding more education and/or skills is a good thing. However, cash every check they give you in the meantime. 

The grass isn't ALWAYS greener. I was "downsized" several years ago, which really f***** up my RE plans, since I lost my defined-benefit pension in the process. But after interviewing for umpteen $25k a year jobs, I came back to the same corp, because they were by far the highest bidder. Sometimes I want to chuck it all, but I'm not sure working two years somewhere else to make the same money I make in one here would make me any happier. Of course, I'm not in my 20s anymore..............

One more thing: go get laid!! Always makes me feel better...

I always thought it would make me feel better.
Sometimes I was wrong

JG

 

[Mr._johngalt]

That sounds great to me too!  (The part about you working with explosives)

Yep, I'm sure I'd do a bang-up job.

JG

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

John - he probably means another person should be involved...

(I kid, I kid!)

 

[laurence]

Wow! Getting rough in here, and my kevlar vest is on backorder!

 

[gravesend]

He did go postal, didn't he? 

Man, I sounded opinionated there in my last post!  One thing to note, in all seriousness, you use words like depressed, bored etc. and your sign in name isn't excactly cheerful....you don't think you might be suffering from any sort of depression, do you?  Depression is very serious and can make even a good situation in life seem bad.  We're just a bunch of people on the internet, maybe talking to someone in confidence just to clear up that possibility is in order before you start fixing things that aren't broken.  Have a good one and welcome.

Hi Laurence,

I just feel lost because I've been working at a job that I knew from the beginning that I didn't like, but took it out of necessity. I was laid off a month before closing on my apartment and took the first job that hired me. From then, I've applied to several jobs but haven't been successful. I am frustrated at myself for getting too comfortable at the current situation. Sometimes, there are some interesting tasks at work. But, often, I'm just running queries and making excel charts. The work doesn't excite me.

Gravesend... that's just the section of brooklyn, ny where i grew up...

My gf and my family all gave me different advice. some tell me to stick it out and some tell me to just look for new work. i just don't know how to or if i can give up the 85k paycheck.

 

[gravesend]

Howdy Gravesend. I'm a 28 year youngin who is also in a 'burn-out' type job (working for my father's construction company). Pay is awesome, but stress is unreal, and my personality type isn't handling it too well.

I'm starting a part-time MBA this fall. I'd recommend that you look at it as well. A few comments on that:

1) MBA  programs - don't forget that there are multiple areas of concentration for MBAs, not just finance. Why not try a Finance AND another area (one that interests you) for concentrations? Although I fantasize about numbers day and night (hey, I didn't say what those numbers represented, did I? ), perhaps being a hands-on type might incline you more towards general management or production? Coupled with a finance concentration, a GM focus would be pretty good. At any rate, go to an information session and ask some questions.

2) Some companies actually offer tution (full or partial) reimbursement for MBA programs. Check with your HR department.

3) As others have said, a, 85k/year salary is damn good for a 28-year old with your net worth. I'm in a somewhat similar financial position, and don't need too many more years of it before I get soooooo close to FIRE that I can taste the smoke. However, rather than the stress and aggrivations that I have, you seem to be more bored at your job and feel overpaid. Don't worry about the overpaid bit - I felt that way when I first started working out of college, and I soon realized that I wasn't overpaid for what I did (especially considering the uncompensated overtime I put in). If your employer is paying you that much, they obviously derive more benefit from you than they are paying you - if you truly weren't worth it, you woudln't have a job anymore. Our goal is FIRE - which will be pretty damn sweet once we get there. If the journey in our jobs to FIRE were just as enjoyable as FIRE, then we would never have a need to retire, would we? Just a few words of encouragement to help make the days more palatable and enjoyable.

If you're really that bored, ask someone if there's something you could help them with, since you just finished up a task and had a little free time for the next one to be assigned to you. Might open the door to a few friendships AND make the day more interesting/enjoyable.

So, my advice would be to start a part-time MBA program, keep your job at the bank, and see what types of offers you get in 2-3 years when you get your degree. Compare it to your current job, and see how it looks.

WARNING: Some MBA programs (such as Washington University in St. Louis) have a policy of NOT providing career search assistance to employees who's employers pay for part/all of their tution. They claim that they aren't looking out for your employer's best interest. So, just one little tidbit to check out when you look into B-schools.

peter76,

thank you for sharing your experience with me. i needed to hear from someone who's going through what i'm going through. what do you plan to major in your mba program?

the feeling about the job is that i don't know if i can fake my way to FIRE. I'd want to earn my way there.. or getting there in a more meaningful way.

also, not that getting where i am financially isn't meaningful, but i feel that i've just been somewhat lucky.

 

[gravesend]

This is a little unusual.  Most of the people on this board hate going to the office because they have a particularly ugly job (involving explosives or firearms or wild weasels or hazardous waste) or else a particularly nasty boss.  Few are well-paid to be neglected and ignored.  It sounds like the dream career!

But I guess you have several choices.  You can feel depressed about going to the office, you can set goals for yourself that make you feel happier about going to the office, or you can figure out a way to earn a living without going to that office.  But feeling depressed about going to the office is ultimately your choice, and within your control to change.  And if you feel like a fake, then figure out where you're faking it and try to learn how to do it "for real".  But many, me included, have built entire careers out of faking it-- by being the one-eyed man in the valley of the blind. 

Anyone who lives their life without hurting others, who saves responsibly to support themselves for the rest of their lives, and even who spends their paychecks to boost the economy is contributing to society.  If you want to make a more concrete contribution then start donating your money and your time to the charity of your choice.

You can read dozens of stories about "washed-up old pharts" who didn't even hit their strides until their 60s. You're not even 28 yet for goshsakes and you're certainly not insolvent.  Lighten up a little and find something that captures your interest.  Pursue HFWR's advice, or go get some other variety of a good workout!

Have you read Po Bronson's "What Should I Do With My Life?"  His feelings occasionally echo yours...

Nords,

I know i gotta chill! And yes, i've read that book.. which makes me want to break away from the comfortable 85k even more! the best story in that book is about the man who's bigger picture was to help his people become more self-reliant. i still haven't figured out what my calling is... and i feel like i am just wasting my time now.

alright.. i really need to chill.

thanks and goodnight!

 

[Mr._johngalt]

peter76,

thank you for sharing your experience with me.  i needed to hear from someone who's going through what i'm going through.  what do you plan to major in your mba program? 

the feeling about the job is that i don't know if i can fake my way to FIRE.  I'd want to earn my way there.. or getting there in a more meaningful way.

also, not that getting where i am financially isn't meaningful, but i feel that i've just been somewhat lucky. 

Get there however you can, and BTW is there something shameful about just being lucky? I thought lucky was a good thing.

JG

 

[Mr._johngalt]

LOTS of people are faking it.  Faking credentials, experience, "working", you name it.  You've heard of the 80/20 rule?  80 percent of the work is done by 20 percent of the people?  I've found that to be a good rule of thumb.  I came up through the ranks of a large corporate data center.  You would not believe the slackers and dolts that get promoted to ever higher *technical* jobs.  Idiots getting promoted to management I can rationalize.  But technical jobs?  Where it's obvious if you know it or not?  Baffling.  The only thing I can think of is that we aren't an IT company but we have a large IT organization and infrastructure so we need somebody and the MIT grads aren't exactly beating down the door.

Sounds like you've got golden handcuffs;  too much money to walk away from an unfulfilling job.  Been there, done that, still there.  Are you married or have kids?  If not you still have a lot of flexibility.  Personally, if it were me, I'd find something else and take the hit.  I didn't pull that trigger when I could have and now I'm really handcuffed.  Good luck.

The 80/20 rule works in many venues. For example, 20% of the fisherman catch 80%
of the fish.

JG