How to add the generator power input to the switch

[youbet]

As I said I would not recommend it for someone who is unsure of anything .

I agree your method would work as long as you limit total current draw to the amount the circuit breaker for the drier outlet is rated for. But the issue of being there personally to handle the switchover would trouble me considering you have frequent power outages.

At my house, I'm only interested in running either the sump pump in the basement or the furnace depending on circumstances (whether it's raining or whether it's very cold). I have an 1,850 watt continuous generator.

To run the sump pump (by far my biggest worry if we have a power outage), I can just run an extension cord since it plugs into a standard outlet.

I was just noodling how to get the furnace hooked up when I saw this thread and it looks like the Reliance manual transfer switch others have posted would work great! It also looks like something I could easily install myself and DW could handle the changeover. I think I'll order one.

 

[Jerry1]

P.S looks like I've already been flamed before my response to you. Doesn't surprise me. You can call me Charles from now on.

I would pull the meter. That way you know you're not feeding back to the grid.

 

[youbet]

I would pull the meter. That way you know you're not feeding back to the grid.

Belts and suspenders is the way to go if you're trying to keep your pants up Jerry. But flipping the main breakers off really should do it with a high level of confidence.

I do agree that preventing feedback onto the grid is the most important thing in the process.

 

[finnski1]

I agree your method would work as long as you limit total current draw to the amount the circuit breaker for the drier outlet is rated for. But the issue of being there personally to handle the switchover would trouble me considering you have frequent power outages.

At my house, I'm only interested in running either the sump pump in the basement or the furnace depending on circumstances (whether it's raining or whether it's very cold). I have an 1,850 watt continuous generator.

To run the sump pump (by far my biggest worry if we have a power outage), I can just run an extension cord since it plugs into a standard outlet.

I was just noodling how to get the furnace hooked up when I saw this thread and it looks like the Reliance manual transfer switch others have posted would work great! It also looks like something I could easily install myself and DW could handle the changeover. I think I'll order one.

Yes that switch for the furnace looks like a great solution.
Yes I have to be around to handle the changeover but we don't travel a lot and it has never been an issue to date. I don't have or need a sump pump and we don't travel in the winter though I suppose if the house was vacated for a week or two in the winter and the power went out it might be a problem with frozen pipes. This of course makes the case for a complete standby automated generator set up. I just don't have enough need to spend $10 k or more on that set up.

 

[youbet]

Let us know if you find someone that has them in stock.

Hee, hee...... yeah I'm just noticing that! They must be really popular or Reliance has them manufactured in Asia and they're all sitting in containers on ships waiting to be unloaded!

 

[Souschef]

What do you do if you have 220 single phase going into the house? I do not know if I would be comfortable tying them together at the input to the transfer switch from the generator.
My generator output is 120 volts.

 

[OldShooter]

What do you do if you have 220 single phase going into the house? I do not know if I would be comfortable tying them together at the input to the transfer switch from the generator.
My generator output is 120 volts.

No problem powering fridge, furnace, etc. using extension cords and plug strips.

If you want a full transfer panel, though, you will have to put all of your 110v loads on one phase and you will not be able to power 220volt loads at all. Easiest way out of this is to buy a different genset.

 

[corn18]

What do you do if you have 220 single phase going into the house? I do not know if I would be comfortable tying them together at the input to the transfer switch from the generator.
My generator output is 120 volts.

Why would you tie them together? You can wire the transfer switch as 120V.

You have to understand very clearly how all this works if you want to hook it up yourself. I think I know a lot of things, but when it comes to electricity in my house, I always hire someone. Mistakes can kill. If I mess something up with plumbing, I might get poo all over me.

 

[OldShooter]

... preventing feedback onto the grid is the most important thing in the process.

Err ... No.

... Mistakes can kill. ...

Not getting dead and not hurting someone else is the most important thing. This is why a male-male cord is such a bad idea.

 

[Souschef]

I have no 220 volt loads, some are on one side of the breaker panel, and some on the other side. I think I can power everything in the house with the exception of the AC.
I am an electrical engineer, and formerly put a new service in my old house from the pole. If all else fails, our son is an electrical contractor.

 

[gauss]

My solution is to use one of the interlock kits available at
this site.

They enable you to construct an inherently safe interlock system for a couple of hundred dollars or so. You can also power arbitrary circuits in your house without running cords too.

Of course you can also create an unsafe setup when you use this too. (ie using the male-male "suicide cards") as opposed to running a dedicated line with proper gender feed box.

-gauss

 

[youbet]

Err ... No.

Not getting dead and not hurting someone else is the most important thing. This is why a male-male cord is such a bad idea.

Err, no.......

Feeding power back onto the grid is how you get someone hurt.

I'm not a fan of safety-feature defeating solutions like a male-male cord, that's for sure. But at least if someone is doing that and they are fully aware of what they're doing, they have a lot of control of the situation. When you feed power back onto the grid, you're setting up a booby trap for the poor pole climber trying to get your power back on.

But the ranking of safety issues contains some philosophical components, so no point arm wrestling over it here.

 

[RetiredAt55.5]

The simplest, cheapest and one of the safest ways to power the furnace is to do this. BTW, I've done this for 30+ years with no issues. Trace the wire from the furnace and locate a point above where it is no longer encased in conduit. Buy a handy box, 1 cable clamp, a receptacle and outlet cover, and a plug capable of accepting the 14/2 Romex powering the furnace.

Turn off the breaker going to the furnace. Cut the wire and strip the insulation on both ends. On the wire from the furnace, attach the plug. Next, mount the handy box to a secure location such as the joist. Loop the remaining end of the cut wire through the cable clamp and the hole in the handy box. Attach the receptacle and screw the receptacle into the handy box, then attach the outlet cover. Plug the newly installed plug from the furnace into the receptacle. Turn the breaker back on.

Next buy a 12 gauge extension cord long enough to reach from the furnace to outside where you will place the generator. If the power goes out, simply unplug the plug from the receptacle and into the extension cord to the generator. No need for transfer switches and no worries about a surge when the electricity comes back on knocking out a control board in the furnace.

And replace the existing faulty switch immediately!

I really like the transfer switch jimbee recommended but can't find any in stock anywhere.

That's probably the way I'm going to go. I have gas hot water baseboard heat, so I only need to power the ~70 watt water circulator.

Of course, the downside is that this would probably fail an inspection when selling so then I'd have to revert it back. Still better than a freezing house in a power outage.

 

[OldShooter]

I have no 220 volt loads, some are on one side of the breaker panel, and some on the other side. I think I can power everything in the house with the exception of the AC.
I am an electrical engineer, and formerly put a new service in my old house from the pole. If all else fails, our son is an electrical contractor.

Good. No problem then. You know what you are dealing with.

 

[freedomatlast]

That's probably the way I'm going to go. I have gas hot water baseboard heat, so I only need to power the ~70 watt water circulator.

Of course, the downside is that this would probably fail an inspection when selling so then I'd have to revert it back. Still better than a freezing house in a power outage.

I've sold a house with the plug and receptacle intact on a furnace and it passed inspection, but I'm not sure the inspector even noticed it. Also not sure it it's officially against code to do that in this area.

 

[homestead]

Yes you can do that and that is what I do. However I would not recommend it. Basically you have a live male end on one end. Some people refer to these as "suicide cords". You have to follow a very strict energizing and de energizing procedure to do this safely. Much safer for the OP to get a proper transfer switch installed by a licensed electrician.

You could make your suicide cord a little safer by making the dryer end of the cord lock onto the dryer outlet so that it can't be removed without a tool.

 

[CRLLS]

If you are going to go cord on the furnace and 2 distinct outlets, one house power and the other gen power, consider using a twist lock plug and outlets. L5-15 or L5-20 style. They are less likely to have the plug fall out while you are away on vacation in the middle of winter.

 

[Walt34]

I'll add another voice in support of doing it the right way and BTD to hire an electrician who knows what he (or she) is doing and buy a proper transfer switch. At least two people have given links to a reasonably priced one for just a furnace or any other appliance such as a refrigerator.

I'll admit to some bias here - my father was a lineman for a number of years before moving to another position at P.E.P.Co. All these Rube Goldberg arrangements risk feeding power back into the grid, especially at o'darkthirty when the power goes off and you're not thinking clearly.

And I'm no hypocrite - I do have a transfer switch installed by an electrician. All I have to do is roll the generator outside, plug in a gigunda size four-wire extension cord from the generator to the plug mounted on the outside of the house, and flip the appropriate switches on the transfer switch. Even half-braindead from just waking up I can do this - no thinking required. It does require the ability to add and subtract - the 4kw generator will not power the entire house but it does keep the essentials going, so I do have to turn off stuff (i.e., "load shed") if DW wants to run the coffee maker or her hair dryer.

An installed transfer switch is a one-time expense and there really is no good reason to not do it that way. Anyone who can afford a house can afford that. Also know that if you kill a lineman from being stupid and cheap you're wide open to criminal charges of manslaughter and of course a host of civil suits as well, all well deserved.

One other thought. Every line in the electrical code is there because somebody died (more likely lots of somebodys) doing what the code says not to do.

 

[youbet]

^^^^^

I agree a transfer switch is an excellent idea Walt. Although for single appliance applications (such as a furnace) it is possible to rig safe alternative methods that guarantee no power feedback to the power grid or danger to the home owner. But at only $85 or so, why not go with the xfer switch?

In your case, and why I refuse to try whole house or near whole house power generation with a portable gasoline generator, is that the storage of gasoline in adequate quantities is very dangerous without special equipment. If I decide I want to cover all or most of the house with a generator, it will be a natural gas powered whole house unit.

In the meantime, if not forever, I'm going with a small alternator (1,850 watts) which can either run the furnace or run the sump pumps and recharge the sump pump backup battery. For that, I store only five gallons of gasoline which would last for several days. Still not safe, but safer than storing and handling larger quantities of gasoline.

 

[MC Rider]

We bought a dual fuel gasoline or propane unit about 4 years ago. Have only run it on propane for "exercise", no power outage long enough to pull it out since we got it. Propane does not go bad, at least not any time soon. Gas does. I figure to just run a cord to power the fridge and some lights etc. Freezing is not an issue here.

 

[Telly]

You can buy a furnace transfer switch. Here is an example sold at Home Depot. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Reliance-Controls-Furnace-Transfer-Switch-TF151/202216476

I put one of these in some years ago, shortly after I got a Honda EU2000i generator. Solves the whole issue of the furnace problem, and it is easy and obvious to use. Works great.

On a related topic... I determined that running cords from a generator outside through window/door to inside was not a good idea wrt exhaust fumes and carbon monoxide.

So I installed a proper outdoor small hinged box on the side of the house with a male high-amperage twist-lock connector in it to receive a heavy-duty cord I made from the gen's output. The outside box connects via rigid conduit parts from the back of the outside box, to the back of a 4" square inside box that is flush-mounted. This 4" box has a industrial/hospital type receptacle mounted on it. It is two sets of 15A/20A duplex receptacles in one chunk. Both sets I wired in parallel. So I have 4 inside outlets to plug cords into. In use, I usually plug a low-wattage bulb that I keep a two-prong adapter (bulb base to two male prongs) into one of the upper outlets. So when I'm outside, I can see if the gen's providing power, it lights up a window close by. Also keeps the cord "patch panel" area well lit.

I call this setup a "Generator Wall Pass-Through".

 

[rk911]

Hire a licensed electrician to do it properly. The downside of do it yourself electrical work when not knowing what to do or all the code requirements is things happen. When unlicensed work not to code causes fires injuries etc. then insurance companies don’t pay. As an earlier poster said you can cause serious injury or death to people working on the power lines. I know everybody tries to diy to save money, but electrical work is not the place to do it.

this! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

we installed...or had installed...a whole house genny with automatic transfer swich. a year or so ago we had a 60-hr power failure. the $ spent on the genny were well worth it.

 

[travelover]

Maybe I missed it being discussed, but a less expensive alternative to a full blown transfer switch is an interlock that allows only the main breaker or a second power inlet breaker to be on at the same time. When I replaced my service box, I installed one made by Siemens, the box manufacturer, then added a twist lock power inlet box on the outside of the garage.

These interlocks can be added to an existing service box.

To only power the furnace, I’d just convert it to a plug in appliance as has been suggested. I’m not even sure of why code forbids this.

 

[NW-Bound]

To only power the furnace, I’d just convert it to a plug in appliance as has been suggested. I’m not even sure of why code forbids this.

+1 Or if it is even really against code.

 

[travelover]

+1 Or if it is even really against code.

When I had my furnace replaced, the techs said they had to convert it back to being hardwired. As soon as it passed inspection, I wired it back to a plug in.