Guilt Trips & Other Doubts

[Caroline]

When I made a certain investment 5 years ago my sister actually said " wow, you must be a millionare, now you can buy me a house".  Dh's jaw dropped and he later asked me if she was for real.  I had to say yes because she actually believes I should buy her a house.

LOL!  My sister (who's never worked more than two days a week in her life), asked me to co-sign a loan for a house for her (in the middle of the Calif. housing bubble, no less).  I politely turned her down, after which she got quite angry and exclaimed how unfair it was that "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer."   This from a woman born a year and a day after I was and raised in the same working-class family!

When people who supposedly love and care for you find that you are doing well financially, the correct response is "congratulations!"   For the obnoxious others, I have a standard response.

It goes like this:  "Bite me!"

;-)
Caroline

 

[73ss454]

I've found that in life that the only 2 people that are really happy for your success are your parents. Sometimes in disfunctional familes this is not even true.

Most everyone else is envious.

 

[Nords]

In fact, the first few weeks after I quit I may get up early just so I can head over to the office to smile and wave at everyone as they trudge in to another 12 hour day.  I expect Mondays to be especially gratifying.

Don't forget, you'll have your life back soon and there'll be many better ways to pass your time...

Woke up early that Monday morning, said eff it, rolled over and went back to sleep...

... like that!

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

i can't imagine people in my life not being happy for me. i was going to retire this past jan as a present to myself on my 49th b-day but instead retired last summer with my friends saying "what are you waiting for?" (as if doing them injustice by working when i didn't have to).

they can't wait for me to start taking month or two long summer vacations (do i even call them vacations now?), renting an apartment on some island or downeast where they can come crash for free for their actual vacations.

in five/six years when i sell house and move onto boat they will have their own free skippered charters.

my problem is not me being retired. it is that all my friends are still working. because now that i have all the toys, i've no one to play with.

 

[Martha]

I don't feel one bit guilty.
Every once in a while, we think about how lucky and fortunate we are.

I do feel a strong sense of obligation to relatives. This has effected timing of my retirement. If we had no family odds are I would have retired some time ago. We need a significant cushion in our budget so we can provide assistance. Very hard to budget for though. My poor DH has gloom and doom fantasies of all my relatives living with us. Or putting single wides for each family on a scrubby piece of northern Minnesota land.

 

[SteveR]

I don't feel one bit guilty.
Every once in a while, we think about how lucky and fortunate we are.

I do feel a strong sense of obligation to relatives.  This has effected timing of my retirement.  If we had no family odds are I would have retired some time ago.  We need a significant cushion in our budget so we can provide assistance.  Very hard to budget for though.  My poor DH has gloom and doom fantasies of all my relatives living with us.  Or putting single wides for each family on a scrubby piece of northern Minnesota land.   

Martha,
I understand Greg's gloom and doom nightmares on having family squat on your land (pun intended). We share a similar concern since we have already "helped" out a couple of family members already with no repayment in sight and the strain it has created between family members. The perspective of additional "needs" is ever present and we have already said No more than once with the expected whining about it not being "fair". That said, if a family member were truly in trouble it would never be a second thought. Laziness and poor financial planning is not a reason for us to hurt our ER plans. We have learned a valuable lesson about lending money to family and expecting to ever see it back again. We have resolved that is now a one time "gift".

Don't let them derail your ER plans. Only impending inprisionment due to financial crisis or starvation or homelessness would be sufficient cuase for dipping into the nest egg to help our family, but it always comes down to personal choice and "blood is thicker than water." It is always easier to say what you won't do........until you are faced with a family member in financial crisis...then the picture gets all fuzzy again. :

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

I've found the same "it's not fair" attitude when it comes to good health. At 35 years old I'm in the best physical shape of my life. To achieve that, I've had to get up at 5:00 a.m. to go to the gym 3 days a week for cardio, and go to the gym in the evening on the intervening 3 days for weight training (I take the 7th day off from the gym). Likewise, I eat extremely healthy and take a whole slew of vitamins, supplemental protein, etc...

When people look at me, they attribute my good health to genetics, having lots of free time, not enjoying the "good life", etc... What they NEVER attribute it to is self-discipline, hard work and determination.

When I eventually FIRE in my 40s, I'd like to be healthy enough to enjoy my money for decades to come.

 

[JonnyM]

I find myself as a very short-timer in the strange position of quelling other coworkers doubts. Having worked for a fairly large public agency for many years ( 900+ souls in the same building) I've become somewhat of an 'example' of what's possible to my peers. Since we are all eligible for the same benefits more or less, and the calculations are available to all at any time they choose to investigate, it's been interesting in the last few months to have fellow employees want to 'interview' me about how I "Did It".

I've found it odd (over the 7 years that I've been planning FIRE) that so few of my coworkers take advantage of the earliest outs. The answer when I ask them is spread between:

1. Never really thought about it: "Don't you HAVE to work until at least 55-60 to get a decent pension? Don't you need to replace all or most of your gross income to retire?"

2. Thought about it: "I want to get maximum dollars, so that means I have to stay another year, and another year, because they tell me no matter how long I work, I'll get a better payout, the longer I stay."

3. Thought about it recently: "That JonnyM guy seems to have it figured out, I'm going to find out what his secret is before he leaves us."


Group 3 which numbers less than 1 percent of all co-workers have been a joy to chat with, as I lay it out for them. The various concepts I've seen discussed here, i.e. Take home was never close to gross, LBYM as a lifestyle, the Cost of Working, having a paid for Home, far less taxes, maximizing tax deferred savings via the 457 plan, etc.

This small group has really given me a feeling of satisfaction, as in all cases I've chopped years off their mindset for a final retirement date. So in my case I haven't felt too much pressure to stay, or guilt tripping, more I've become a tiny guru for FIRE. I swear I could give a decently attended seminar here, if they'd let me waste company time for it.

Ah well, no time 12 working days, left gotta start boxing up my stuff, and throwing away a couple decades accumulation of junk ............... :

 

[Nords]

I don't feel one bit guilty.
Every once in a while, we think about how lucky and fortunate we are.

I do feel a strong sense of obligation to relatives.  This has effected timing of my retirement.

As long as you don't feel like you're working yourself to death for your relatives. It has to be motivated by your own personal conscience or satisfaction, because few others are capable of appreciating the sacrifice.

I've read somewhere that the vast majority of caregivers for elderly/disabled are women relatives.

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

I'm in the best physical shape of my life.  To achieve that, I've had to get up at 5:00 a.m. to go to the gym 3 days a week for cardio, and go to the gym in the evening on the intervening 3 days for weight training

perhaps the expressed envy is just hidden lust. like early retirement enjoy it. difference being, to enjoy er, you had to work for it. to enjoy the lust you just work it.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I don't feel one bit guilty.
Every once in a while, we think about how lucky and fortunate we are.

I do feel a strong sense of obligation to relatives. This has effected timing of my retirement. If we had no family odds are I would have retired some time ago. We need a significant cushion in our budget so we can provide assistance. Very hard to budget for though. My poor DH has gloom and doom fantasies of all my relatives living with us. Or putting single wides for each family on a scrubby piece of northern Minnesota land.

My wife and I have had to have 'those talks' about the relatives. Not really any problems on my side of the family, but hers are all spend and burn types with no savings, no insurance, and a big pile of toys and debt. Her dad is on social security disability and about to transition to regular social security. Her mom works a billion hours a week to fund a spending habit and a lot of generosity. She drives me nuts...every time she shows up its with an armful of tchochkies that we have no room for or interest in. Her brother works as a contractor to support his wifes hummer and small business fad of the month.

Nobody is putting money away for retirement. The brother has no insurance.

Either of them falls down and breaks something, its going to be a big problem.

We've decided that we'll make a one time payment to keep them afloat for one month, if asked to. After that, they need to start selling stuff until they get going again. If we had ten million bucks, the 'solution' might be different, however we're not going to pay out gabes college money or his inheritance to cover someone elses poor life planning, relative or not.

I did have an idea thats a little more upscale from Gregs...plots of 10-20 acres arent hard to come by for a somewhat rational price in some areas around here. Brother in law is a home builder. Have him put a few homes up with an attached in-law home on each one...with the homes not that close to each other on the piece of land. Sell our respective homes to finance the new ones, and then migrate our parents into the in-law quarters when they're too old to care for themselves. Let them sell their old homes to fund their continued retirements. Financially reasonable.

My wife nixed it though. No way she wants all those relatives that close...

 

[HFWR]

You married a smart one, CFB. Now get in there and do your duty...

 

[shorttimer]

I wouldn't change the timing of my retirement to help relatives who made poor choices. Through the years when we have talked about living below our means or making do with a car for another year and saving for the next one they have not wanted to listen and made fun of us, calling us cheap. They have gone through more new cars than I can ever hope to my entire life.

Now is someone had an unforseen circumstance, loss of job due to cancer, or catastropic hurricane like loss, that is totally different. We also help my elderly in-laws at time, doing repairs and not letting them give us money for the materials, and we pay for thier internet access after giving them a computer so they keep in touch with others via e-mail.

Spending money like crazy, declaring bankruptcy a few times then expecting someone else to help you that has prepared is lunacy.

 

[riskadverse]

For the last 5 to 7 years of my job, I never made it a secret about what I was up to (ER).  Lots of my cow-orkers thought I was way too focused on money.  I don't think any of them resented it when I retired because my intentions had been so public, but it did sober up a few of them . . . knowing that it could be done.  Needless to say, they have become focused on money.   

 

[mildreda]

How have you managed to retire early? How did you have medical benefits? Were the kids grown and out of the house? Do you have health problems?Prescription coverage?
What is your life style? Do you garden,do you can or freeze foods, do rebates, use coupons, barter, shop at thrift stores, garage sales, do e bay?s
How did you plan for retirement?
What did you invest your savings in?
I am very interested and have just found this site-not being nosy but want to follow your example. thanks

 

[Gone4Good]

Sam,
Do you think any of your "peers" feel guilty because they spend more money then you do . . . live in a bigger house, drive a nicer car, take more lavish vacations, etc?

If they don't feel guilty spending their money to buy things that you probably live without, why should you feel guilty spending your money to buy free time.

 

[SamHouston]

You guys have really made me feel better about my initial reaction. I've been reading your responses for the last couple of days, and I think that you touched on every emotion I felt, every response I've had...and you described some family situations so similar to some of mine that I cringed in response to your stories.

I think the one aspect of this that will be toughest to handle is the one of family members who just don't get it. I only have one sibling, as does my wife, and we've found ourselves not seeing them as often as in the past because they always seem to drop hints about their latest financial problems. We find it so hard to "bite our tongues" that we've been avoiding them more often than we really should...kind of sad, but it's better than saying some things we'll regret later on, I suppose.

 

[Nords]

they always seem to drop hints about their latest financial problems.

It could just be their attempt to relieve a little pressure from a problem that's always on their minds... but it's hard not to be suspicious when the subject keeps coming up. It's not as if you can say "Gee, that sounds tough, what's the next step?"

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

"Thats a bummer.

Got any beer in the fridge?"

 

[fire5soon]

I've been made fun of for years for eating PB&J's for lunch 9 out of 10 days at work instead of going out for $10/day. It used to bother me ever so slightly in the beginning... but now I almost enjoy it. When they start making their comments I sorta smile inside knowing they just don't get it.

I know, it sucks for them in the long run, but it's their fault... not mine.

-Jay

 

[rs0460a]

It used to bother me
I know, it sucks for them in the long run, but it's their fault... not mine.

-Jay

Jay - remember the old quote, "What you think of me is none of my business!"

- Ron...

 

[tryan]

Most of the family and friends response upon FIRE was disbelief (rather than doubt). Now the phone calls are coming in for investment advice. I suppose some might be holding out that I'll take another job eventually.

Many years ago my brother and BIL asked for $$ (after stiffing other family for other "loans"). Said "no" to both but gave advice worth 10 fold (pay yourself first, dollar cost average ...). No $$ requests since.

Also was on the asking/begging side. Paid my father and FIL 10% interest on 5 year loans. Used the $$ to buy real estate at auctions in the early 1990s. Never missed a payment. FIL said "it was the best investment he had". If any family came to me with a similar proposal ... I am IN. But ask for a hand-out and you'll get an ear full.

 

[HFWR]

Jay - remember the old quote, "What you think of me is none of my business!"

- Ron...

Or the corollary: If I want any $hit from you, I beat it out of you...

 

[azanon]

I hate to buck the trend here, but what's not to believe about some of you?  If they knew you made 6 figure salaries (I know this is true for at least some of you), but saw how you drove old cars all your working life, never upgraded your house, rarely went on vacations, etc., then why are they surprised?  The money didn't just vanish unless they also knew you had a gambling problem, which you don't.

I would think they're just as likely to reflect on how you "suffered" for 20 years not enjoying all the things they did and maybe remarking "I hope it was worth it" in your direction, as they go to a job that maybe they actually do like.

Yes, i believe there are going to be a lot of people envious of you reacting just as was described here.  But I think there are also some folks who are going to completey understand what you did, but still not get it.   

There is no win/win scenario when you look at the entire lifespan unless you just made a sick amount of money (meaning enough money to do all the things they did, yet retire early too). As i save a lot myself, i am definitely not partaking in some things that others with similar income as me get to enjoy right now.

I hope folks dont get offended.  But i'm just not buying the notion that you guys are now the subject of everyone's envy. 

Let me remind those that dont know that I'm all for ER and i'm saving quite a bit myself.  So i'm not one of them, per se.

Azanon

 

[Martha]

Az has a good point. My partners know how much money I make and I know what they make. I don't think they are sitting around envying my part time schedule and soon to be ER. They like their lifestyles or jobs or both.