Health Care for Retirees Eliminated

[LEX]

Perhaps the sooner that corporations drop their 'pledge" to cover retirement medical care, and the matter gains status as a real national crisis, the insurance-medical complex will actually have to find customers on an individual, competitive basis, rather than group based "take it or leave it" basis. 

Here is your essay question for extra credit:

Imagine if every corporation in the US dropped medical coverage overnight.  What would be the result out there? Would it result in an open market?  Is there a premise that without the certainty of huge corporate health insurance premiums the insurance-medical complex would have to adopt or die? (Could it be that now the dying is being done mostly by the ranks of the emerging Uninsured American Peasant Class.) Please discuss.

 

[parnass]

Would it result in an open market?

If health benefits were dropped suddenly by all employers, you'd probably see more sick people.

I think the costs would eventually drop somewhat, but health care will never be a true open market as other markets are. The choices are too complex. Customers (patients) are often forced to make choices when ill and without the time or ability to comparison shop.

The government regulates drugs with a wink and a nod to the pharmaceutical industry, preventing true competition.

 

[Mr._johngalt]

Perhaps He allows us to grow old because He does want us to think about what lies ahead:

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:  Hebrews 9:27  KJV

Or Shakespeare.............By my troth, I care not; a man can die but once; we owe God a death and let it go which way it will, he that dies this year is quit for the next.

JG

 

[Martha]

Here is your essay question for extra credit:

Imagine if every corporation in the US dropped medical coverage overnight. What would be the result out there? Would it result in an open market? Is there a premise that without the certainty of huge corporate health insurance premiums the insurance-medical complex would have to adopt or die? (Could it be that now the dying is being done mostly by the ranks of the emerging Uninsured American Peasant Class.) Please discuss.

The analogy might be homeowner's insurance. No flood insurance unless subsidized by government. People have mold claims? Eliminate mold insurance. I would anticipate lots of exclusions unless government got involved and said policies had to cover x, y and z. There is some of this going all already, mostly on a state by state basis.

I also would anticipate different cost structure based on health so the unhealthly get priced out of the market. The question might be where the line is drawn because insurers can't cut out too many people from their pool of potential customers.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

The reason why I think we'll see nationalization vs status quo or universal high deductible plans is that the health care industry, both on its own 'merits' and the increasing legislation that incurs costs simply wont ever back away from the trough.

I think we'll see the ranks of the uninsured grow with the price increases, while businesses will move to the high deductible plans to cut their costs.

At some point, you'll have a sea of have-nots who only go into the emergency room when they're desperately ill, at which point the hospital has to offer at least minimal treatment for free, a group of well-to-do people who actually have coverage that pays the bills, and a gigantic majority of high deductible plan holders who wont go in unless they're very sick as they cant afford the huge out of pocket costs.

In that scenario, theres nobody paying the bills for a large medical community. No cash inflow = no business. So you either need to nationalize it or dump half the medical staff and close half the buildings.

You cant have something everyone needs at boutique prices. It just wont last.

 

[runnerr]

I totally agree with TH the health care system can’t go on as it is. The price is causing companies to cut heath care entirely or increase the cost to retirees and future retirees to the point they can’t afford it. As was mentioned many people will go with out because they can’t afford the cost of having the procedure. I feel that the system is totally abused by the retirees or employees who have heath insurance. They have unnecessary procedures and tests just to make 100 percent sure. The medical profession is too blame also having patients go through procedures and test to make absolutely sure nothing is wrong. I can also blame the damn tort attorneys with all the malpractice suites, which in turn gives the doctor no choice, but to run the test and thus increase the cost billed to the insurance companies. Then we all realize what happens, the cost is passed on. Yes we do need national health insurance or we will all be doomed.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Well, to be fair the biggest problem isnt people doing too many tests. That medical care is overly expensive in the first place is definitely one problem.

But the biggest issue is that most of the health care costs are spent in the last year of someones life. Obviously on heroic efforts that didnt work, or hey...they wouldnt have been incurred shortly before death.

My wife has plenty of stories from the hospital of keeping people who are never going to recover on machines weeks and months because the family cant do what needs to be done. People who are do badly injured that death would be a blessing suffering 'lifesaving assistance' for hours and days.

Not that this is going to change. Doctors jobs are to do whatever they can and they're not the types to admit to their limitations or not want to do whatever they can. People arent going to look at a mangled or brain dead family member and make a timely and money saving decision to stop care. Hospitals are going to bill the bejesus out of the insurance companies for every effort made.

Given that theres no way to control the mainstream or extreme costs, and the system at its size and breadth cant live as an elitist boutique, it has to be regulated. Believe me, i'm the last person to think government regulation of ANYTHING is a good idea, but I dont think its avoidable.

Just like people are mostly too dumb to save for their retirement, the health care system is too dumb to save itself from extinction.

 

[LEX]

Martha and Th: Great responses.

 

[Michael]

Or Shakespeare.............By my troth, I care not; a man can die but once; we owe God a death and let it go which way it will, he that dies this year is quit for the next.

Ah, the character Feeble, who claims to prefers death to dishonor:

By my troth, I care not; a man can die but once: we owe God a death: I’ll ne’er bear a base mind: an’t be my destiny, so; an’t be not, so: no man is too good to serve’s prince; and let it go which way it will, he that dies this year is quit for the next.

 

[Mr._johngalt]

Ah, the character Feeble, who claims to prefers death to dishonor:

By my troth, I care not; a man can die but once: we owe God a death: I’ll ne’er bear a base mind: an’t be my destiny, so; an’t be not, so: no man is too good to serve’s prince; and let it go which way it will, he that dies this year is quit for the next.

Damned fine, eh?

JG

 

[Michael]

Would it result in an open market?

No.  The only way to get a free market is to eliminate all  unneeded regulations.  When Thai doctors are free to open hospitals in the United States, and provide medical care without all the red tape, then you would have a free market.  They would be thrown in jail if they tried to now, because they don't have state licensces to practice medicine here.

When you can buy your Lipitor from Amazon.com without a prescription, you will have a free market.  Otherwise you will continue to have medicine so costly that people get sick from lack of medical care.  It will get worse before it gets better.

 

[Michael]

...fine, eh?

There are certainly worse things than death.

 

[Mr._johngalt]

There are certainly worse things than death.

Yep, and it's a very long list indeed.

JG

 

[Mr._johngalt]

No.  The only way to get a free market is to eliminate all  unneeded regulations.  When Thai doctors are free to open hospitals in the United States, and provide medical care without all the red tape, then you would have a free market.  They would be thrown in jail if they tried to now, because they don't have state licensces to practice medicine here.

When you can buy your Lipitor from Amazon.com without a prescription, you will have a free market.  Otherwise you will continue to have medicine so costly that people get sick from lack of medical care.  It will get worse before it gets better.

A "free market" ain't happening, at least not in this country. We are
going as fast as we can in the opposite direction IMHO.

JG

 

[Michael]

A "free market" ain't happening, at least not in this country.

I agree, and the blood of the sick who died needlessly is on the hands of the greedy who drive up costs for no good reason.

 

[Mr._johngalt]

I agree, and the blood of the sick who died needlessly is on the hands of the greedy who drive up costs for no good reason.

Whoa! LIghten up dude! Capitalism is the "unknown ideal" and would
top anything yet devised in terms of solving our problems. Trickle-down is
more than a slogan, it is a fact. Alas, the libs won't buy it and we will all reap a bitter harvest as a result.

JG

 

[laurence]

JG, maybe the libs won't buy it but nobody, repub or dem is selling it either, and you know that!

 

[Mr._johngalt]

JG, maybe the libs won't buy it but nobody, repub or dem is selling it either, and you know that!   

I agree completely.

JG

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I think I agree with the agreement, whatever it is.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Maybe not.

 

[Cut-Throat]

A "free market" ain't happening, at least not in this country.  We are
going as fast as we can in the opposite direction IMHO.

JG

The last thing that the major U.S. Corporations want is a free market. That is why they contribute big bucks to political campaigns. Big Oil is currently running the country and they currently have record profits.

 

[Michael]

Whoa! LIghten up dude!

Ok. Don't worry. Be happy.

 

[unclemick]

Here's a little humor - I used to have an old Scientific American Handbook bought at a garage sale.

Among the trival data was a turn of the century(1912) survey about the best paid professions:

1.Engineers
2.Dentists
3.Lawyers
4.Doctors

Heh, heh, heh, heh, eh

Now that is funny!

 

[ferco]

A major part of the problem lies within ourselves; we are spoiled as a society with regards to our health care and the mechanism through which it is paid for. A previous poster mentioned what would happen if suddenly the corporations didn't offer health insurance as a benefit.....I'd say we'd be more prudent with how we "waste" our health care dollars. As an example, how many people go to the doctor for every little ache and pain that they wake up with and expect the insurance to pick up the tab for our outlay of the $15-40 co-pay. Long gone are the days of treating a sore throat with salt water gargles, aspirin or tylenol, and hot tea ....no, we must have the latest, most expensive newly marketed antibiotic to treat the virus that it is. Instead of eating "properly"and in moderation and avoiding all the "Biggie Size" fast food, we gluttonous Americans would rather take expensives pills for our acquired diabetes and high blood pressure and not exercise since that would require too much effort and time....sooooo we PAY the price and then blaim the insurance companies. If we'd stop eating our lard ladened diets we wouldn't need the $20 K quadruple bypass and stents and the cardiovascular rehab and time-off that goes with it ......enough said

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I guess I'm wired wrong. I hate going to the doctor. Hell, he gave me a form to go get a fasting blood test 6 months ago and its still sitting on my desk.

I have a lot of trouble with that 'fasting' part...by the time I remember I'm supposed to go, I've got 2 cups of coffee in me. Without the coffee, it never occurs to me...