Inappropriate Hugging?

[ShokWaveRider]

He needs to be called out.
Someone needs to step up and tell him ... "Hey, maybe relax on the hugging thing. It is a bit over the top".

YES, agreed, but by the recipient of the unwanted behavior, not some bystander.

 

[cathy63]

... I may say something, but I suspect it won’t change anything, it’ll just break up a regular foursome. We socialize with wives occasionally as well, so that will probably end as well. But I’m not comfortable with the status quo.

Just curious ... when you say "break up a regular foursome", how do you envision it ending up? The handsy guy leaves and the other three of you find a new fourth? Or your other friends stick with Mr. Hands and you are the one who gets drummed out of the group? Are the answers to those questions complicating your decision?

Also, assuming you have a wife, have you asked her opinion? She knows these guys and their spouses, so what does she say?

 

[Major Tom]

The recipient of unwanted behavior should make it known, if it does not stop then, that is a different story.

But in this case, the recipient is a young woman, who may not have yet developed the self-awareness, confidence, and social skills to deal with these sorts of unwanted behaviors. The fact that she is at work may make it even more tricky for her, depending on whether or not her employer is sensitive to these types of issues, and supportive.

 

[jollystomper]

Agree, shaking hands depends on the situation. Judgement call. But I may think twice now. I guess if the women offers her hand first it's ok?

As Charlie Brown would say, AAUGH!!!

I do not think it is that bad. It is just discerning the situation:
- Business occasion: okay, if others have shaken hands.
- Non-business occasion, stranger: if they offer, shake. If not, just smile, node and say hello.
- Non-business occasion, friend: shake. Or fistbump .

Given that covid and other joyful infections spread easily via hand-to-hand contact, and it being winter, it is probably easier not to shake, and it will not be seen as impolite.

 

[Affinity4Investing]

[MOD EDIT] I think that if one sees something inappropriate, they have a duty to say something - provided you're in a safe environment/situation to do so. Otherwise, I think it makes one arguably complicit in the act.

 

[RetiredAndLovingIt]

He's 73 with a short fuse and exhibiting what is clearly inappropriate sexual behavior. Could he possibly be showing early signs of dementia? If so, it will get a lot worse as time goes on and he loses all filters.

 

[jollystomper]

I never said I agreed with it. The recipient of unwanted behavior should make it known, if it does not stop then, that is a different story.

Americans are notoriously oversensitive to this stuff is all I meant.

The Council of Europe would not see this situation as being oversensitive: https://www.coe.int/en/web/gender-matters/harassment-and-sexual-harassment

 

[badatmath]

I do not think it is that bad. It is just discerning the situation:
- Business occasion: okay, if others have shaken hands.
- Non-business occasion, stranger: if they offer, shake. If not, just smile, node and say hello.
- Non-business occasion, friend: shake. Or fistbump .

Given that covid and other joyful infections spread easily via hand-to-hand contact, and it being winter, it is probably easier not to shake, and it will not be seen as impolite.

Agree just do your best judgement. It is not in the ballpark of weird either way.

 

[Gumby]

Agree, shaking hands depends on the situation..... I guess if the women offers her hand first it's ok? ....

That's the rule as I have always understood and lived it. If a woman extends her hand to a man, he may shake it. He does not extend his first.

 

[frayne]

I'd call him out on it and tell him it's inappropriate and if he didn't like it, that's just too bad.

 

[aaronc879]

This isn’t someone coming to see you that you are greeting however you feel is socially acceptable. This is a young lady at work. Do people in Europe hug their waitress, the bar tender . . .? I doubt it.

I would say it is different if it is a stranger compared to a regular who you have been friendly with for an extended amount of time. Did the young woman openly accept the hug, hug back, or back away. Big difference between those IMO. I don't consider age to be a factor as long as all are 18+. I think most of you are way too fast to call it sexual harassment when it could have just been a friendly hug that was mutually consensual and no big deal.

 

[RetiredHappy]

At our club, we (male and female) always hug each other when we see each other on the course and at the end of the round. However, our hugs are never full on body, just arms over each other's backs and some people give a light peck on the cheeks as well. It is nothing sexually offensive. However, if a dirty old man, as described here, gives someone a full on-body hug, I am sure lots of women here, staff or members, will raise hell and get the member suspended or expelled.

 

[pb4uski]

60 posts in less than 3 hours! I'm impressed.

 

[Car-Guy]

^^^^^
Almost viral for ER org

 

[disneysteve]

At our club, we (male and female) always hug each other when we see each other on the course and at the end of the round.

I assume you're talking about people who know each other and are on equal status - fellow players. OP is talking about a customer hugging a teen employee who is not a friend, family member, or colleague. Entirely different situations.

 

[ivinsfan]

I assume you're talking about people who know each other and are on equal status - fellow players. OP is talking about a customer hugging a teen employee who is not a friend, family member, or colleague. Entirely different situations.

Exactly... like a teenage employee and 70 plus old man are on equal footing....

 

[lucky penny]

Please say something immediately the next time you see it, like "Hey, knock it off, Bob -- not good." And maybe later, just to him, "She reminds me of my granddaughters." It's the right thing to do & it might make a difference. Saying nothing reinforces the view that it's OK.

 

[aaronc879]

Exactly... like a teenage employee and 70 plus old man are on equal footing....

He said 20-something, not an underage teen. What does age have to do with it if all are adults?

 

[mystang52]

Totally inappropriate and should be reported. If you don't feel comfortable confronting your friend, I'd reach out to management and bring your concerns to them. Customers sexually harassing their staff shouldn't be tolerated.


The girls "put up with it" because they're scared. That's how abuse works.

I did not read all of the replies. I'd adapt this response and tell your friend that if management heard about this they might accuse him of harassment and ban him.

 

[disneysteve]

He said 20-something, not an underage teen. What does age have to do with it if all are adults?

You're right. OP said 20-something. My mistake. But that makes absolutely no difference in this scenario. It is still completely inappropriate behavior.

 

[Aerides]

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

 

[Texas Proud]

I may well say something though I’m pretty sure it will break up my regular Friday golf foursome. I am pretty sure he’ll never forgive me for calling him out, but he’s totally out of line IMO, and I’m just not comfortable with that. She always wears tight clothes and tiny shorts, but that doesn’t give (old) men license to touch her IMO.

I have not read the whole thread yet but will throw this in and duck...


Why not ask the girl off to the side? She might not have a problem and I think you could read her even if she was being nice and said it was OK and it was not.

 

[RetiredHappy]

I assume you're talking about people who know each other and are on equal status - fellow players. OP is talking about a customer hugging a teen employee who is not a friend, family member, or colleague. Entirely different situations.

We hug servers and staff as well. Not different, other than we all avoid frontal contacts. We have 80+ yo men doing light hugs with everyone. Nothing dirty about it.

 

[easysurfer]

In the golf club, is he the only old man that engages in that behavior? Are there set rules on how customers/patrons should act?

Not condoning anything but answers to those questions would serve as a cue as is the issue more that individual or the environment.

 

[Exchme]

As for the other guys, all three have daughters and granddaughters BTW including the offender.

This is the approach that might work, ask him if he or his granddaughter would appreciate it if some old guy touched her like that.

He will no doubt reply that he was just having a little fun and the girl doesn't mind, in which case you need to tell him something direct like "you're wrong, you're acting badly and you know it".

It will break up the foursome, but this guy is a creep, so who cares. Not confronting him adds social pressure to the girl to let it continue, speaking up for her will help her understand that it's ok to be direct and tell people to stop it, even if it won't change the creep.